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Talla and araqi

Hi, I'd like to make articles on talla (Ethiopian beer) and araqi (Ethiopian liquor). Can you help? As with many Ethiopian subjects, I don't think there are many sources available. Badagnani 22:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I just began a Tella article; would you mind taking a look to see if you could improve it? Badagnani 23:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire map

Hi again Yom and thanks a lot for reminding me of the map and the corrections I'm supposed to do. I've been overwhelmed by classes / homeworks and could not spare the time to work on the map. What I was planning to do was to get my hands on a nice and reputable published atlas of the Ottoman Empire and to make an extensive revision on the map (there have been issues with a few other regions too). But since this proved to take long, I will go ahead and fix it in light of the information you've provided. Teanaste’lle’n, Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Tsemai

Hi, I just learned about the Tsemai ethnic group of Ethiopia. Do they have a WP article and, if not, do you know something about them? Badagnani 23:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I've added a photo of a Tsemai woman at Tella. Would you check it to make sure all looks right? Although we don't have an article for Weyto, where the photo was taken, I think it must be in the Debub Omo Zone of the Southern Minorities and People's Region. Tourist groups apparently go there. Badagnani 05:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Shawel

Hey yom, i understood what you meant on your Hailu shawel deletion. But as you know, the original sub-topic was "Derg advocate" or derg supporter. That one, you also deleted it. Anyhow, my question is regarding the new sub-title you used which was "alleged dictator." The last quote there was of Hailu saying that when Ethiopia was under the Mengistu people in our country "were living in peace and harmony." Clearly, such comments and way of thinking by Hailu was an insult to the hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians killed as well as even more dead in famines. But that quote becames basically meaningless unless what kind of time Hailu shawel is praising is indicated in the same article. Just saying he praised this and this era doesn't make him any extra dictator or an outrageous person to the typical wikipedia reader. So i need to know why you deleted the important part that explains what exactly hailu was praising. Unless what he praised is not detailed, the quote is meaningless to the typical person in this world. I believe the detail should be returned. In addition, ending that section with an ambigious quote is also awkward unless more detail is given. For many reasons, i believe the sourced detail i gave should not be deleted. I would like to know your position on this after you reason out what i am saying. Ethiopiawit1 19:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Ethiopiawit1, I have edited that section heavily, now. I removed irrelevant information (like encouragements by the U.S. to take the seats and comments on the election) and tried attributing every claim made with the sources provided (and added a source), but there are still some that need to be sourced. The section has been renamed to "Criticism," so you can add any criticism (sourced and by notable outlets) to that section. I also removed the quotation about the Derg since the source in which the quotation was found was not criticizing him for it. It's fine to include the quotation if you wish, but if you want to portray it as something he has been criticized for, you must find a source that actually criticizes him for it. Otherwise, it is original research, as you are making the criticism yourself, rather than attributing it to a reliable and notable source. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 05:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Tella and Tsemai

Many thanks. The obscure Ethiopian liquors are not mentioned much online, though tej is well known. I've done quite a bit of work on obscure Asian rice wines (there are hundreds of them) and would like to document the Ethiopian ones properly as well. Have you ever tried tella? Info on the Tsemai, like the Hamar, appears to come from "adventure travel" websites (the Hamar was featured on that show "Going Tribal" where the white guy had to jump over a bunch of cows like they do). So our work really can have educational benefit, if we're able to find the sources. Oh, Ethnologue seems to have them as the "Tsamai," not "Tsemai." Badagnani 06:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't find the population figures. Oh, and the regions, zones, and woredas are just impossible to figure out. From my research, it seems that the Tsamai in Weyto are in their own special woreda that is NOT part of the Debub Omo Zone, but IS part of the Southern Nationalities and People's Region. Some of the other ethnic groups in that border area also have their own "special" woredas that are not part of any Zone. Is there some resource that would be able to figure this out, as per current Ethiopian border policy? Badagnani 06:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible they live in the Hamer Bena woreda? This article says it is part of the Debub Omo Zone but some online sources say the ethnic woredas in the area are not part of Debub Omo. And one source said the Tsamai homeland has its own woreda. It's just impossible. Badagnani 07:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Sennar and other "tributary kingdoms"

Hi Yom, first I want to say that I've been wanting to get my hands on E. van Donzel's book for quite a while. If you find anything worth adding from it to Wikipedia, please do!

