Talk:Lilka

BLP issue

Reiro recently removed Lilka's real name but his claim is inconsitent with BLP policies. Lilka is not private individual because Lilka made many self-promotional activities.

In 2019, She became an K-league ambassador. In February 2019, She became a cover model of Maxim Korea. In September 2019, she designed many merchandise to promote her.

Per WP:LOWPROFILE, Lilka is a public figure and high-profile individual.

On the other hands, Lilka's real name was mentioned in independent three reliable sources. In January 2022, Lilka was criticized because she applied for trademark which are possibly named after Lille. Because she stayed a year at Lille Catholic University as an exchange student, It can be viewed as trademarks on a geographical location. WP:BLPPRIMARY said that where primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source. Because Lilka intends to make other merchandise under her controversial trademarks, her real name should be public information to track the decision about her trademarks. Removing her real name results a significant loss of context.

Furthermore, Lilka intentionally mentioned her name in her internet broadcasting. In October 2021, Lilka showed her real name to viewers to prove non-existence of her boyfriend.

For these reasons, her real name should not be deleted. Horang2022 (talk) 08:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

On the other hands, Lilka intentionally published her birthday, birthplace, former occupation, former workplace and universities where she studied. Horang2022 (talk) 08:42, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Horang2022, she noticed that her broadcasts with personal information are deleted later, for her safety. She also told in Namuwiki that "suffering infringement of personal information." and "do not want to write them, including my real name."

In WP:BLPNAME, "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context.". But, sources you displaying do not show her information, except 5,6, and 7; they are generally not considered as reliable sources in South Korea, due to churnalism and small media.

I already met some IPs in Korean Wikipedia, that claimed this way, with distortion of right to be forgotten (Who does adapt that to person suffering stalkers?). And I cannot state in detail, there are several inappropriate claim, not only violate WP:BLP, but also general moral. Reiro (talk) 11:14, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Because information from independent three sources are backed by trademark records and the trademark records are discussed in one source, it became reliable secondary sources by WP:BLPPRIMARY. The third source is from a partner news site of Daum and give public or academic interests about intellectual property to publish her real name. Utagate is operated by Daily Game Cooperation which also operate Dailyesports, a partner news site of Daum and Naver. Media ssul, which is a former name of influencer dot com received Quality Certification from South Korean government. Actually, influencer dot com mentioned her real name at August 12, 2018 because she told her real name in joint brodcasting with Gamst at August 12, 2018. They are unrelated with churnalism.

Not only United states but also South Korean laws distinguishes high-profile individuals and low-profile individual. She is not private individual under US laws or South Korean laws because she made many self-promotional activities. In English Wikipedia. this distinction is mentioned in WP:LOWPROFILE and WP:PUBLICFIGURE.

Because the stalker was already specified, it is unrelated to her safety. the stalker already know her real name and there is no claim about the existence of another stalker. She did not removed or concealed her birthday, birthplace, former occupation, former workplace and universities where she studied.

Unlike pornographic actor(ess) or LGBT performers, her real identity and internet identity are not separated because she voluntarily published many her personal information to attract peoples and do not disguise during activity. Contrarily, she occasionally tells her real name in her broadcasting. Pornographic actor(ess) or LGBT performers can be discriminated in real life, but Lilka is not.

Because she voluntarily and openly published other personal information and occasionally told her name in internet broadcasting, she got responsibility on her information. Lilka's self-promotional activities increase this responsibility too.

Because some IPs in Korean Wikipedia did not talk about distinction of high-profile individuals and low-profile individual and the discussions at Korean Wikipedia was performed before the publication of third source at Jan 9, 2022, these are not applicable for English Wikipedia. Horang2022 (talk) 13:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

I am from South Korea, but I have never been heard Shinmoongo News and UTAgate Naver, Daum. And Influencer Dot Net also wrote a streamer's broadcast, not their original contents. They have less reliability and less boundary than WhatCulture. I was so worried that he abuses Korean sources are unfamiliar to English Wikipedian, deceiving them as if those sources are reliable.

According to WP:BLPNAME, "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context." No Korean major press, including chojoongdong, has included her name in news story, although she was broadly known as the victim of unfair contract and suffered by stalkers. So, whether she was reported nationally is the straw man fallacy.

Well, in Ko-wiki article, some IPs emerged a year ago, with that way.

