User talk:Audacity

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Wikimedia Foundation

• Welcome to Audacity's talk page.
• Please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~).

This page is a free speech zone. Tell me what you really think. Do not remove comments of other users, even if you think they could be personal attacks.

Template:TestTemplatesSmall

Alas, there is no "replacement" for this template yet, my mistake. However, I would encourage the authors of this template to correct old templates (test1, test2, etc.) with the new forms of the template (uw-vandalism1, uq-vandalism2, etc.) to increase awareness of the new templates. However, some templates do not match up exactly, so some creative liberties will have to be taken to create the same template anyway. If there are any discrepancies, I would take it to the talk page of WP:UW. Hopefully that made sense. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 06:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I really have no idea on where to put the box. I've copied your message to the talk page of WP:UW, so we'll see where that goes. If I think of any pages where the template might be useful, I'll be sure to add it. Thanks for all of your work! If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 01:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

re:Nolan chart userbox

What would you think of making a userbox similar to User:The Thadman/Userbox/PolCompass, but for the World's Smallest Political Quiz? Λυδαcιτγ 01:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The formulae for the results would be a bit trickier, but I think it would be very doable. If I had the time nowadays, I'd mess around with it, but as of late I've been strapped. :-( Feel free to try messing around with my Political Compass template code toward this end, though. אמר Steve Caruso _(desk/AMA) 18:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:WarningsUsage

Yes, I am aware that it causes about 8 lines more space to be used. However, it also stops the table from overlapping with the rest of the page . At least in my browser, it was previously impossible to read part of the documentation text due to the floating table. --tjstrf talk 23:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the edit section button is still floating around someplace odd and it looks ugly. --tjstrf talk 23:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

DOB change on user page

FYI. I just wanted to inform you that I changed your DOB year from 1998 to 1988. The reason I did it is that you looked awfully young for someone born in 1998. I was not vandalizing your page. Chris 15:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I was looking at one of the DYKs that was done yesterday and I like to click on the history of the article's edit, then click on the userpage to see what they are like. That was how I saw your page. Chris 02:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Any science backing this?

Copied from Talk:Backmasking. Λυδαcιτγ 04:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The whole idea that running a message backwards would be comprehensible on even a subconsious level is a little difficult for me to get. Has there ever been any study about whether backwards messages can have a subliminal effect akin to that of, say, hypnosis? Or whether they can even be understood if, I don't know, repeated over and over? --Lenoxus 04:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've only seen pseudoscience, at best (example). I think that the failure of the Judas Priest lawsuit indicates that there is no hard evidence of that effect. Λυδαcιτγ 16:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

There's no science backing that people can perceive the message backwards; however, certainly some artists, (Tally Hall) have deliberately added backmasking to songs, obviously for artistic effect and not for the intention of subconscious control. If the backmasking is obvious enough, people can easily tell that the track IS backmasked, though they won't be able to understand what it means.

Thanks for responding. I guess, to rephrase my confusion, I have little more to express than my own awe that someone "thought of" this idea in the first place; to me, it's like saying that a message printed on the reverse side of an opaque sheet of paper will have a subliminal effect, because it seems humans are just as capable of reading that as they are of "listening backwards." --Lenoxus

While not wanting to give too much credibility to the subconscious influence theory, I wonder - why wouldn't a transparent or translucent piece of paper be a better metaphor? Λυδαcιτγ 20:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, it would. What still makes a "wall" for me (hence the "opacity") is the element of time. After all, it's not that hard to train yourself to read something backwards, even at the exact same rate as one reads forward, because the direction of reading is naturally arbitrary. But to "listen backwards" would require the memorization not only of phonetic sounds in addition to a kind of intrinsic understanding of the fact that imperfect articulation/recording means that a "perfect reverse" isn't the same as the "real thing", and varies considerably from one speaker/accent/etc to the next. --Lenoxus 04:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

But why do you assume the backwards sounds would have to be memorized? Couldn't your brain reverse them while listening, just as it would reverse the words in a book read in a mirror, despite having never seen the letters written backwards before? Λυδαcιτγ 21:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, an interesting counter-point... this is starting to look like a discussion for another forum; what do you suggest? --Lenoxus 02:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll copy everything from here on up to my talk page. Λυδαcιτγ 04:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

So, in response to your last point, I'd just have to repeat my point about time — Consider how much more difficult it is to, say, recite the alphabet backwards from only hearing it, but considerably easier when reading it, regardless of what alphabet you're talking about. --Lenoxus 16:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

But the alphabet takes a fairly long time to say out. If you just heard a few letters - "JSD" - it wouldn't be that hard to reverse them.

