Talk:Djondjon

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Alt spellings

Savvyjack23, the alt spellings dyo-dyo, djô-djô, and diondion are listed in the first reference of the page (Nieves-Rivera, Ángel M. (February 2001). "The Edible Psathyrellas of Haiti" (PDF). Inoculum — Newsletter of the Mycological Society of America. Vol. 52, no. 1. Retrieved 26 November 2015.). This is a periodical written by professional mycologists (Mycologia) and is a reliable source. Nowhere on the page is http://www.dadycherry.org mentioned, so I am at a loss as to where you are pulling that from (other than that it is one of the top results on google, maybe?). That aside, it seems your decision here is based on your personal knowledge, whereas I have a reliable source. As such I would like to add them back. KrakatoaKatie, as the one who deleted the redirects, I'd like to recreate those too. Discant X 05:54, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

DiscantX, while a professional source I urge you to find verifiability first. Professionals can make mistakes as well. I've searched in multiple languages and have yet to find one. Are we supposed to base all these alt spellings on a single source? Can we really say these are common usage for inclusion in the lead? I highly beg to differ. Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:49, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For instance, what language is "djô-djô?" The standardization of Haitian Creole was young (1979), and made co-official in 1987. Various spellings of words might have been used for many names etc. Perhaps author Delbeau (1990) << (Nieves-Rivera, Ángel M. sources this author in passage), was using an early spelling or original work on his part written according to how it sounded, which may be the case. In any case, I am making a formal challenge of these alternative names in said source. Even modern English words, we do not write the archaic name in the lead (let alone in bold) but perhaps rather in the history section that can all be verified. Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:52, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Where Delbeau found these names is a good question, but unfortunately there isn't a copy I can find on the internet and it's doubtful I could find a print copy. What I can tell you is that Wikipedia is not the place to question credible sources. If you can find a source that contradicts this one, or are suggesting that we should not take Delbeau to be a credible source (in which case, why? Nieves-Rivera, Ángel M seem to have.) then we must go with it. As to it being a single source, I managed to find, for example, another paper, A VÁROSLIGET GOMBÁIRÓL, that mentions "dyo-dyo," and one, Affricates in Haitian Creole: a new solution, that mentions djô djô without the accents. The relevant text for the latter can be found in the description of second result of this Google Scholar search:

I propose then the /tj/ /dj/ phonemization with the respective allophones [tsj] [5], [dzj]
[3]. Examples: /tja'tja/ [c"a'ca] [tsja't8ja] ' maracas' /tjo'nsl/ [co'nsl] [t86'nel] ' parasite'
/'djab/ [( 3ab] ['d*jal>] 'devil' /'djo''djo/ B6'36] [dzjo'dzj6] ' mushroom'...

Affricates are a beyond my expertise of language, but it does appear there next to "mushroom." Point being, these forms, though not necessarily common, do seem to appear out there in the wild.

If you want to move them to a different section then I'm fine with that. The issue with that is that presently we don't know more about the usage of these variants, so there is not much to write about them other to say that they are alternatives. I don't see how that would fit into another section. Discant X 08:47, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem restoring these to be taken to WP:RFD instead, if you'd like. Katie^talk 12:15, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Good find. However, "A VÁROSLIGET GOMBÁIRÓL" (which is also in Hungarian, not that it matters) is a "secondary source" citing the findings of Nieves-Rivera, Ángel. As for the other archive, I couldn't open up the article. Out of the alt names, I've only been able to really verify without a doubt "dion dion" or "diondion," (both seldomly used in its own right) which is actually a communal section of Haiti too. As of right now, there is no way these alt names can make the lead, based on a sole primary source. It is also clearly not WP:COMMONNAME either, which is why you named the article djon djon. To list these name next to it could infer common name, which is simply not factual enough. Historically wise, where do these words come from? Is it a misspelling? -- a early form of usage for a language not yet standardized? etc. I wouldn't know where to place them. Savvyjack23 (talk) 08:51, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]