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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mr d8a (talk | contribs) at 14:04, 20 April 2007 (→Tru Calling vote). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Criteria

How much time travel does a series have to contain before it qualifies for this category? Some of these series are hardly "about" time travel, and I can think of several that only have time travel in one episode... Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 21:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Some other editor created this category and had started to add television shows to it. I wrote up the description based on what shows had already been included. So the category currently includes shows that may have had only one instance of time travel in them (like Babylon 5 having a single incident in two episodes separated by a season). Do you want to make a more stringent criteria? I'll let you start. Val42 23:16, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A single incident through a whole series probably would not qualify, unless, as in the case of Babylon 5, it clearly underlies the whole series. Babylon 5 had the one occurrence, however, had it not occurred, Sinclair would not have become Valen, helped the Minbari and Vorlons destroy more Shadow ships, and resulted in the cessation of hostilities by Minbar against Earth. The time travel was crucial to the setting of the series. If time travel occurs twice or more in a series, each being its own event not caused by or connected with the other, then it begins to become a series in the category, although it might be marked as minor. Then, if one character has regular ability or access to time travel capability, like Jeannie or Favorite Martian, then it definitely qualifies. Then, there are TV shows built around time travel: Time Tunnel, Voyagers!, Quantum Leap. GBC 20:21, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I consider it to be unethical to remove another's inclusion on a Talk page but I must *strongly* insist that you remove this entry. Your point is a good one but it can be made without such massive, unmarked spoilers. A new fan of Babylon 5 reading that entry would have massive portions of the story and many of the major twists ruined for them. Euchrid 07:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I started writing the following before GBC had posted his comment. My comments are still relevant but would have been different had I read his comments beforehand. Rather than revise my comments, I'm just putting in this explanation.
There has been significant discussion on the Babylon 5 talk page regarding how much time travel should be in a series before it belongs in this category. I invited them and others who are watching other series that are questionably about time travel to join the discussion here.
Now, to the discussion of what qualifies for this category: First, if there are series that are excluded because they don't meet whatever criteria we place on them, I think that we should create a category like "time travel television episodes". If there aren't separate articles about each individual episodes, then this new category should be added to the main article. This will split whether the series is about "time travel" or has episodes featuring "time travel".
Second, what qualifies as "time travel" for purposes of this category? (I think that for purposes of this discussion, we should use the term "time travel" for whatever qualifies. The category description can be rewritten after we come to a consensus.) "Time travel" includes at least non-standard, non-relativistic travel through time (hereafter called "travel through time") such as Doctor Who (unlimited and unrestricted), Seven Days (backwards exactly seven days on Earth, w/exceptions) and Tru Calling (24 hours). I think that it should include series in which allow communication through time such as Mirror, Mirror. I think that it should also include series where time travel set up the initial situation(s) that they have to deal with such as It's About Time or Phil of the Future.
Beyond this, what portion of the episodes should involve "time travel" in order to qualify. Doctor Who is undoubtedly a time travel series. Each story consists of three to seven (sometimes more) episodes beginning with travel in the Doctor's time/space machine. Each story may also, but not necessarily, have time travel internally, so the percentage of "time travel" episodes may be as low as ten percent. But it could be argued that this qualifies under my second premise, time travel gets the Doctor (and optional companions) in to the situation. "Twilight Zone" and "Outer Limits" certainly had quite a few episodes that featured "time travel", maybe five percent. What about some other examples. Let's work it out by trying some definitions then try some shows that we think should be inside or outside of the category. Val42 20:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Another series with only two incidents of Time Travel is "Lost In Space" - both in the third season - "The Time Merchant" and "Hostile Planet". Although "Return from Outer Space" resembles a time travel episode, it was simply a very outdated small village that hadn't updated to the times. Gcapp1959 20:39, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think you can summarise "time travel" simply as the movement of objects, energy and/or information to/from the future (other than via the normal passage of time) or the past – this definition includes knowledge of the future. Series that are simply set "in" the future (or past) don't count, since they just define their own "present".
I think it's an obvious suggestion, and a necessary one, that there should be two categories – but I don't see any need to work out how much of a series concerns time travel. Perhaps there are some examples that I haven't thought of, but series either throw in time travel now and again or are instead obviously based on the premise that time travel is not only possible but is an expected part of most stories.   — Lee J Haywood 21:21, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've created a list (below) of the series that I think should be removed from this category. I'm making the distinction that a series where, for most episodes, the story stands by itself, without specific mention of time travel, is not a time travel series – even where the current situation is affected by time travel in other episodes. Also, I think that series where, for example, a character from the future is "stuck" in the past/present should be in this category, given their knowledge of the future, etc. Please feel free to amend this list directly and sign your changes accordingly. If no changes/comments are made for 5 consecutive days, I plan on removing the category from the articles listed. Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 22:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like your qualifications result in the same dividing line as the qualifications that I suggested. I still suggest that another (different) category be created that includes shows with at least one episode that has time travel, but are not about time travel. Val42 03:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The dividing line works for me, too, but I don't see the value of creating a second category. It may be better to make it a list, instead. A list would offer you the opportunity to provide context for each of the shows while avoiding the creation of an overly-specific category that would likely be nominated for deletion. - EurekaLott 04:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, a list like you describe would work for me. Val42 06:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We need an agreed name for the new list article (to avoid having to move it later). I suggest "List of television series featuring time travel". I suspect that some people might want to list individual episodes within each series, however.   — Lee J Haywood 21:36, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer "List of television series that include time travel". The descriptions of the time travel occurrences for the listed shows could include links to specific episodes, if separate articles exist. Also, when the questionable articles are removed from the category, its description will need to be rewritten. - EurekaLott 01:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the above - about is too specific, and hard to define. However, what about the proposed category entry for television series that reference time travel? These follwing entries should be included somehow.Ck lostsword 18:38, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've created the new list as we agreed, but it's been immediately listed for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_television_series_that_include_time_travel.   — Lee J Haywood 22:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria, a second time