As to the question of these 4 kingdoms & their relationship to Ethiopia, the problem with many of these lists of Ethiopian provinces & client kingdoms is that as time passed these lists not only grew more & more out of date but sometimes even fantastical. Part of the reason was, of course, the expected bravado & propaganda motives of the Emperor & his supporters, but the person reporting often contributed to this fiction: I know Remedius Prutky, writing about Ethiopia circa 1750, reused a list of provinces that had its origins in a similar list compiled during Lebna Dengel's reign! Even though Prutky is clearly not one of the most reliable sources about Ethiopia (there are a number of passages where it's hard not to conclude that he was prejudiced against Ethiopia & its inhabitants, pure & simple), he was not alone in perpetrating this image.

As for the four client kingdoms, you got them mostly right. Let me list them with their most common identifications, with comments:

• Sennar -- obviously the kingdom of Sennar. By Iyasu II's reign, the Ethiopian Empire had developed a claim that they were a rebellious province; however, there is no evidence that Sennar had ever been part of the Empire, & some that suggests that the Ethiopian monarch simply wanted to conquer this neighbor. Alvarez records the interesting story that he witnessed, where a delegation of Christians from Nubia/Sennar came to Lebna Dengel, asking for priests & other helps to keep their faith alive. Lebna Dengel told them that he got his chief religious from the patriarch in Egypt, & sent them away empty-handed -- an unwise move.
• Naria -- actually, your identification is off. I'd bet money that this is meant to be Ennarea, which the Jesuits in Susenyos' reign called "Naria". It was known for the large amounts of gold its rulers sent to the Ethiopian Emperor when it was to their advantage. Mohammed Hassan recounts in his The Oromo of Ethiopia: a History (1570-1860) how this kingdom not only survived thru the 16th & 17th centuries, but managed to become a respectable power up to the reign of Iyasu the Great.
• Bugia -- never heard of this kingdom before. Your guess that they were the Beja seems plausible to me. Prutky doesn't mention them, but he does list a tributary "Kingdom of the Shankalla", so you can guess how reliable he can be. ;-)
• Dongola -- obviously the capital of the extinct Makuria kingdom. Just an example of how reliable this account might be. It might be de Thévenot who makes this claim, not the envoy Hag Michael Abu Yusef, which would explain why the Afar Sultanate or the Kingdom of Kaffa wasn't part of this list -- assuming Hag Michael Abu Yusef knew of their existence.

Does this answer your question? -- llywrch 02:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm limiting my responses to Sennar; about the other topics you ask about, your guess is as good as mine -- if not better, since it sounds as if you have the books at hand. If I learn anything different, I'll be happy to share it with you.

I don't think Christian Sudan was ever under Axum's control for more than (at most) a brief time. There is evidence of an Axumite army in Nubia around AD 300, but I don't think there is any proof that it stayed there more than a year, if that long. The distance between Axum & Meroe was just too much for a state with the technology of the period to maintain contact. The Makuria kingdom probably took shape in the early 7th century, & starts attracting historical notices by the end of that century. As for when the Ethiopian claims on Sennar or any other part of Christian Sudan were first made, my guess is that they must have preceded Iyasu II -- he doesn't strike me as the sort to have invented the claim & if he had, he had so little respect from his people that no one would have taken the claim seriously. O.G.S Crawford wrote a book on the kingdom of Sennar that I've been trying to find -- I suspect that might have the answer. -- llywrch 05:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing "Funj" refers to the people & "Sennar" to the kingdom. (The Wikipedia article originally was named simply "Sennar" but someone renamed it for reasons I've never looked into.) Much like "Habasha" & "Ethiopia". So a Funj king may not be a king of Sennar. My guess is based on the fact that the origins of the Funj is still something of a mystery (yeah, beyond the fact that they came from northeastern Africa ;-); one of the reports on the Sudan-Ethiopia electrical interconnect on the Ethiopia Power Company web page mentions this lack of information; BTW, both reports contain some surprisingly useful information on the local level about western Ethiopia (by which I mean western Amhara Region, western Oromia & western Benishangul-Gumuz) & SE Sudan -- I plan on mining them to fill out the respective woredas.

But back to your question. The confusing thing is that, even after assuming that king of Funj != king of Sennar, there are still some complications. If I am correct in identifying Pankhurst's king Erubat with Rabat I (the times fit), this means that on one hand he gave sanctuary to the son of Emperor Yaqob of Ethiopia, but on the other kidnapped the bishop Abba Yeshaq. (And if Abba Yeshaq was travelling to Ethiopia to become an Abuna, then what do we make of Abuna Simon of Ethiopia?) What does the translation of Susenyos' Royal Chronicle say? (I'm assuming you have a copy close at hand.)

