Talk:MDS International

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"Legal Problems" section

I'm removing the Legal Problems and associated sections. It appears to discuss a patent disagreement with some small company, and having half the article about it appears to be undue weight. Please cite major stories in mainstream news sources confirming the importance of any legal case. Thanks! Weregerbil 12:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

See your talk page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.109.95 (talk • contribs)

Please let's discuss it here instead.

Companies are often involved in legal cases. Making this article mostly about the legal case is undue weight, unless that legal case can be verifiably shown to be a defining characteristic of this company. Until such a time, the legal case should not be a major issue in the article, along with purpots to provide and This page are LIES MADE BY MDS AMERICA junk. Please do not turn Wikipedia into a battleground or a vehicle for attack. Thank you. Weregerbil 10:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Weregrbil thanks for your comments. I believe there is enough information here to be verifiable and that this law suit has become THE defining characteristics of this MDSI company. By following the PACER links (People am prohibited from supplying the documents.) one can verify this and the links are placed in the article.64.134.109.95 10:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Those are court documents that do not verify the importance of the case, aren't they? Any external reliable sources? Weregerbil 10:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)64.134.109.95 10:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

No sorry these court documents specifically address the establishment of a new service in the US. There are many many links around the Internet about the significance of MVDDS and MDSI. I will flesh out the article now. See http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=772&wit_id=212864.134.109.95 10:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

So has this been widely covered in news and other independent third party sources? The "contempt of court ruling" section is the largest in the article; if that is a major legal battle then it should be easy to find plenty of sources that discuss it. Randomly picking and bolding sentences from court documents without any sources constitutes original research, I think. Weregerbil 10:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

No Weregerbil, the ruling has been low key up until now. The contempt of court ruling has just been released to the public and not picked up by the press (yet). iunless one of he parties bring it to the attention of the press it will not be "news." But it is very significant info to anyone in the MVDDS market. I am adding content to the article now64.134.109.95 10:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

So we are in agreement this is unsourced and cannot be verified using reliable sources? Weregerbil 11:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand. The PACER site is as reliable and verifiable as anything. I have reviewed your links to reliable and verifiable and the ruling is both. How is this not fulling the criteria fo both? 64.134.109.95 11:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Can the importance of the legal case be verified using neutral reliable third party sources? Weregerbil 11:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The "Paper companies" section

Any sources? Sources for the importance of these companies? Sources for the claimed motivation of creating the companies? Weregerbil 11:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I am adding as we speak but the reference provided show the motivation. Please follow the links. 64.134.109.95

Which reference is that please? The section in question has no references at this time. Weregerbil 11:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I though they were in links. I will remove that motivation.

Is there some reliable source that discusses those companies and why they are encyclopedically relevant? Weregerbil 11:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The "Results of Court Case" section

Is there some reliable source that documents the events in this section, and verifies that they are indeed results of the case? At this time, the section is completely unsourced. Weregerbil 11:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC) I will try and provide sources.

This is not going into a very good direction

This article is a mess of unpublished synthesis of published material. Is it possible to find reliable sources that discuss the whole issue, instead of Wikipedia conducting slanted original research into the importance, reasons, and reprecussions of a court case? I think we need pretty impressive sources before dedicating three quarters of an article to a lawsuit.

Incidentally, someone removed {{unreferenced}} {{notability}} tags from the article. As of now, I'm not sure the article fully explains why this 6-person company making 10,000 EUR/year is encyclopedically notable in the first place. Weregerbil 11:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Purports

Sorry I missed that one in the company bar. Thanks.64.134.109.95 04:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Legal sections and other changes needed

After a complaint received to WP:OTRS, I've removed the section on legal troubles since it provided no references. The contempt section provided sources to primary documents, which are not acceptable sources. Please see our policy on verifiability for more information.

Currently the article contains a great deal of information that is only referenced from material produced by the subject of the article. More references from third party sources are needed and more material should be added to the article to balance the large section about lobbying.