• You: Lilka intentionally published her birthday, birthplace, former occupation, former workplace and universities where she studied.
  IPs :And how funny is it to erase the real name that can be confirmed from the secondary source and the primary source when Lilka has revealed his face, voice, job, birthday, and academic background?[4]
• You: Because Lilka intends to make other merchandise under her controversial trademarks, her real name should be public information to track the decision about her trademarks.
  IPs: In addition to the registration of intellectual property rights, the official registered media called influencer Dot com and Daily e-sports reporters from corporations such as Daily e-Sports have their real names directly on articles written by other officially registered media, and there are more than one independent article.[5]
• You:Not only United states but also South Korean laws distinguishes high-profile individuals and low-profile individual. She is not private individual under US laws or South Korean laws because she made many self-promotional activities.
  IPs:Is it an infringement of personal information that South Korea, which has a resident registration system unlike the United States, does not need to hide its real name to prevent identity theft?[6]

You have too many "coincidence" with IPs, just editing once or twice in Korean Wikipedia. Reiro (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

In addition, one of those IPs states Lee Gye-deok(이계덕)[7], the writer of "Shinmoongo News" (신문고뉴스) and " LGBT performer".[8] Is it also coincidence? Reiro (talk) 16:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, your claims are mostly based on argumentum ad hominem, which is a logical fallacy. Your opinions contradict each other because you mentioned Lee Gye-deok as the writer of "Shinmoongo News" and you said that you have never been heard Shinmoongo News. Because you actively participated in deletion reviews of Lee Gye-deok article in Korean Wikipedia for 8 years(ko:토론:이계덕/보존2, your claims contradict each other. Lee Gye-deok is unrelated with this case because he is not performer and did not use pseudonym or disguise like drag queens. Getting back to the point, influencers are recognized as public figures by major mass media of South Korea. Because Influencer Dot Com wrote a streamer's broadcast, their news at August 12, 2018 reflected her joint brodcasting with Gamst at August 12, 2018. Because Lilka is a non-private person and occasionally tells her name in occupation and three independent sources mention her real name, WP:BLPNAME is not applicable. Because you are Korean speaker, I recommend to read Journalism and Public Figures(언론과 공인) of Jae-Jin Lee(이재진) which was published from Hanyang University Press(한양대학교 출판부). Jae-Jin Lee is a Professor of Depeartment of Media Communication in Hanyang University who graduated Seoul National University. Per his article '이재진 (2013). 공인의 사생활 보도의 실제와 한계: 발레리 트리에르바일레와 빌 클린턴 사례를 중심으로. <언론중재>, 33(4), 6-13.'^Link(Reality and Limitations of Reporting on Private Life of Public Figures: Focusing on the Cases of Valerie Trierweiler and Bill Clinton) Jae-Jin Lee said that "공인이 누구인가에 대해서 연방대법원은 명확하게 정의를 내리지는 않았으나 이후 판례를 통해서 볼 때 공인은 공직자를포함하여 공적인 결정에 영향력을 행사할 수 있는 사회 인사들과 공중의 시선을 끌고자 노력하거나 미디어에 등장하여 널리 알려진 유명인을 포함하는 것으로 이해된다."(Federal Supreme Court did not clearly defined who are public figures, but public figures include people who can effect their public decision including public officials or any other celebrities who are known for trying to get public attention or appearing in the media by latter case law) and "연방대법원은 공인의 경우는 프라이버시 보호에 대해 일반인만큼 기대할 수 없다고 피력한 바 있다." Lilka is included in "공중의 시선을 끌고자 노력하거나 미디어에 등장하여 널리 알려진 유명인"(Celebrities who are known for trying to get public attention or appearing in the media) and public figure. This distinction is included in WP:LOWPROFILE. On the other hands, application of trademarks on a geographical location br others is a serious problem. So it give public or academic interests about intellectual property to publish her real name to track the decision about her trademarks. Horang2022 (talk) 07:03, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

There is Wikipedia, not WP:FORUM for the original report on who is public figure. You avoid to said that she is also famous as a victim of stalkers, and no major Korean press reveals her personal information, even Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation covering her problems on broadcast[9]. Even she is really public figure, it is not justified your poor-sourced personal information.

Shinmoongo news has just 818 subscriber on Naver, and UTAGATE is even not searched on major portal site, such as Naver or Daum. In addition, Influencer dot com is only write down other streamer's broadcast,[10] including the news story you displayed (according to you, it "wrote a streamer's broadcast"); this media is usually considered a questionable source -"a poor reputation for checking the facts, lack meaningful editorial oversight, or have an apparent conflict of interest.-" I show you that the news reporting that are not include her personal info[11]. It is Topstarnews (톱스타뉴스) too. You claimed that her trademark issue is broadly reported, it was just found by some chunalism internet news; Incite(인사이트), Topstarnews (톱스타뉴스), and Wikitree (위키트리).[12] They uses also Clickbait title. Reiro (talk) 14:54, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

References