Talk:Deity

Redirect

I wonder why this page redirects to God, a page that mainly describes the Christian view. I think deity or deities could be a god starting point for a more NPOV-centered reference to various deities in various belief-systems and religions? --till we *) 16:21 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)

I disagree, if you read the article God, it isn't remotely close to focusing on a judeau christian God. I feel strongly this page aught to redirect, its a stub w no future, and no special definition of its own. Sam [Spade] 21:57, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have to humbly disagree with you, Sam. Allow me to quote the first two lines of God

"God refers to the supreme being, often conceived of as a ruler or creator of the universe. This concept of God is common in monotheistic religions, such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, and Brahmanism, Vaishnavism, and Shaivism interpretations of Hinduism.

When used as a proper noun, "God" is typically capitalized. This article is not about the concept of gods, goddesses and deities in general."

That's plainly monotheistic... ClockworkTroll 22:05, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You are correct sir. However, God is not necessarilly abrahamic. Sam [Spade] 22:14, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That, too, is correct. However, by definition a polytheistic religion does not have a single "supreme being" to the exclusion of other beings. In fact, God specifically states: "This article is not about the concept of gods, goddesses and deities in general."l it could be made to be such, but serious effort would have to go into balancing the emphasis. Additionally, I feel that the monotheistic god is so subject-rich that it deserves its own page, and I disagree with you that deity is destined to remain a stub forever. Much can be written on the many regional Buddhist ideas of deities alone. ClockworkTroll 22:24, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You have done a very good job, from what I have seen. I am now convinced this article is going somewhere, and that it should remain independant for the time being. I also think the different supernatural/spiritual entities aught to have a project, or template, or some sort of connection, and I agree with you that a reader might be looking for something other than the entry they find, or that they might well be interested in multiple entries on variations of spiritual entities. Sam [Spade] 23:37, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thank you, Sam Spade. I appreciate that. I haven't done much with it, but I think this little Deity article has some potential, and I'll be happy to get it moving in the right direction. ClockworkTroll 23:51, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sam's just informed me that this page now describes "deity" as excluding monotheism. I think that's incorrect, both in that it shouldn't exclude monotheism and also in that I don't think the article as it currently stands excludes monotheism. The disambiguation note at the top should be amended in light of that, IMO. Bryan 01:52, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Seems strange to talk about the sage brushes ... surely a section on Animism or something like that would be more appropriate than this highly specific entry?

Definition

- The current definition seems too complex for the word. Isn't 'deity' just an asexual (having no evident sex) way to say 'god', so in general is 'a god or goddess'? I kind of like dictionary.com's definition 2a of deity, being "The essential nature or condition of being a god; divinity.", but again the main definition is 'a god or goddess'.

- Mirriam-Webster deity #2 states this.

- Cambridge deity states this.

- It should be pointed out that "The Diety" as a proper noun would mean a different thing (more the one supreme creator god or some such), but that should not be the main definition.

-Jayon 17:32, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

POV portion moved from article

Neither Gods nor other supernatural entities and forces figure in scientific theories, although scientists themselves may hold various religious views. But there have been controversial attempts to introduce God into science, for example, creationism, or Intelligent Design Theory, rejected by most scientists as pseudo-science.

I find this to be highly perjorative and innaccurate. Something very different could address these very ideas in an accurate, neutral manner. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade Wants you to vote!]] 23:30, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Really, where do supernatural entities figure in any scientific theory? Or are you objecting to the characterization of creationism and IDT as pseudo-science? --BM 02:23, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Absolute infinite is one obvious example. And yes, I object to the usage of "rejected by most scientists as pseudo-science", if nothing else I'd like a cite on that. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade Wants you to vote!]] 11:05, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well that isn't a scientific theory. It is religious philosophy from a mathematician. That it was advanced by a mathematician doesn't make it science. I challenge you to find any evidence that the Absolute Infinite is taught in any level of mathematics courses, as mathamatics. You couldn't get a Ph.D. in Mathematics by writing about it. For that, you'd need to go to the Philosophy department, or perhaps you could get away with it as History of Science. --BM 12:02, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

definition

Isn't "supernatural entity" too vague (c.f. Talk:Atheism)? Deities in most books would presuppose consciousness. A formless "entity", maybe an algorithm, or an artefact, should not be classified as deities. Deities are in a sense 'alive', some may even die. Maybe "conscious being considered to be esentially above human comprehension" dab (ᛏ) 12:49, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Deism, Panenthesim, Pantheism, Theism

Would it be appropriate to have a discussion of the differences between Deism, Panentheism, Pantheism, Theism? It seems most religions define deity according to one of the above four theological belief systems. Or is this down in another section? I am willing to write a brief description of each. The web site Religious tolerance.org has a nice explanation.

If you agree, where should it appear? Wjbentley 04:32, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Organisation

I think it would be a good idea to display the types of theism in a list, rather than a paragraph. It would make it easier to view each entry, and each would only require a brief description whilst linking to a main article. As it stands, there are lots of sentences together that all begin '(insert type of theist here) is...', and it's quite difficult to find a specific type.