Please make sure that any further information added cites reliable sources and keeps the article inline with our policy on neutral point of view. Shell ^babelfish 08:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the history of the article, there has been an attack angle in this article, starting from the preferred version of the original creator of the article. Appears there is a legal dispute between this company and another, resulting in some mud slinging here...^{(With all due WP:AGF.)} The lack of third party sources makes it hard to describe the legal case in balanced terms. Or even verify the encyclopedic importance of the legal case. There aren't even sources that describe how this 6-person 10,000-EUR-revenue company passes WP:CORP in the first place. As it is, it is {{db-company}} material. Weregerbil 10:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There is no assertion of notability. Please let me know if there are objections to an A7 speedy. --Fang Aili ^talk 13:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

There is an ongoing deletion discussion, but as of yet, other than a brief spurt of media attention in 2001 there seems to be little that would qualify this company under WP:CORP. I wouldn't object to a speedy.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shell Kinney (talk • contribs) 22:42, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

Please remove all our Brand MDSinternational are use by MDS america all text inside are made by MDS america, I have change a minimum to make right but every day again somebody add false informations. our company WEB site are www.mds.fr all about us in Wikipedia are false or truncated informations made By Kirkpatrick Machrino the CEO omf MDSA or also Wizard..... the CTO of MDS America

Thank you to remove all .

Jean-Claude Ducasse CTO

• Having finished a review of the sources provided in the article, I found that little to none of the information in the article was actually contained in the sources. Because of this and the company's complaints I have stubbified the article. Please make sure when adding information to the article that you provide a reliable source and do not add information that is your personal knowledge outside the scope of what the sources provide. Please let me know if I can help explain any of the Wikipedia policies involved in this incident or answer any other questions on how to write an article. Thanks! Shell ^babelfish 22:30, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

From my discussion page from you SHell

I would appreciate it if you could remove the personal attack from your user page. Per our policy, attacks of that nature are forbidden. Thanks. Shell babelfish 04:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

But the above unsigned comment stands huh? WizardOfWor 12:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

What is this?

I thought the admins were supposed to be unbiased. It seems that my review of what has happened here is that jeancluduc started vandalizing pages, Doing multiple reverts, and making numerous legal threats. As I followed his "contributions" what I see are rants and personal attacks like the one above and the one that was on WizardOfWor's user page (since removed). I see almost constant censorship, warnings, and actions against, what at least from the outside, appears to be the less egregious side, althogh both sides seem to be pretty bad.

Why is a Wikipedia admin picking sides? Why isn't the org doing more to over see this type of thing?74.225.165.44 12:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought to provide an example. Here on the page discussing the deletion of this article a [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion/MDS_International/ post] was placed accusing Admin Shell of being partial to one side. While I agree that this comment is not so pertinent to the deletion discussion, the most basic rules of impartiality would dictate that Admin Shell not move this to an obscure location. There are other Wikipedia Admins who could do the same.

However not only was it moved by the person it accused; there was no link placed so that the user community could easily find it. This impinges the motive even more. At best, it was an oversight, but it smells to me like picking sides especially given the trail of Shell VS WizardOfWor. 74.225.165.44 13:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Campaigns against rouge admins are common, and as far as I can tell, pretty systematically ignored by everyone else, and thus mostly a waste of breath. Just FYI. Happy editing! Weregerbil 13:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Wacky comments

So we are reduced to a discussion from a pathological liar and a rogue Admin. If there are actually people who are reading this and contemplating a system purchase, place a note on my talk page and I will supply the number of "customers" of MDS International. After your dicsussion with the people who have had a "system" built by this company you canlet Wikipedia of the service they are providing the public hereWizardOfWor 20:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Please understand that personal attacks are absolutely not allowed on Wikipedia. Your positive contributions are appreciated; comments such as "pathological liars" may get you blocked without further warning or discussion. Thank you. Weregerbil 22:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Weregerbil, in answer to the personal attacks of Mr Harold Kirpatrick alias WiZardOfwor it is easy to see our WEB site www.mds.fr and to mailto us and also to download the official TM and patents of MDSi http://www.mds.fr/news/Press%0Release%20MDS%20April%202006.pdf JC Ducasse MDSI CTO.

Also on the MVDDS acronym subject again by Kirpatrick of some appropriations please consider that MVDDS for ITU and Europe are not the same acronym signification and concept (To the best of our knowledge, the Hypercable® system is the only MVDDS Multipoint Video & Data Distribution Service operational terrestrial system of this type. http://www.acronymattic.com/results.aspx?q=MVDDS are MVDDS Multipoint Video and Data Distribution Service. Why Kirpatrick said yes in the past and no Today ??

