Talk:Surreal humour

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couple changes

I wanted to make a couple of changes here, but it looks like other people are working on this fairly actively, so I thought I'd post here before I started.

First, I think the joke should go after the reference to the joke, not at the top of the article. I think it's more encyclopedia-like, and (not coincidentally) funnier.

Second, I think you need to add some discussion of pre-Monty python surrealism. If it were me, I'd particularly mention Kafka (whose stories are meant to be funny -- his friends used to sit around as he read and laugh hysterically. Gregor Samsa is an important precursor to everything the Pythons did.) I'd also talk about the dadaists and surrealists -- a lot of that stuff was incredibly goofy. Again, Monty Python wouldn't exist without it.

I'll add some of this myself if I don't hear back in a day or so.

NoahB 20:28, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

expanded article

Well, nobody commented, so I decided to be bold, and pretty much completely reworte the article. I've changed the definition, which seemed a bit too limited, and added many more examples, though there could be more....in fact, as I was typing this, I realized that I should have mentioned Bunuel, too. Maybe I'll get to that in a couple days....

NoahB 15:53, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

rurrealism isn't randomness

surrealism usually(or always, not sure) has an underlining meaning behind its obsurdness. how do completely unrelated sentences form "surreal" humor?

rurrealism, or surrealism, either one, doesn't necessarily have a meaning. Magritte said the goal of his paintings was mystery. Unrelated and meaningless things are acceptible and common. And usually funny. Do half the jokes in Monty Python have a meaning?

F. Simon Grant 19:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

confusing

"An important point of surrealism is that it can appear in different forms in a comedy; for instance, Family Guy uses relatively normal plotlines which are interspersed with outrageously irrelevant surrealism, while Futurama focuses more on unexpected humour whilst retaining a mostly surreal plotline. South Park, on the other hand, uses surrealistic, absurd plotlines which are interspersed with absurd, surrealistic jokes."

This makes my head spin. It could be poor reading comprehension on my part, but I feel this should be rewritten or omitted.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 19:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jokes

Unless someone objects, I'm going to remove the list of "jokes" at the beginning of this article. I don't believe these are strong examples of surreal humor (or any other type of humor). Does anyone feel differently? Basicially, I concur with the comment above ("surrealism isn't randomness).--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 21:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, they might well be surreal but aren't particularly humorous. Some quotes from surreal comedians/comedies might be better examples Linear 19:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, Perhpas I will add some quotes from Monty Python or from Space Ghost: Coast to Coast.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 22:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think examples/quotes could be useful here. Please do. --Spyforthemoon 20:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Better pictorial example than the one in the article (which makes some sense, as opposed to this one)

[1]

Jyeah. --nlitement ^[talk] 22:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I like the cow better. Go away, Bovine Usurper 69.161.80.217 22:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Semitist! -Uagehry456|Talk_{JordanhillVote} 07:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Surreal humor vs. surrealism vs. jokes about surrealists

This page doesn't make it clear if there's a difference between surrealism & surreal humor. It almost implies that all modern art is supposed to be funny (i.e. Duchamp's urinal). A little (content) disambiguation would be most helpful.

Also, if the jokes weren't good examples, perhaps they (or a subset) should be listed as counterexamples - 'jokes about surrealists' rather than 'surreal jokes'. I know I came to this page expecting to see the lightbulb-fish one. Without an explination they may be in danger of being added back by people who think we've simply never heard them. --Spyforthemoon 20:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, seems like the Duchamp stuff at least needs a source, too. Where did Duchamp indicate the urinal was intended to be funny? Jordansc 17:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stream of Consciousness IS NOT Surrealist

Overall the list of examples of Surrealist humor seems arbitrary. Neither James Joyce nor the Surrealists would appreciate his inclusion in the list. First of all, Joyce isn't very funny (people who actually like James Joyce may disagree). Secondly, Breton made it clear that at the core of Surrealism was a move away from focus on the conscious and the real. Modernism (and Joyce's stream-of-consciousness is one of the most common examples of Modernist technique) was heavily focused on consciousness and conscious perception of things. Cubism was considered another outcropping of this and Breton had a lot to say about this. The Surrealists apparently hated Joyce; though I can't find direct evidence of this, there's plenty of talk of the Surrealists hatred of Joyce in discussions of Beckett's mixed feelings about the Surrealists (he loved the poetry but couldn't fully stand behind them b/c he was such good friends with Joyce). I think Beckett is a great example of Surrealist humor, but Beckett and Stoppard are normally categorized as "Theatre of the Absurd" -- that's a questionable category so I don't mind it just being called avante garde. But one great avante garde/absurdist is missing: Ionesco. Rhinoceros is a perfect example of Surrealist humor. Ionesco is also perfect in that he was a great admirer of the Surrealists. Another thing about stream of consciousness: Jack Kerouac falls in line with Surrealism because he practiced automatism, not because he practiced stream of consciousness. The difference between Joyce and Kerouac (and this is key when talking about Surrealism) is that Joyce advocated revision and Kerouac did not. So I say dump Joyce, keep Kerouac but say he's practicing automatism, don't conflate Surrealism and stream of consciousness.

F. Simon Grant 19:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anthology of Black Humor

Overall the examples in this section seem arbitrary (see above comment). One example is the supposed beginning of Surrealist humor: it may go back at least to the 19th century, but it also goes back to the 18th century with Jonathan Swift. Jonathan Swift is much less arbitrary than a vast majority of the examples on this page because Andre Breton (the founder of Surrealism, and this is called Surrealist humor) had an anthology of black humor and Jonathan Swift is the first example. I'm not willing to argue that anyone listed here (except James Joyce maybe) is NOT Surrealist. But I think using Breton's anthology would be a much more useful and relevant frame of reference than what seems to be a the random selection here (randomness is good for Surrealism, not good for encyclopedias).

F. Simon Grant 00:29, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a list of people included in Breton's Anthology of Black Humor: Jonathan Swift, Marquis de Sade, Georg Christof Licthenberg, Charles Fourier, Thomas DeQuincey, Pierre-Francoise Lacenaire, Christian Dietrich Grabbe, Petrus Borel, Edgar Alan Poe, Xavier Forneret, Baudelaire, Lewis Carroll, Villiers de L'Isle-Adam, Charles Cros, Nietzsche, Lautreamont, Joris-Karl Huysmans, Tristan Corbiere, Germain Nouveau, Rimbaud, Alphonse Allais, Jean-Piere Brisset, O. Henry, Andre Gide, J. M. Synge, Jarry, Raymond Roussel, Francis Picabia, Arthur Craven, Franz Kafka, Jakob van Hoddis, Marcel Duchamp, Hans Arp, Alberto Savinio, Jacques Vache, Benjamin Peret, Jacques Rigaut, Jacques Prevert, Salvador Dali, Jean Ferry, Leonora Carrington, Gisele Prassinos, Jean-Pierre Duprey

I honestly don't know half these names, but overall it's really interesting list (certainly less random than the page is now): mostly Breton's sometimes friends (Prevert, Dali, Duchamp, etc.), Breton's usual favorites (Jarry, Rimbaud, Lautreamont, etc.), a few surprising inclusions coming from Breton (Synge, O. Henry), a few people not normally considered funny (de Sade, Poe, Nietzsche) and Kafka and Carrol of course because it goes without saying.

We could include this whole list on this page or maybe just the "notables". But to not include some acknowlegement of that book and a large part of that list I fear would be unfortuante oversight.

F. Simon Grant 23:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Samurai Pizza Cats

Samurai Pizza Cats uses surreal humour.