On the other hand, sound is extremely complex. According to Bitrate, your brain needs to hear four thousand bits of sound information per second to understand speech. So perhaps reversing a half-second-long sound in your head would be as difficult as reversing two thousand letters. Λυδαcιτγ 02:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I won't deny that what we need more of is science, but of course this point naturally raises questions about how comparable the human brain is to a computer. It's nice that neither of us has to defend a position, because I think I might have just supported evidence against mine. Hmm, I remember an old handheld electronic game thing called "Babbel" or something, produced by Mattel, in which the object was to guess what phrase another person had secretly whispered into the machine by imitating the reverse of the sound. The Babbel machine would then reverse the reversal attempt, and what you got would resumably resemble the original (but it usually took a few tries). Playing with this machine helped me realize the complexities and interesting qualities of reversed sound, and the fatc that one could design an entire code or song or whatever around reversals and phonetic palindromes (there really should be an article on those). --Lenoxus 01:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I found Babble, as well as a Java version of it, which you can try if you have a microphone.

Anyway, after all these hypotheticals, we're left with the simple observation that you have no idea what all the messages from List of backmasked messages are until you listen to them in reverse. Λυδαcιτγ 17:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll definitely make an article on phonetic reversal / phonetic palindrome (or you can). A lot of them are mistaken for backmasked messages, and it'll be good to be able to differentiate. This page has an excellent analysis of phonetic reversal. Λυδαcιτγ 21:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Userbox

Thanks for showing me that new userbox. Smart194 19:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: sigContract

Hello!

Please make sure you are using the latest code from here and put the code at the very end of your monobook. Then it should work. (Note that I have only tested it with FireFox). -- Where 18:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk page templates

Hi Audacity, Thanks for putting all the instructions on the template talk pages, but could I make a suggestions, that you leave a note on the bottom of each page. Just to say that for any discussions about said template, that it be left at WT:UTM. It's just I don't want a new editors to leave a comment and no-one sees it. Cheers ^{Khukri -} 08:20, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Any chance you can implement this as we've missed some discussion on the {{uw-v1}} template, if not I'll give it a go. Cheers ^{Khukri -} 22:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Spot on. ^{Khukri -} 07:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Supply and Demand

Hi, Audacity.

Do you have a source for the idea that prices for a product are "determined" by anything other than voluntary choices made by individual buyers and sellers?

Justin and I used the phrase "tend to vary" because the Law of Supply and Demand is not mechanical but is merely a rough description of how a free market works. Many additional forces come into play, and these should be explained in the body of the article.

Monopolies and cartels, protectionist import duties & subsidies, "barriers to entry", tax rates, etc. make the typical "free market" economy somewhat of a mixed economy. --Uncle Ed 15:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Could you please revisit the reason for renaming the article title and discuss the reasons for renaming the article. That's a pretty bold change, one that I think might be best to discuss before changing. I don't think one reference from the web is sufficient to make that change. Cheers Joel Kincaid 23:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Or did you propose the move and someone else actually moved it? Its hard to tell with the indents ... i look at the log diffs. Maybe I was a bit quick on the request, but take a look at the responses and see if you still support the move.....Cheers Joel Kincaid 23:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed I intended to allude to the bold policy. I've posted a long response on the talk page. To keep everyone informed, just respond there if you want. Indeed I do not want to be correcting all those links. It seems easiest to revert to the old article title and discuss. I'll post a comment on taxman's talk as well. Cheers Joel Kincaid 02:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Audacity how are you? Why did you remove my critisism of supply and demand graph's axis? My point is that it is inconvinient and should be changed. Also in your footnote you wrote 'demended' instead of demanded. Thanks kindly -scholodnjak

Your edits to User talk:Gracenotes

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Some of your recent edits, such as those you made to User:Gracenotes, have been considered

...hello :) This is Gracenotes^T §, responding to your kind note that you left on my talk page. I came across your talk page from informative spam that you left on the talk page of Elaragirl (talk · contribs) using AWB. I then went over to your user page, user talk page, etc, found that you were using the <code> tag, which is implemented in MediaWiki to have code stand out while writing about it in context Like this, although it's not useful for designing and pretty backgrounds, as is <tt>, an HTML tag from days of yore, etc.