According to Kirk Kirkpatrick, MDS International began developing the MVDDS technology in the 1980s. By 1996, their service offering was used in 20 countries around the world. Mr. Kirkpatrick now repudiates this. In the United States, Northpoint Technology L.L.C. requested approval from the FCC for DBS spectrum sharing in 1995 and was granted approval to experiment with their technology. In 2001, the U.S. distributor for MDS received approval for testing their service offering. Currently, the FCC allows licensees to provide television signal and high-speed internet; however, the internet traffic is limited to downstream only.

Sources about MVDDS in USA from Financial Times and some more to clarify the subject:

The genesis of MVDDS was a 1998 FCC request for applicants seeking to launch commercial services on the 12 GHz band. Along with several satellite-based applicants, Northpoint asked for permission to create the terrestrially delivered TV service.

Another more info from Financial Times: Entrepreneurs need not apply January 15, 2004 By Thomas Hazlett " Northpoint Technology first came to the Federal Communications Commission with the idea for MVDDS in 1994. The company's concept was then tested, proved and ultimately adjudged to be in the "public interest" by regulators, but its request for a licence was denied."

Also in this, page Kirpatrick said:

"MDS has used microwave technology to deliver communications services in the Middle East and has Saudi and Kuwaiti investors. MDS Chief Executive Kirk Kirkpatrick predicts his company"

Yes MDSi has used microwave technology to deliver communications services in the Middle East but not MDSAmerica the deal are made by MDSinternational

And yes MDSAmerica are Hold at 98% by Kuwait investor the Sheik AliKhalifa Al Sabah :

Stories of Democracy: Chapter 8- The investigations of KOTC’s finances soon produced criminal indictments of three Kuwaitis: former oil minister Shaikh `Ali al-Khalifa, former managing ... www.ciaonet.org/book/tetreault/ch08.html

PDF] Sex and violence: social reactions to economic restructuring in KuwaitFormat de fichier: PDF/Adobe Acrobat in the case brought by KOTC against its former managing director and others ... McCoy, Kuwait Petroleum Corporation, and Sheikh Ali Khalifa al Sabah (third ... taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/index/YQXV3YQFFW4YB6LM.pdf

Is this a Joke

Was the person who wrote the above drinking?? Does this mean anything? Is this just cryptic? 76.109.17.236 00:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Islamists Extremists in Kuwait said Wizardofwor

What does this have to do with MDS International. MDSI seems to be a comapny that has left a longline of fraud and theft behind it, Now one of the principals is trying to change the subject?

jeanclauduc seems to be posting old infomation about ISLAMIST going after someone who is promoting democracy in the middle east. Everything I read seems to say that the action refenced above is motivated by Islamic fundamentalism.

The reader will have to notice that in the above case that jeancluduc LEFT OUT that the person supposedly guilty of fraud has been exonerated three times by Kuwaiti and International courts? see http://www.allbusiness.com/mining/oil-gas-extraction-crude-petroleum-natural/788804-1.html

Why is an extremist posting attacks? Where are the admins???

When did Wikipedia become a posting site for Islamic Extremists?76.109.17.236 10:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Al Fawares IRAK Contracts

To know more about S Ali Khalifa Al Sabah Chairman of the Board and Owner of Al Fawares and MDSAEMRICA:

http://www.oilandgasnewsonline.com/bkArticlesF.asp?Article=16963&Section=2344&IssueID=371for Bechtel

And More to understand the right story: http://www.xingtech,info

  Al-Fawares Construction and Development, Kuwaiti Shareholding Company (closed) holds several agencies and representation agreements with several communication and information technology companies. It is the sole agent/distributor in the Middle East and North Africa region for its products:
    
 Situated at 729 S. Federal Highway, Suite 212 Stuart, Florida 34994, U.S.A., MDS America, Incorporated is the sole licensee for MDS International’s innovative - and operationally tested – high-speed wireless digital technology. MDS America has over 16 years of design experience in terrestrial broadcasting system. With over 5 years of operational experience, MDS America technology is continuously setting global standards in the broadband wireless arena.