From the above discussion and below, we pretty much agreed on the shows that should and should not be included in this category. The line was basically drawn based on a series meeting any of the criteria that I had set forth above. But just today, Planet of the Apes was removed from the category based on (admittedly) the weakest of my three criteria, the third one. I'm not sure that we actually agreed upon this third criteria, so it is not in the category description, which is probably why "PotA" was removed. I also just thought of a fourth criteria that I've also added. So that we can discuss (mostly) the third criteria again, here are the criteria by which a series qualifies to be in this category:

  1. Physical travel through time of a person, persons, object(s) or any combination
  2. Communication through time, visually, auditory or both
  3. Where physical time travel has set up the initial situation
  4. An artifact (used in the context of most episodes) allows certain knowledge of the future

If we eliminate the third criteria, then not only does "Planet of the Apes" go, but so does "Phil of the Future" and "It's About Time". It would also be debatable if "Doctor Who" should remain since most of the (what we in the U.S. would consider) episodes don't involve time travel.

Also, the fourth criteria firmly establishes "Early Edition" as part of this category. Should it? I mean two things: Is this fourth criteria necessary to put "Early Edition" in this category? (I think that the second criteria does this.) Does "Early Edition" belong in this category? (I think that it does.) Val42 00:28, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My reasoning for keeping Doctor Who has nothing to do with setting up the initial situation, but instead meets the criteria I stated previously about knowledge of the future. Admittedly it isn't clear from the series if the Doctor knows anything about the future, or if he is so busy affecting the course of history that any future he has seen has become irrelevant. I realise (now that you've mentioned it) that most episodes apparently rely on neither time travel nor on knowledge of the future. For Planet of the Apes, the humans have actually landed in the distant future, not the past – so there's no knowledge of the future involved. So, personally, I would drop your third criteria but you're welcome to give reasons for keeping it. Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 10:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For "Planet of the Apes", the travel is forward and could have been because of relativistic time-dialation. So, you're right, it shouldn't be in this category. Val42 05:08, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that we are in full agreement here. I have no problem with series with forward time travel being included, but it would have to be a significant part of the series for it to be "about" time travel – not just setting-up the initial conditions as you have suggested, which is not covered by my criteria list below.   — Lee J Haywood 14:20, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for adding my signature; sometimes I forget. Maybe, instead of necessarily working on criteria at this point, we should work on what we consider included and not. After that, we can work on the criteria again. I think that those currently in the category should be in there. But "It's About Time" and "Phil of the Future" would be on the border. I think that they fit because they both have time-travel that sets up the initial situation. But they may also be helped because the time travel in both cases is backwards. What do you think of these two? Val42 16:29, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like to comment on series I haven't seen, but I think that Phil of the Future is clearly quite dependent on knowledge/technology from the future. The other series seems to be a good example of the script writers deciding to manage without their original premise – in this case the first series belongs in this category (knowledge of the future) but the second might not, unless we accept that knowledge of the distant past – the caveman lifestyle – can be as important as knowledge of the near future?   — Lee J Haywood 20:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Following on from the comments above, I have reworded my original criteria to be suitable for inclusion in the summary of the category article itself (see below). It may be necessary to change the use of the word "all" at a later date if there is a time travel series where a few individual episodes, or just one, manage without time travel somehow. Please discuss your objections before I put the text in. Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 22:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Series are included in this category if all episodes include some form time travel, and also if at least one character has some knowledge of the future or the distant past.
  • Series that are simply set in the past or in the future are not automatically included.
  • In this case, time travel is defined as the movement of physical objects, energy and/or information to/from the past or the future (other than via the normal passage of time).

