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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 189.146.133.166 (talk) at 11:55, 16 June 2023 (→‎Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2023: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

the most-disliked movie trailer on YouTube from a major Hollywood film studio

So, according to this List of most-disliked YouTube videos article, there are two movie trailers that gained millions of dislikes on YouTube, i.e. a Hollywood movie The Little Mermaid and an Indian movie Sadak 2. This fact should also be mentioned on this page too. Here are some external sources for referencing: Newsweek and Cosmic Book News. To those who cannot see the number of dislikes on YouTube, FYI: you can install a browser add-on (like for example "Return YouTube Dislikes" extension on Firefox desktop) to be able to view the (hidden) number of dislikes for each video. Gahipaj135 (talk) 02:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm opposed to including this dubious trivia. It seems mostly the lower-quality sources that focus on it, and they do not appear to be doing a good job of clarifying what they're actually measuring, since YouTube no longer has a dislike button. I think the list article you link is more affected by this issue, and I posted at the talk page there as well. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"YouTube no longer has a dislike button". This is incorrect. YouTube still has both like and dislike buttons and measures them both. What YouTube did is that it hides now the number of dislikes a video got. But viewers can still see how many dislikes a video got with the help of browser add-ons. Gahipaj135 (talk) 03:09, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ugh you're totally right! "dislike button counter" Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:16, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I keep hearing about the "huge" amount of dislike buttons on YouTube. How can you track all of those dislike numbers? Every time I click on a YouTube video it doesn't show the amount of dislikes it just shows the amount of likes. It's kind of hard to track numbers of dislikes on a YouTube video when the feature does not show the amount.Welcometothenewmillenium (talk) 06:28, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See an explanation here. It's really just made up numbers by a browser plugin. Mike Allen 13:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2023

Regarding Ursula's part under controversy; should be further clarified that the 1989 cartoon's appearance only was based on the drag performer. Original character inspiration (the sea witch from the original story) and voice acting from cartoon had nothing to do with people being upset that a woman got the role. 2601:740:8000:7B0:BA1:92C7:B707:33AB (talk) 16:26, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:26, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting proposal

SPLIT
Consensus to split the soundtrack section to a new article. -2pou (talk) 20:33, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


I propose that the section about the film's music and soundtrack be split into a separate page called The Little Mermaid (2023 soundtrack). The content of the section is only marginally related to the main article, and this section is large and well-sourced enough to make its own page. 223.178.86.76 (talk) 19:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support that split. Commonly done for these Disney remakes, and I'm seeing sufficient coverage of the soundtrack itself. I just added a template to the article to notify others of this discussion. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:35, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like a pretty uncontroversial request, but adding my support as well. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support this too DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 05:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd support that split as it is commonly done for Disney live-action remakes soundtrack articles. LancedSoul (talk) 08:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support splitting the article and creating a separate page for The Little Mermaid (2023) soundtrack. I think there is enough music and score for it to stand alone and have it's own article.Welcometothenewmillenium (talk) 03:43, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support this split. Much like others have suggested, this is commonly done amongst various movies, and there is sufficient information that can be discussed. Georgia.Kri1341 (talk) 23:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I also support the split. It's been done for many movies including other Disney remakes. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as it is a musical, so it should have it's own soundtrack. By the way, @223.178.86.76, can you create a draft?
TheCorvetteZR1(The Garage) 22:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is already a draft article. See here, Draft:The Little Mermaid (2023 film soundtrack). LancedSoul (talk) 22:13, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why hasn't this been closed yet? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:29, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Casting controversy": Part III

I renamed the section "Casting of Ariel" and moved it under the "Reception" section. It's literally the reception (of both sides, as it should) of the casting of Halle Bailey as Ariel. I thought removing the word "controversy" would make the section more neutral. It was undid and now I am here to open up a discussion on if "Casting controversy" is the right choice of wording or is it pushing a point of view. Mike Allen 01:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Casting of Ariel" is a straightforward improvement. The essay section WP:CSECTION captures my thoughts on this:

Sections or article titles should generally not include the word "controversies". Instead, titles should simply name the event, for example, "2009 boycott" or "Hunting incident". The word "controversy" should not appear in the title except in the rare situations when it has become part of the commonly accepted name for the event, such as Creation–evolution controversy.

Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The worst film ever made

This film received generally unfavorable reviews from critics and is considered to be the one of the worst films ever made. 2001:48F8:300B:3DB:2011:8BBD:F42F:6A77 (talk) 08:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

68% Rotten Tomatoes mean it's far from that bad Indagate (talk) 08:37, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 May 2023

Near the beginning where it discusses critics praised the performances of… Diggs’ name should be removed this is false. Even in the reviews listed he is not well praised. Take his name out of this section. It’s not cited and not true. Thank you. 2600:6C5E:5B3F:FA42:6CFF:47B5:AE3C:F485 (talk) 09:36, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done AnnaMankad (talk) 09:53, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mediterranean sea

I saw the film recently. Now I'm unsure if it's because of a different localization, but when I saw the film, the Prince, Eric, speak of Europe in a way in which makes it appeear as an outside part, at least to me. In the sense, there is a scene in which he's talking to his mother and he says something like "They use them in Europe as medicinals" which to me appeared to convey what I said above, that they aren't in Europe but in another part of the world. For this I'm asking if the Mediterranean sea is indeed really confirmed to be the setting of the film. 84.220.218.104 (talk) 22:55, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not to mention that the island they live in is clearly based on Caribbean culture and environment, not Mediterranean in any way. FunkMonk (talk) 01:32, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @FunkMonk - where are people getting the alleged "Mediterranean sea" location? I've only heard of that when people speculate on where 1989 film was set, because I don't think that film gave any clear indication of its setting aside from being possibly "generically European" and inspired by a Scandinavian fairy tale.
With that said, it's clear the remake has a Caribbean-inspiration, and sources state that the Pirates of the Caribbean, largely set in the Caribbean, provided major influences for the film, which is already noted in the article.[1] Clear Looking Glass (talk) 23:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was stated in the plot summary here, but seems to have been changed since I looked the other day. Could perhaps need a citation so it isn't drive-by changed back and forth. FunkMonk (talk) 23:12, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@84.220.218.104 the way I saw it, the way the locals speak alone signifies that it is set in the Caribbean Jaydenwithay (talk) 04:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, this section is a reaction to what the article here used to say, which has since been changed, not the film itself. FunkMonk (talk) 08:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Success at the box office

The wikipedia article says the film has been successful at the box office. I loved the film, but that is simply not true. It did okay in the US, but almost everywhere else it flopped. Bombed hard in South Korea, Bombed hard in China, Bombed hard in India and across Asia to be honest. In Europe it also disappointed, grossing less than comparable films like 'Aladdin' or 'Cinderella'. In Latin America it also did meh.

Outside of the US, the film grossed 68 million on it's opening weekend, which is considerably less than the second weekend of 'Fast X' which had 89 million. This means outside of the US, in most countries 'The Little Mermaid opened in second place.

According to most reputable Box Office trackers, such as Charlie Jatinder[2] it is looking like it will end up grossing between $500 million and $525 million worldwide when it's run is over. Keep in mind that out of that 500-525 million, a little less than half will go to theaters, and the rest goes to studios. Also, the budget was reported by Variety as $250 million production and $100 million marketing, for $350 million total budget. The conventional wisdom is that movie needs to make 2.5 times it's budget to be a success, and 'The Little Mermaid' is highly unlikely to reach that.

This largely means that by theatrical revenue it will not be profitable, and will need to rely on things like ancillary revenues and streaming to break even. This is in contrast to previous live-action remakes like 'Aladdin' 'The Lion King' 'Cinderella' 'Alice in Wonderland' 'Beauty and the Beast', which were profitable from just theatrical revenue.

For the time being, instead of just pretending The Little Mermaid is a success, I think the wiki should say how much The Little Mermaid has made, but without calling it a success, because it's unclear if it is a success yet. That could end up being a premature call. Just because it's being called a success by news publications and trades like Deadline or Variety, which want to keep their insider access to Disney doesn't mean it's actually a success yet. People don't want to hear this, but there's been nothing to indicate that 'The Little Mermaid' is successful at the Box Office yet, and we will have to see if it could be, but it isn't looking good so far given the extremely high budget. 73.246.35.189 (talk) 19:54, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Are you a box office analyst? Thanks for your opinion but content on Wikipedia must come from third party reliable sources. Mike Allen 20:20, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Here are some sources on 'the little mermaid' disappointing box office.
https://deadline.com/2023/05/little-mermaid-box-office-profit-loss-halle-bailey-1235383099/
https://www.thewrap.com/little-mermaid-fast-x-box-office-analysis/
https://screenrant.com/little-mermaid-box-office-opening-weekend-results/
https://www.thewrap.com/little-mermaid-box-office-opening/
Based off all this, it's clear that painting it as a Box Office success is wrong. 73.246.35.189 (talk) 21:24, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Be bold and fix it. Mike Allen 05:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2023

“ The film has so far performed poorly at the box office, grossing over $236 million worldwide against a total production budget of $250 million (excluding marketing and other costs).[2] Deadline Hollywood has estimated that the film will need to gross around $560 million worldwide in order to break-even.[6]”

This quote above is made up and not factually backed. 2600:1011:B18A:253B:C4D9:1411:BEE5:16E1 (talk) 12:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Question: The sources that have been provided do support the content in question; are you concerned about the reliability of those sources? Actualcpscm (talk) 13:04, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The sources do not say the film is performing poorly. 2001:8F8:172B:51C3:D598:51A1:ED5F:2BB3 (talk) 14:21, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with The Numbers?