MDS America is dedicated to serving the rapidly growing U.S. Telecommunications market with a broad array of products and services. Using its unique point-to-multipoint communication system, it have pioneered an innovative and powerful wireless data and digital television distribution solution.

MDS America began with a concept that defied convention: To place a satellite on Terra Firma rather than having one orbit the earth at 36,000 kilometers in space. The result: HyperCable® technology, bringing wireless broadband back down to earth.

HyperCable® is a terrestrial wireless system capable of transmitting video and high-speed Internet data on the same frequencies used by satellite broadcasters, without causing interference. HyperCable® has had unparalleled commercial success on a global level. Due to its ability to operate on the same frequency as DBS systems, HyperCable® has been implemented for commercial use in a number of locations worldwide. To the best of our knowledge, the HyperCable® system is the only operational terrestrial system of this type.

The “go to” solution provider for TV operators and ISPs, MDS America provides carriers with multi-channel digital television and high-speed Internet capabilities at significantly lower cost than existing DBS and Cable systems.

MDS systems are easy to extend and implement. Combining existing infrastructure with leading edge wireless techniques, MDS America’s systems can provide digital television and high-speed Internet access to consumers at dramatically shorter time to market and significantly less infrastructure investment. The HyperCable ® system is perfectly positioned to bridge the digital divide by extending its connectivity capabilities to rural areas.

MDS International main product line consists of two wireless delivery systems: WADSL is Xingtech's proprietary turnkey delivery system for high-speed data downstream and HyperCable® is MDS’s proprietary delivery system for multi-channel digital video. It is similar to satellite broadcast but without the satellite.

ALL OF THIS AVAILABLE ON THE WEB  Jeanclauduc 13:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

What is this story JC ?

JeanClauduc said any about any and always wrote lines about any, before now this folowing lines! all of this contents are available, right or no right false or not false, on the WEB on European Parliament report, on CIAO Reports; if you need I can investigate more for you and i can give links and stamped documents, when i see smoke probabely I see the fire behind the smoke. But you are right, the Wikipedia made by you Harold are similar than we can see on the web : a world of lies like my company; do you need some more instructive lies articles ? you can purchase some in USA near CIAo and Taylor Probably you paid to purchase lies ? HoHo, European Parliament report are free do you need some pages ? Nothing are old on the WEB, all are facts. You launch personnal attacks this are pleasant go ahead again and again I have a lot of contents and pictures to advertise for your profit probably Hollywood can be interested by the scenario to make a Thriller.

Take note I have a lot of friends also to daily advertise on our MDS International WiKi site

My apologies for the WiKi Reader about this above, I can not help.

Jean Claude Ducasse

Still MDSInternational are playing to change MDSinternational Wikipedia informations after Herostratus WiKi restauration. The IP adress is located in Taluyers at MDSInternational office ! I restore the Herostratus page

Software Cracking

Slowly one starts to understand all of the Vandalism and "LIES LIES." It seems there is something to hide here. 76.109.17.236 22:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The Lies about Piracy and the false Real Media site under the name of wwww.xingtech.info are made and hold by Harold Kirpatrick living in Palm City ,near Miami re=vert to original text:Jeanclauduc 13:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

IP address info: IP address: 76.109.17.236 (copy)

IP country: USA

IP Address state: IP Address city: palm city

ISP: Comcast Cable

Organization: Comcast Cable

We can provide more details if required and this from MDSi attorneys mail to mds@mds.fr to have attorney adress.Jeanclauduc 13:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

--- What xingtech.info is saying is absolutely right. As a former client of MDS international, and we were provided (by MDSi) in 2002 with the cracked software that is mentionned on xingtech.info web site. Exactly the same File. I confirm the screenshots of xingtech are right. --Mich.alonz 20:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC) FT

All the Xingtech's products were abandoned after the purchase by realnetwork. There is much site where everyone which can download free the old abandoned products of xingtech -- (This unsigned comment was posted by TrueTheTruth)

The allegations being made include changing copyright notices to mis-represent the actual author of the package. The screen shots show StreamWorks components with "Copyright©1995-1996 Xing® Technology Corporation" replaced with "Copyright©2002 M/D/S/ international".

Even if the software is "abandonware", changing the copyright notice is illegal and immoral. Perhaps the original author of the code doesn't want to spend the legal fees on a lawsuit. I think it's relevant if a company is falsely claiming ownership of somebody else's code.