I'm glad that you liked the randoms quote function. I changed "s" (which only goes up to 59) to U (which goes up to infinity) here to allow for quotes 61-116.

Finally, nothing much happens in #wikipedia-en-functionaries that I've observed, although it's a relatively new channel. There are 12 people, including me, that have access to it (2 of whom have never been in the channel); plus its two founders and lar, who is a channel operator. As I said, not that active, but like everyone else I hope it'll be a productive channel for discussion of policy and guidelines one day. Gracenotes^T § 07:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Backmasking

Sure, I'd help you out with the backmasking.

Just give me a list of songs you'd like me to do, and I'll see what I can get done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearingbreaker92 (talk • contribs)

I'll take a look at it tomorrow, (wensday). Also I dont have alot of these songs on here, and "limewiring" them would not be the best thing to do. Bearingbreaker92 | Talk 01:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Just my opinion, but I think the backwards and forwards should be separated. They could be put nicely into the chart, and would make it a lil easier on the listening end. Bearingbreaker92 | Talk 14:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

An example of two I have just uploaded File:Satan Spawn, The Caco-Daemon Backwards.ogg File:Satan Spawn, The Caco-Daemon Forwards.ogg, I dont think people would want to sit through a minute of that just trying to hear both messages. So that is why I think they should be split up into two. Bearingbreaker92 | Talk 14:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Mysteriously missing link.

The list of Portal:Music/DateOfBirth/August 5 has an entry on Damita Jo DuBlanc, which supposedly links to the recently created article, However, the "What links here" page for the artist fails to list the birthday page as one of the linked-to articles.

This behaviour, as far as I can tell, is unusual; any idea as to what might be going on there? --Cheers, Folajimi (leave a note) 19:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

P.S. When you said that you removed the list of dead people from the Portal:Music page, are you saying that there was a list of obituaries at some point? Or are you referring to something else?

I had to delete it.

I had to delete it because it only has one dot. If you look upside-down, you couldn't see a dot on top! That dot problem is rude for people. So no reverting, okay?
----Invader Soap^{Evil Jokes}_{Gir's Dog}February 10^th, 2007 (UTC)

Message from LegendaryBk

Thanks for your help , i think you are right maybe it is alittle phony reverses , anyway About the korn one i found on Wikipedia itself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_Transistor I Am Still new here anyway , i would appreciate it if you help me more and teach me how to edit Pages And to create a nice user page :) thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by LegendaryBk (talk • contribs) 11:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

AfD Progressive Bloggers

You have edited the article Progressive Bloggers. This article is currently being considered for deletion under the wp:afd process. You may contribute to this discussion by commenting here. Thank you.Edivorce 23:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Standard user greeting

I just noticed that the cut and paste greetings all go way off the right hand side of the page. I wasn't sure if you meant for them to do that or not. The way they are now, they are very difficult to read. I just thought you might like someone to bring it to your attention. The Transhumanist   03:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

re: Red link?

Hi Audacity, at the time it was coming up as a red link for me, but now it seems to be OK. Maybe it was a temporary problem in Wikipedia with links beginning with v: ? Madder 17:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Trimming down the Welcome template set

Trimming down the Welcome template set

Yes, we have been somewhat at odds with each other's purposes. Maybe we should discuss our respective positions, so that we can work on finding a common solution.

My position is the Welcoming Committee's pages suffer from bloating, chaos, and information overload - there are far too many templates, and the overall collection needs to be trimmed drastically. Your position seems to have been to preserve the existing collection.

I believe the lists can be reduced without losing the existing functionality. For example, we don't need tiny variations of the same template. Instead of having one with a message parameter and one without, we could combine the two by making the parameter optional (pipes used in parameter calls serves as a switch). We can set these up so that if the parameter is not used, it won't show up in the template.

The protected templates have gone stale, and normal editors are shut out from revising them. Since we are relying on substitution and not transclusion, there's no need for protecting the templates. The older ones, which are transcluded in many places should stay protected, but we should stop using them. I designed Template:Welcome! to take the place of Template:Welcome, Template:Welcome-m and Template:Welcomenh. If you don't like the border and background color, those can easily be changed or removed. The important revisions were the link updates, and the implementation of the parameter as a switch (mentioned above).