Yesterday, international box office outside top 40 countries was a less than $200K. This morning it grows up to 70M, but also reduced to 69M during the day. What does it mean? 77.244.17.100 (talk) 15:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2023

Total Production cost needs to have an additional global marketing cost of $140 Million. It was not just $250 Million.

https://movieweb.com/the-little-mermaid-box-office-success/#:~:text=With%20a%20%24250%20million%20production,reach%20its%20break%2Deven%20threshold. 2603:6011:E500:76F0:DDE:FB0C:9DC9:963B (talk) 20:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. From my understanding, the total production cost does not include marketing. We already mention the marketing budget in the marketing section. Cannolis (talk) 22:29, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2023

Murilo breda (talk) 01:10, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done. I understand why you'd want to put this, but budget refers to the money that's put into the movie itself. Therefore, it does not include marketing costs. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0611/why-movies-cost-so-much-to-make.aspx Cocobb8 (💬 talk to me! • ✏️ my contributions) 15:49, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The total budget was nearly 400M, including marketing, and not 250M, as the page says

https://www.koimoi.com/hollywood-news/the-little-mermaid-disneys-musical-fantasy-in-a-dicey-position-with-a-breakeven-mark-as-high-as-400-million-including-250-million-budget/#:~:text=As%20per%20Deadline's%20report%2C%20The,mark%20stand%20at%20%24400%20million.

"Break even" amount

As per the source added above, I am seeing $400 million being floated around in sources:

Dateline: "anything in the low $400M global threshold and this fish is apt to be sinking to a loss of around $20M." [3]
Koimoi: "As per Deadline’s report, The Little Mermaid is an expensive affair, with its production cost being $250 million. While that’s already a huge amount, another $140 million has been spent on marketing. If made a total, the overall cost of the film is $390 million, making the breakeven mark stand at $400 million. Anything below this figure would be considered a loss." [4]
MSN: "Nevertheless, if its worldwide earnings fall below the modest threshold of around $400 million, this film may incur a loss of approximately $20 million, causing it to struggle financially." [5]

Sources have also mentioned higher amounts:

Screen Rant: "The Little Mermaid Needs At Least $500 Million At The Box Office" "The general rule of thumb is for a movie to earn back at least 2.5 times its budget" [6]

I understand this is a sensitive topic, but we can't not include what financial experts are saying here based on the amount spent and how the industry works. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:23, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Historical Accuracy"

Writing as someone with a history degree, I think that bad-faith-acting, concern-trolling racists confuse (whether stupidly or maliciously) "historical accuracy" with "adherence to the original materials" (Andersen's fictional story, which by definition can not be "historically accurate"). I think we wikipedians should not accept racists' framing; and should reword "does not adhere to historical accuracy" to "does not adhere to Anderson's original materials". Erminwin (talk) 16:54, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How does this relate to improving the article? If you suspect editors of blatant racism then I would bring this up at WP:ANI. I don't think this is the right place to debate about the origin's history as we rely on reliable sources that give a balanced point of view. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:04, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I did not "suspect editors of blatant racism"; I stated that editors "should not accept racists' framing"; however, I acknowledged that I should have stated that, in almost all likelihoods, wikipedia's editors only did so inadvertently. EDIT: I regret having not done so in my original posting.
My point is this: to cover up their racist motivation for hating the Black little mermaid, racists actually wanted to allege that the little mermaid being Black is not found to Andersen's original materials, but racists (out of either stupidity or malice) confuse 'adherence to Andersen's original materials' with 'historical accuracy' and consequently feign concerns about 'historical accuracy'.
The two sources cited (Rolling Stone article, Vox article) for the statement "a Black mermaid does not adhere to historical accuracy" actually criticize racists for feigning concerns about 'historical accuracy' to clumsily cover up their racism. Erminwin (talk) 16:24, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2023

It should be added the 140 millón of marketing costs of the movie, which has been one of the highest in the last years. 189.146.133.166 (talk) 11:55, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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