--Bhimaji 19:30, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

+ It is not correct "TrueTheTruth". Real purchased Xingtech products for using the sources (not for abandoning them). Where did you get the information that Real abandoned Xingtech products ?? In addition www.xingtech.info shows that the software cracked by MDS international is concerning the StreamWorks SERVER (not player). The Xingtech products that are available for downloads on the web are concerning the Streamworks players and the 30 days demo version of StreamWorks server (without license number), There is no Xingtech StreamWorks server with license number available on the web for download. The streamworks server cracked by MDS international shows a serial number, and it seems that they are selling the same Xingtech serial number to all of the clients --IPTVdev 21:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

+++Does Weregerbil work for this company?? 72.144.202.181 14:58, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Your question is bordering on unacceptable for these discussions. See WP:TALK. If you think there is a WP:COI issue here with certain editors, please discuss it on their individual talk pages, or consider reporting it on the Conflict of interest/Noticeboard if you believe the situation meets the noticeboard's guidelines. --Ronz 15:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering the best way to resolve the lack of secondary sources is. When the article was up for deletion, one of the issues raised was that there were very, very few secondary sources covering anything about MDSI. I thought that the verifiability tag was an appropriate compromise until further information was available. The allegations made against MDSI were not heresay or rumors; specific, direct claims were made, along with evidence. It appears that the software in question dates back to 1996 - I can't see Real Networks being very aggressive in pursuing the matter. Failing that, I don't see who would write a news article about it. The software is only available to people who buy very expensive communications systems - it's not something that a third party can verify by going to Best Buy.

I'm also concerned about the removal of the trademark "issues." MDSI is not a member of the WiMAX Forum: http://www.wimaxforum.org/kshowcase/view/profile_search lists all the companies that are. Since their HyperWIMAX product is not actually WiMAX - only the WiMAX Forum can choose to give something that name - it seems appropriate to include it. Jean-Claude Ducasse, the founder of MDSI, has frequently edited the page to include references to his HyperWIMAX product.

Bhimaji 20:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

There's little that can be done about the lack of secondary sources other than to wait for them to be published. So, is the current edit-warring just because of the legal proceedings? Why not cite legal documents as primary sources? Withoug secondary sources, it will have to be kept to a minimum to avoid any bias for either side. --Ronz 21:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, there are no current legal proceedings between MDSI and Real Networks or Xingtech.

Regarding the legal dispute between MDSI and MDSA, the last document I've seen was the contempt of court finding in September 2006: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/MDSIContemptOrder.pdf I think the edit warring is going on because MDSI appears to still be marketing equipment that they're not allowed to sell. The court order says that any page listing MVDDS systems must include the disclaimer that they aren't for sale in the US. Also, the only trademark registration listed by MDSI is one that, it appears, they agreed to turn over to MDSA - HyCAnC. I have no idea who decided to capitalize it like that. I do find it a bit sad that people appear to be fighting over who gets that snappy product name.

I do not know the history leading up to the contempt order; it appears that many parts of the settlement were sealed. However, the contempt order does clearly state that MDSI shouldn't be doing things they are doing.

Bhimaji 21:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The court case was posted as a primary source ut another Wikipedia admin removed it. MDSI has a long history of cheating customers, software piracy, and trademark infringement. The WIMAX trademark is just one example. Several customers have left messages on the talkpages concerned. 72.144.202.181 23:30, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced attacks will be removed. Thank you for your contributions. Weregerbil 07:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately Bhimaji, the above comment is what some admins call 'discourse', they talk, you obey. Weregerbi has 'decided' that what is being written about is "Unsourced attacks", no more discourse, no more talk. TOE the line. I am really not sure why this is called a talk page and not "Admin lecture page." I guess there are Admins like Ronz who take their responsibility seriously, some who do not. 76.109.17.236 10:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, I have not 'decided' anything. Please see WP:V. Unsourced attacks will be removed per policy. Thank you for observing Wikipedia policies in the future. Weregerbil 10:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, just an editor trying to stop this editwarring. --Ronz 15:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

xingtech.info is preaty clear. there is no doubt about the software cracking by this company. I am not sure MDS international is doing something legal with that.