As a last word, yuor discovery fits a theory I've had about Ethiopian international relations in this period. Care to hear it? -- llywrch 19:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The Amharic Wikipedia

Yom, you contribute the Amharic edition of Wikipedia, right? You might be interested in this notice of the work there; look to the second paragraph. -- llywrch 15:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I don't really contribute anywhere other than here. I only fix small mistakes from time to time at the French, Amharic, and Arabic Wikipedias when I notice there's a version of the English page. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Copyright in Ethiopia

First, great find about the Atlas.

From what little I know about materials released by governments outside the US, my inclination is to assume that they are under copyright, & reuse may involve paying a fee. Remember, Ethiopia is a poor country, so they are looking for any revenue stream that they can find; & a lot of nations charge for access to their official statistics, GIS information, etc. The US is unusual in that all of the material the government produces is considered part of the PD. For example, the UK places everything under Crown Copyright, which then passes to the PD after 50 years. (Hey, it's more generous than Disney corporation is with the rights to an animated mouse.)

As for Ethiopian copyright in general, I have no other answer to than to say, "They have a copyright law, it's been tightened recently, but it's unclear how or even if it is enforced". This annoys me because Pankhurst's Economic History of Ethiopia (published in Ethiopia in 1967, with no copyright notice) contains several useful illustrations that would improve certain articles. If these images are effectively PD, I'd scan them & upload them to Commons; if there is some rights involved, I might scan the ones worth the hassle to learn what the law is & upload them here. (Boy, we could have our very own Ethiopian copyright template -- "This material was first published in Ethiopia; status and laws are unknown, so fair use guidelines presumed" ;-) -- llywrch 18:46, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Alf vote

Perhaps you might want to point out where the voting had a end date on it. I didn't see one. If you removed it because you think consensus was found, you should be aware that consensus is not a static thing, and can change quite quickly. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 06:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate you contactingme back so quickly. I don't see any posting where the admin "closed" discussion. Might you point it out? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 06:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I see. Didn't know that. While you are 'fixing up' the Discussion page, you might want to make a note that the consensus was signed off on by the admin two weeks ago. That way, if new editors happen by (like myself), they will know what's what. Not mentioning is just begging for trouble. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 06:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Which is kinda why I and others challenged it. I created a new section for my comments but, as the survey did not state or allow for an expiration date, my vote should still be counted. That's just reasonable. Discussing the matter prevetns a lot of the nattering and reverting that eventually happens when people feel their voice isn't counted. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 07:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but the admin didn't close the discussion, he just moved the page. It would just as easy to un-move it. I see what you mean, though, and I appreciate the advice. I will likley act on it in the next day or two. I am going to be away fromt he comp for most of the day tomorrow. Thanks for hearing me out and being polite about it - you'd be amazed how many peple are either instransigent or just too friggin' stubborn to even entertain discussion. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 07:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you will note that the matter has died down bc Viri (apparently based in Hawaii) might very well be asleep. I imagine he will kick-start the crazy when he awakens. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 00:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I would love the tea, but the fellow seems to not catch the drift that unpleasant posts are not to be tolerated in Wikipedia. I could simply rmeove the entire post, or have the fellow banned, but those both seem too harsh. And as no one else seems to be suggesting that he tone down his posts, I am left with rmeoving only those bits which are uncivil or personal attacks on me, while retaining the rest. I am not the bad guy here. I am trying to help the DAB get squared away, and I am certainly not unreasonable. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 09:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The border war was declaired a stalemate.

The border war was a large stalemate. Majority of articles describe the war as one large stalemate after the other. The war ended on a peace treaty, not a full military victory where a government was removed from power. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethioboy101 (talk • contribs) 10:49, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

The border war is described like the Iraq and Iran war, in which that too is a stalemate because no government was changed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethioboy101 (talk • contribs) 10:31, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

The gulf war didn't have the American government going to court to dispute over kuwait, with the Iraqi government, after it had captured Kuwait. Ethiopia however decided to go for a peace deal to end the war. This war is like the Iraq-Iran war, it's called a stalemate. Majority of reporters deemed it as such and it will remain as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethioboy101 (talk • contribs) 19:06, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

FYI Requests for checkuser Randyreporter --Philip Baird Shearer 22:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Your revert