Just a thought.--Jcvamp 00:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Etymology

As given, from Old Persian, it's bogus. "Deity" comes into English from Latin, not from Persian. Of course it's cognate; the "dyeu-" element in Indo-European languages is very widespread, but Old Persian is ancestral to neither Latin nor English. TCC (talk) (contribs) 21:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. A search on Dictionary.com and at Etymology online both say it came from Latin. I'm goign to change the etymology here to the Latin reference. If someone can provide some sort of citation for the Persian thing, then let's see it. --DarthBinky 22:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

borus??

we've had a vandalized very first line since 8 August?? Pay attention a little bit when editing, please :( dab (ᛏ) 18:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

cool

Non-definition

The introduction says a deity is:

1. a postulated preternatural being
2. of significant power
3. worshipped
4. thought holy, divine or sacred
5. held in high regard
6. respected

with all but the first being optional or mutually exclusive.

The definition of preternatural in turn boils down to "unnatural" in the sense of "abnormal".

As an atheist I find it incredibly difficult to figure out what constitutes a deity besides irrational, blind faith. Especially as many theists I know seem to rationalise their faith or at least try to do so.

Maybe I'm just trying to find a way to prove to myself that theists are not obsessing over something irrational defying mental sanity. 91.0.105.239 19:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC) (Ashmodai)

You might want to look up UPG and/or theophany. There is no evidence that religious faith is in any way connected with mental illness.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 13:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure where to post this, but can we get some references in here? I'd really like to use this stuff- but it's difficult to follow up.

Buddhism in the "Relation with humanity" section

Here is a quote of the last six paragraphs of the current "Relation with humanity" section: "It may not be readily apparent what form a religion actually takes. Religions that avow monotheism may in fact be henotheistic in that they recognize the existence of several echelons of supernatural, immortal, deity-like beings in addition to the supreme God, such as angels, saints, Satan, demons, and devils, although these beings may not be considered deities. Adherents of polytheistic religions, such as certain schools of Hinduism, may regard all gods in the pantheon as manifestations, aspects, or multiple personalities of the single supreme god, and the religions may be more akin to pantheism, monotheism, or henotheism than is initially apparent to an observer.

The many religions do not in general agree on which gods exist, although sometimes the pantheons may overlap, or be similar except for the names of the gods. It is frequently argued that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the same monotheistic god, although they differ in many important details. Comparative religion studies the similarities and contrasts in the views and practices of various religions. The philosophy of religion discusses philosophical issues related to theories about gods. Narratives about gods and their deeds are referred to as myths, the study of which is mythology. The word "myth" has an overtone of fiction; so religious people commonly (although not invariably) refrain from using this term in relation to the stories about gods in which they believe themselves.

In Buddhism "gods" or devas are beings inhabiting certain happily placed worlds of Buddhist cosmology. These beings are mortal (being part of saṃsāra), numerous and are not worshipped; it is also common for Yidams to be called deities, although the nature of Yidams are distinct from what is normally meant by the term.

The Buddhist Madhyamaka argue strongly against the existence of a universal creator or essential being (such as Brahman), yet Buddhists are not atheist or agnostic - due to these terms being strongly tied to concepts of existence. Some Prasangikas hold that even the conventional existence of universal (monotheistic) deities is a non-existent, whereas others consider that the conventional existence of such a being is an existent.

Some modern Buddhists, especially in the west, believe that deities (and God) exist in the same manner that elves or unicorns do - as an archetypal consensual entity that serves a purpose in the popular imagination; and in this limited sense, God exists.

Though this may seem a rather weak basis of existence for some, as Buddhists (such as the Yogacara) deny any objective existence (of e.g. a chair), and many more deny any sort of essential existence of phenomena at all, the distinction between the existence and non-existence of consensual entities is important to Buddhist philosophy. However, a necessary requirement of Candrakirti's (Prasangika) view is that existents must not conflict with essencelessness, and it is generally agreed by them that monotheistic assertions of deity do not make much sense without some assertion of essence, which itself is vehemently rejected, so thereby monotheistic (objectively/essentially existing) gods are non-existent even in a conventional sense. Of course these arguments are more to do with the delineation of the definition of existence than anything else."

A half paragraph for the Abrahamic religions and four paragraphs for Buddhism? I think the section on Buddhism should be trimmed down a bit, and replaced with a link to Buddhism, Madhyamaka, essencelessness, or some such thing.

Nowadays deities

car and television are the nowadays deities. ;) --Mac 20:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Removed Text

I removed the following text, posted by 204.211.224.12 (talk contributions):

Does this mean Jesus is a Demigod-the union between God & 'Mary'? ..."the 
offspring from a union of human with a diety "...

Questions really belong on the Talk page. Even if it's rhetorical, this one is probably beyond the scope of Wikipedia. I suspect it's something that people have been wrangling over for millennia...

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 13:52, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Modified article to point out that Madonna (entertainer) is God.

Madonna (entertainer) is God. I hope this will make the article more correct --UnbiasedMadonnaFan