Patents

Thank you Weregerbil, in answer to the personal attacks of Mr Jean-Claude Ducasse alias jean-claude it is easy to see our WEB site www.mds.fr and to mailto us and also to download the official TM and patents of MDSi http://www.mds.fr/news/Press%0Release%20MDS%20April%202006.pdf JC Ducasse MDSI CTO. Of course we will only tell the truth to the customers. You can write to fabrice10@ mac .com to get the name of our customers and check for yourself. Don't check on this software piracy

JC Ducasse wrote the above but I do not see any patents on the MDS.fr web site. I see lots of claims but no patents. If fact, it is just as the article says, when you click on "Patents" on the MDS.FR web site, there is only a trademark listed. Doing a search on the USPTO shows only one trademark listed. Even the HyperGate so prominently displayed (I guess also illegally, is registered to another company.

I,JC DUCASSE DO NOT WROTE ALL OF THIS CONTENTS, CONTENTS SUCH AS ( You can write to fabrice10@ mac .com to get the name of our customers and check for yourself. Don't check on this software piracy ) I write what I do not write and they do not write what I write. You also do not write this as I do. THEY WRITE IT ALL! comment was added by Jeanclauduc (talk • contribs) 16:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

As I follow the contributions of jeanclauduc, I notice that he keeps putting a ten year old news story into other articles. It seems strange that he would only include the ten year old part of the story and leave out the most recent parts. I guess it shows more lies. 76.109.17.236 10:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. Personal opinions do not belong in this encyclopedia. Please find reliable sources for your claims. --Ronz 23:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Please provide independent sources. --Ronz 01:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Patents Answer

On MDSi www.mds.fr WEB site the patent US number are displayed, everybody can obtain the full text but to help you search the patents and invention made by Jean-Claude Ducasse in USA you can find two patents one are loan by MDSinternational ( the advertised number on the WEB site) on USPTO follow this link:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=ducasse+jean-Claude&FIELD1=IN&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PG01 or search:

20060052078 Device for amplifying the signal from a receive antenna 

Jeanclauduc 17:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Fabrice Ducasse wrongfully took the name and..

MDS América still modify this contents because using WIKIPEDIA admin special keys.!and our answer are moving to have non sense ! But I record this by Law to give to the French Court

Jeanclauduc 14:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC) fabrice10@mac.com the Product manager of www.mdsamerica.com are sue in France on the Criminal court for tefht and breach of trust. All sources made by MDSAMERICA are lies and false sources and false servers. We recommend to any readers to mail to mds@mds.fr to have contact to our attorneys and lawyers. Fabrice Ducasse are wrongfully took on WiKi the name of Michel Alonzo MDSi client France Telecom to make false statments. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jeanclauduc (talk • contribs) 16:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC). Revert again false words introduced by MDSAMERICA Jeanclauduc 14:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how this section is relevant or appripriate to this talk page, per WP:TALK. Anyone mind if I remove it? --Ronz 17:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE REMOVE 76.109.17.236 20:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

What the CIA has to do here ??

THE MDSAMERICA GAME:

On the top of this article original are MDSAMERICA and MDS America modify again in "MDS INternational" and change also All sources made by MDSAmerica by " All sources made by us"

And also fabrice Ducasse MDS America change original text : Fabrice Ducasse are wrongfully took on WiKi by: "CIA are wrongfully took on WiKi" We, MDSinternational are making each answer and each text on WIKI under a lawyer control and with a recorded copy and we can compare the versions modified by Fabrice Ducasse and MDSAmerica Harold Kirpatrick.

Your recent edits could give editors of Wikipedia the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself. Please note that this is strictly prohibited under Wikipedia's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a genuine dispute with the Community or its members, please use dispute resolution. Thank you. Continual legal threats WizardOfWor 14:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Wikipedia to send us again the IP adress of this guys. Jeanclauduc 11:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Wikipedia to sending us again the IP address of jeanclauduc. WizardOfWor 14:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Jeanclauduc can you please write in English ? Are you from CIA ? AGAIN not signed ! Sorry I am french and English not my native language I am comfortable in Englisg only in technology The CIA words are again MDSAMERICA JOKE INSERTION !!Jeanclauduc 14:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

POV

I've added a POV tag to the article because of editors' insistance on including original research and unreliable sources. Please do not make this article a battleground for your personal disputes. --Ronz 02:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Current state of article

Currently, we're in the middle of an edit war about information that is unverified by independent reliable sources, some of which is original research, and almost all of which is heavily biased without any sources to justify such bias in an encyclopedia article.