Series that reference time travel but are not "about" time travel

This is a list of television series that have been considered for inclusion in this category (because of time-travel incidents), but have been removed from this category. These television series have been listed here to state reasons for their exclusion. If you disagree with one of the entries in this list, please put your comments under a heading for that series. Note: Some of these series have since been moved to the list of television series that include time travel.

My Favorite Martian

at least five episodes or episode pairs of "Martian" deal with time travel, and it figures in a minor way in a sixth episode to change events of the preceding few hours. GBC 22:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe so, but it looks like the series ran for almost 3 years with over 100 episodes. If only half a dozen episodes dealt with time travel then, sorry, but it is not a time travel series. It's not "about" time travel, it's about a Martian, and I guess that the majority of episodes have nothing to do with time travel at all. Lee J Haywood 23:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Say what?

"Lois & Clark" is a time travel series? Since when? And how do you leave out "Timecop" & "7 Days", which obviously are? Trekphiler 03:10, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since the character Tempus showed up, courtesy of H.G. Wells who had built a time machine. Clark later constructed one to follow Tempus and Wells (Tempus' hostage) into the past where Tempus was trying to destroy Clark as a baby. Gcapp1959 03:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Lois and Clark..." is already listed above. Timecop doesn't current have an article for the TV series, so the series itself cannot be given a category yet. "7 Days" is actually called "Seven Days" and is already in the category.   — Lee J Haywood 19:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Felicity

The last six episodes of Felicity dealt with time travel in a pretty major way... Probably about as seriously as Lois and Clark. --DDG 22:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.

The article for this series does not seem to indicate any time travel. Has anyone seen it, and thus decide if it should be moved to the list or remain in this category? Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 17:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, this show doesn't belong in the category but on the list. Val42 20:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Red Dwarf

Should Red Dwarf count? I think it involves time travel as a major plot feature. Unless my maths is off (it probably is, but hey) there were 52 episodes made, and I think 7 of them involved time travel (Stasis Leak, Backwards, Timeslides, Rimmerworld Out of Time, Tikka to Ride and Ourobouros), plus Pete and The Inquisitor featured similar technology. That's not a high percentage, but Ourobouros revealed that the main character's existence was dependant on time travel (I'll say no more bearing in mind Euchrid's comment on spoilers), so it is quite important. Does that count? 21:34 18 Feruary 2006

This category has been designated specifically for series that rely on time travel for almost all, if not all, episodes – the top of the article says... "For other series that include occasional references to time travel, see list of television series that include time travel" – if you go there you will find specific Red Dwarf episodes. Also, please note that Red Dwarf is listed in the section above, as a series that does not belong in this category. Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 21:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Adventures of Tintin

The Adventures of Tintin (TV series) gives details of all of the episodes, but searching for the word "time" in each one didn't indicate any obvious time travel to me. Can anyone confirm that time travel occurs in the TV series? Also, this series will need moving from the category to the list... Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 09:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed this series, given the lack of response here and the subsequent addition of this programme (by someone else) to the list.   — Lee J Haywood 08:46, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strange Days at Blake Holsey High

I think I've only seen the first season of this series, possibly the second, but not recently. From what I recall, very few of the episodes were either about travel or involved people and/or information from the future. The series was predominantly about strange physics caused by the wormhole. In this respect it is fundamentally different to, say, Doctor Who which focuses on someone who is both from another time and always uses a time machine to travel around. I think it would make more sense to list the episodes of Strange Days at Blake Holsey High in the List of television series that include time travel that are actually about time travel, or affected by it, even though this is harder to do. Is there any justification for saying that it's actually about time travel that I'm missing? Thanks. — Lee J Haywood 20:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I agree with you. Would someone who has a good summary of the episodes make the list that goes in the List of television series that include time travel article, then remove this article from the time-travel category. Val42 05:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tru Calling vote

I think that the individual episodes of the series should be removed. Any disagreement?D8a 19:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the right place to ask, you should use the discussion page for List of Tru Calling episodes. You would also need to give convincing reason for deletion.  — Lee J Haywood 07:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, actually, it belonged here. This category page had listed each of the TruCalling episodes individually. Since none of the other shows listed did this, I thought it was an abnormality, but since I wasn't familiar with the show, I wasn't sure, that is why I called for a vote. Apparently, someone else agreed and removed the individual listings.D8a 14:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's very weird. I know that at one time there were individual listings for the TruCalling episodes in this category and now I can't find any proof of that.../shrugD8a 14:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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