Concerning clutter and information overload, Template:WelcomeUsage circumvents the whole purpose of having a centralized Welcome templates page. We should simply provide a link to the central page, rather than have a boilerplate template duplicating its content all over the place. Therefore I've converted that template to a project tag pointing to the Welcoming committee's main page (and with a link to the template collection too).

Let me know what you think. The Transhumanist   22:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The above was rewritten before I discovered your reply on my talk page. I agree with you that the protected templates should be replaced/bypassed. But I also believe that non-protected templates should be revised and reorganized rather than be replaced. I also like your idea of a new naming scheme, but "Template:W" and "Template:WC" are already taken.

I suggest we start by you presenting a list of all the templates you would like to keep. Then we'll have a basis for discussion, and I can make suggestions as to how to pare the list down without losing any functionality. The Transhumanist   01:03, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

w-icon

What's the rationale for the wiki-code on the first line? The border isn't showing up. The Transhumanist   04:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you flip it, so the default is the border, and you use a parameter to turn it off? The Transhumanist   04:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

welcome redirects

As per a previous message, I'll restore all the old templates. And focus all changes on the new template set. The Transhumanist   04:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Tlx vs Tl

I'm not sure you're going to keep this one -- one of the reasons tlx came about was to show an expanded format, see the talk towards the bottom just this past 6th about problems with one browser. More to the point, see {{tlx/doc}} and the early line in the section "Documentation" (Caution: the top para is self-documentation, and tracking inside a noinclude block, not usage for the templates!) saying:

"...is a generalization of {{Tl|x}}, {{Tlp|x|y}}, etcetera with arguably better readable output. This depends on the browser, but too narrow uses of "{", "|", "}" in conjunction with links can be hard to read."

so I conjecture you may be fighting "City hall" <g>.

Maybe add a parameter "no" so define two uses inside tlx: {{{no|<tt>}}} ... tlx guts ... {{{no|</tt>}} and write a front end TlX which calls {{tlx|no= |...}} ? Then you can have your cake with the price of capital letter, and City Hall has theirs too. Best wishes! // FrankB 05:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

re: "Well, if someone really wants to keep it as it was I won't make a big deal. Still, I should think that if you're going to make a change for readability, you would make it for all the templates; and since {{[[Template:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]}} came first, it should be the trendsetter. But I can always do what you said for both tl and tlx, or make some new ones (tl2 and tlx2). Λυδαcιτγ 05:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)"

Well, tl is as basic as they come, and clearly YOUR young eyes don't have the issues Mine do! <G> I wasn't complaining... I'm an inclusionist. If someone finds a tool useful, then let them have it... they (we are all) are donating time, and most processors are sitting around for the data stream to feed them, not overburdened. Tokens go into their internal cache in all likihood, so should not be any kind of performance issue even if the page had hundreds of extra templates of similar size. Shrug. I was just letting you know that someone may be bitching about the change, or at least reverting it. Not my style, though personally I probably prefer the tt'd version--really haven't compared them side by side. As my concerns are with WP:TSP, I'm a tad annoyed that such an old template is showing so much edit activity. At the least it's not doing lowercase first anymore! That change went down in flames pretty quick (see the talk and the history). You may want to monitor the talk page though. If you're not up to anything in particular, a tool of mine for interwiki needs some votes on tfd. See {{w2c}} Cheers! I'm off again to Meta! // FrankB 05:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Good evening!

Hey - I've seen you around Wikipedia, but not actually came into contact with you so I thought I'd drop by. I see you're working on various WelCom tasks, eg Templates; would you like to share your thoughts on the Welcome Page that myself and The Transhumanist worked on?

We'd love some constructive criticism (or even compliments :) on how the page has progressed, and how it could be improved.

I hope to hear from you soon!

Kind regards,
Anthonycfc ^{[T • C]} 22:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

What's the hold-up?

What are we waiting for exactly? Nothing seems to be happening. I've started another project to work on while I wait. How long will your feature additions and approval seeking take? The Transhumanist   08:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, hi Anthony! Didn't notice you up there until just now. How's it going? I'm glad to see you're still involved with the WC pages. The Transhumanist   08:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, Audacity, I see now that you are out of town. I hope you have fun on your trip. The Transhumanist   08:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Ambigram???

So, if "Wiki" isn't an ambigram, you would turn upside-down and you won't see an another dot! Very Cheap!
----Invader Soap^{Evil Jokes}_{Gir's Dog}February 13^th, 2007 (UTC)