Please note that repeatedly violating these and other Wikipedia policies and guidelines in edits to articles can be considered to be vandalism.

Please read and try to follow the dispute resolution policy, rather than just editing the article to fit your perspective in defiance of the Wikipedia policies and guidelines, especially WP:EW, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:OR, WP:NPOV, and WP:VAND. Thanks. --Ronz 16:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

An anonymous Domains by Proxy site whose sole purpose is to attack this company, is not reliable source compliant with Wikipedia's policies. It should not be used as the basis for any information in this article. Google search results should also not be used - it constitutes original research and should be removed.

• "MDSI appears to operate under a number of different names"
• "Xingtech, a division of Real Networks has allegedly accused MDS International..."
• "A search of patent registrations, show no patents.."
• "the MDS International site lists a HyperWimax product that is an infringement on..."

This is all original research, unsuitable for this article. -- zzuuzz^(talk) 22:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Concur with above. I've also removed some unsupported categories: "Copyright infringement of software" which isn't even a real category, and "Copyright infringement", which is a topical category and not for accusations against corporate entities. I'm still looking through the history on this train wreck. Kuru ^talk 22:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Original research? The list of related companies is original research? MDSI links to them directly off their home page. They list the MDSI founder as their owner. Some of them have MDS International logos on them.

If clicking on links from a company's home page is considered "original research", I don't know how there can be any meaningful content on Wikipedia.

Zzuuzz: I'm happy to see that you're willing to take part in some discourse here on this subject; I am disappointed that you chose to remove so much content without apparently even reading the linked citations.

Bhimaji 23:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

So it should be easy to find an independent reference then. I removed a whole load of completely inappropriate allegations. Removing such claims doesn't need any discussion. -- zzuuzz^(talk) 23:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

To clarify then: You're saying that it is wrong for an article on Wikipedia to list corporate relationships that are prominently advertised on a particular company's web site unless somebody can find a news article or some similar source that verifies the company's claim?

Not all corporate relationships are considered newsworthy; RipOffs, my favorite holster company, was just purchased by US Armor. I haven't found any news articles referencing it. I only have the web sites of the companies in question to go by.

Regarding discussion before removal, I was objecting because it seems like you removed even entirely un-controversial material before you looked at any of the citations or links.

Bhimaji 23:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Based on the corporate site; the association with MDS appears to be conjecture - the front page merely says "links" and does not specify a relationship. Is there something deeper on the page that provides more information, or perhaps some sort of public corporate breakdown that could clear that up? I'm afraid that "appears to operate under a number of different names" is not acceptable since it is an opinion. I'd rather see some direct correlation and state it as such. Kuru ^talk 23:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll check into the details after dinner. I know that one of the sites had MDS International logos all over it, one of them had a "Contact Us" link that said, "Contact MDS International", and I'm pretty sure one of them had an "About Us" link that said the owner was Jean Claude Ducasse, the CTO / founder of MDSI.

Would something like, "MDSI operates a number of affiliated companies, including:" be appropriate? These separate entities are all separately findable by Google, for example, and somebody looking for information about them would, IMHO, be assisted by their inclusion in the MDSI article.

Bhimaji 00:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a source for the statement that these companies are operated by MDSI? E.g. "is owned by a person who owns another company" is not equivalent to "is operated by". I own shares in both McDonald's and Nokia, yet I wouldn't say one is operated by the other just because of me :-) Companies have the habit of registering trade marks and creating companies "just in case". Wikipedia is not the place to conduct original research into the property portfolio of a company without reliable sources that explain the relevance of those connections.

There appears to be a legal and/or business battle between this and another company, which manifests as a desire to turn this article into an attack piece (and the other company's article into advertising), all using unsourced gunk and primary sources at best. Wikipedia policy should be observed carefully. Since less than wholesome encyclopedic intent has been repeatedly demonstrated here, it is advisable to err on the side of caution and demand genuine reliable sources (per policy). Weregerbil 10:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)