Talk:Blues dance

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The name of this article is inconsistent with the names of other dance articles. Shouldn't it be "Blues (dance)"? I thought that this article was missing for that reason and almost created a duplicate. In any case, it does look like this article needs to be cleaned up. Cswrye 02:04, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

IMO "blues dance" is the most common term, so I moved the article there. // Habj 09:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violation

On 01:48, 4 December 2004, an anonymous user (Special:Contributions/68.143.85.178) inserted copyrighted material from this page, with a notice that it had been used with permission. For such material to be used, it must be licensed under the terms of the GNU Free Document License, and permission must be obtained as described on the header of Wikipedia:Copyright problems.

As such, I've reverted to the version before the copyrighted information was inserted, and will begin wikifying the article shortly. Jude (talk) 10:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Up/down

I can not agree on the notion that lindy hop is "up". On the contrary, you are constantly told that the bounce should be "down". // Habj 10:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

misperceptions

There are a lot of mistaken things taken as fact about Blues Dancing and Lindy Hop and their realtionship. Lindy Hop is a downward "bouncing" dance. Lindy Hop simply slowed down is not a Blues dance. Blues Dance refers to a genre not a single dance. It shares a number of elements with Lindy Hop since they were developed by the same culture, just as Jazz and Blues are related, and often share elements. Damon.stone 19:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cultural specificity

This article seems to be largely discussing the American history of blues dancing, in the 'post-revival' era (ie post lindy revival), which has led to a few generalisations which really don't apply to the wider international swing dance community. It would be worth mentioning the blues dancing parties at Herrang (not sure if they had blues dancing every year at Herrang, or when it started). It's also worth discussing the blues dancing traditions in other contemporary swing dance communties. As an example, certain Australian cities have had strong blues dancing cultures within their rock and roll dancing scenes, or within the live blues music scenes _beyond the lindy scenes. This would need more research.

Could someone add the full bio details for the books referenced (eg dates published, where published, publisher, title, author/editor), 'complete works of blahblah' isn't useful if you're researching that particular point or wanting to support that point.PlainJane 10:32, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is culturally specific by necessity. Since the term has cultural, historical, and academic meanings the article should discuss these things. IF you want to research all the dances that are done to Blues music but don't qualify as Blues dance from the cultural, historical or academic standard prevelant among dance historians, cultural anthropologists, or ethnomusicologists who specialze in "native dance forms" then feel free to do so, but ensure that you properly identify it as such.

In regards to BDG reference citation... since all three of her major works on the topic address the point specifically and generally it is a valid citation... though if you prefer I could include pages 1-220 for DITD, 12-75 60-94 and 201-236 for BDB, etc. etc. etc.

Dave... it is "highly disputed" only by those who haven't done the research. Until they have actually read the books listed, interviewed ethnomusicologists, dance historians, and social anthropologists who specialize in this kind of thing, their opinions don't stand up to peer review of the academic world... I know a five year old who would highly dispute the fact that green leafy vegetables are good for you because they make him feel "icky"... should I go and delete the health benefits on wikipedia's spinache entry?

IF you want to change the meaning, add or delete statements given, please include citations that support your doing so. Simply saying that the citations aren't exact enough is not appropriate for deletion by Wikipedia's rules. 'citation needed' is the appropriate tag. The fact is every statement in this article can be supported by printed works, and even by video documentries, and interviews with first person sources.

Reworking the article

I have reworked this article to tidy up the written expression and manage the issue of cultural specificity, adding in references to the international blues dancing community. More work is needed here, and it's probably interesting to explore why blues dancing had didfficulties becoming established in places like Korea or Japan, where there were/re strong cultrual factors discouraging the intimacy of touch demanded by partners in blues dancing.

I am sceptical of the claim that there is an 'authentic' blues tradition (where? this is not specified) because blues dancing wasn't taken up by the white American mainstream. There is evidence throughout various dance scholars' work that it is not simply a matter of black dances moving to the mainstream - the influence of white media and culture and the very fact that black dances were taken up by the white mainstream has had effects on black dance culture. This is something addressed in work by Jane Desmond, Hazzard Gordon, Dixon Smith, Johnathon David Jackson, Tommy DeFrantz etc etc etc - even in Malcolm X's biography you can read descriptions of how black dancers felt about white dancers doing 'black dance' and how this then affected what black dancers did on the dance floor.

You need to make a stronger argument for this point, provide clearer references (which is difficult when you're dealing with oral history, of course) or reword the section to account for these issues.

NB Referencing generally: clearer referencing is required - please cite specific articles, books, etc. Page numbers would be even better. Please add full bibliographical information for references - publishers, place published, year published as well as author and title.

PlainJane 07:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

???

I'm not sure what you are refering to re: Authentic Blues Tradition and not being picked up by mainstream White America... and then you cite sources that actually address this very issue... that is to say that media attention brought many Black dances out of the urban and rural Black communities and into Middle and Upper Middle Class White America... as such there were numerous changes made to how those dances were danced in White America which in several cases ended up removing a lot of the Africanist Aesthetic.

As to including more international representation to the topic, it would be nice if you gave some sources for this information. The people I've talked to in different countries seem to be more on the side of playing slow emotive music which is as often not Blues as it is Blues, and the dancing being done often has few or no ties to the traditions and aesthetic of Vernacular dances recognized as Blues.

This is certainly not the case everywhere, but some form of citation, book, website, videoclips etc. should be provided if you are going to include it in this entry.

Inappropriate attempts at globalization

Okay just so we don't go back and forth on this... in the US when the words white and black are used to refer to race they are capitalized. So is Blues when being used to refer to the African-American (read Black) music and dance genre. Just as Lindy Hop and Swing dance should both be capitalized when refering to specific names. The Wikipedia article in question is discussing an artform born and developed in the US, using terms particular to its culture. Stop changing them without something more specific than, "we don't use them this way in Australia." That is not a valid argument.

If you want to discuss Australia's unique contribution to the English language, or how your country dances to Blues music you are welcome to do so... but that does not necessitate or justify changing anything this article, a simple additional paragraph or two or wiki-stub would suffice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.236.86.163 (talk) 07:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

It is not a uniform convention in American scholarly writing to capitalise 'black', and certainly not 'white'. PlainJane 13:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]