Yom, if you're going to revert the entire page on "Population history of Ancient Egypt"(even though I'm not the one who restored that), please if you will, see the talk page first and address the concerns there because it seems that they did that for a reason and are pretty upset. Many people are simply making edits with out comment. It isn't as simple as a page split, they're upset with the fact that all of their content was missing and we need to figure out what needs to go in what section. Thank you.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Population_history_of_ancient_Egypt#Where.27s_the_rest_of_the_articleTaharqa 19:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Ethiopian geneologies

I'm not sure what to do about this website. I admit that I've used once or twice in the past, & probably would again -- but the lack of sources troubles me also. Also, there is the fact that a good chunk of these geneologies probably don't exist in a "proper" print form in English; Royal Ark will thus by default be the best source for some of these things for the foreseeable future. Lastly, IIRC, most of these materials exist only in oral form, so it's not even a matter of getting ahold of a text & translating it. (I've noticed that more information about Ethiopia is getting put on the Internet, & once in a while I wonder if it's due to our efforts here at Wikipedia.) One could just cite Royal Ark & leave it at that; I only hope that the time doesn't come when the politically correct club who are now busily purging Wikipedia of all of those subversive Free Use images decide to do the same thing with "unreliable" sources, otherwise their bot-powered edits will leave a lot of articles looking like a dog chewed them up. -- llywrch 22:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Ethiopia & Somalia

(from Image talk:Map Italophone World.png)
Neither Ethiopia nor Somalia has any native speakers of Italian left (aside from foreigners). They should be removed from the map. I will update a new version of this later if I do not hear any objections.

Yom 06:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Italian is widely understood in Eritrean cities. Additionally, your assertion that "Ethiopia was only occupied during WWII for 5 years" is partially incorrect, as Ethiopia was occupied before WW2 began in May 1936, despite being taken by British forces during WW2 in April 1941. See also: Second Italo-Abyssinian War and Italian East Africa. --NEMT 16:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a citation (regarding Eritrea)? See ethnologue, there are almost no monolinguals left. Also see Tekle M. Woldemikael, "Language, Education, and Public Policy in Eritrea," in African Studies Review, Vol. 46, No. 1. (Apr., 2003), pp. 117-136. There is, of 1997, only one Italian school in the country teaching 470 students. As to the war, it is considered part of WWII in Ethiopia, and its liberation was indeed an operation of WWII. I'm going to fix the information in the article with this information on Eritrea. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I suppose I don't have a source, but I've lived in Asmara and never had trouble finding italophones. Additionally, I've never heard anyone refer to the occupation of Ethiopia as part of World War 2. The war began and ended before any widely accepted start date for WW2. --NEMT 22:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, the war didn't actually end until 1941, which is part of WWII, and involved the British. Some say that it ended in 1936, but fighting continued throughout the period and is usually included as part of the war (see the cited casualty figures I added to the article and the article that it came from, e.g.). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps in Ethiopia it is considered as such, but not in Italy or the UK - or any other country as far as I know. While resistance continued until the British involvement, the war was officially over before WW2. Anyway, this isn't a point of contention on the article, I had just assumed you may not have known the dates and wanted to point it out to you.--NEMT 23:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

My theory on Ethiopian foreign strategy

(I'm not sure if this qualifies as original research, but you may be able to use this in school.)

The current theory of Ethiopian political history is that with Fasilides' foundation of his capital at Gondar, Ethiopia went into a period of economic & cultural decline. Obviously the Oromo migrations into the former provinces of the south and southeast had a decisve influence on future devlopments, but I think that Oromo military supremacy did not have the direct effect that some historians believe it did. Instead, I would attribute this re-orientation from the southeast to the northwest due to economic reasons: the decline of the Kaffa-Harar-Zeila trade route.

I think it's fairly uncontroversial that following Oromo occupation of the former provinces of Bale, Fatagar, Damot & others disrupted this trade route. And since their culture was primarily pastorial & decentralized, their elite had no concept that encouraging economic development might be a good thing -- so this trade route declined in importance until the later 18th century with the rise of Shewa. Although Mordechai Abir has found evidence that the entire region suffered an economic depression until the end of the Zemene Mesafint, economic activity continued in Ethiopia at least at the level before the Oromo migrations: by 1700, Gondar was widely considered the most populous city in all of Africa -- including, if I remember my facts correctly, Egypt and northeast Africa. The gold, civet oil and slaves from Kaffa still found their way to the outside world by means of the Kaffa-Gojjam-Gondar-Massawa trade route -- which remained under Ethiopian control.

However, the northwestern frontier presented a new area to expand profitably into due to the Sennar-Gondar trade route, & replace the loss of the Kaffa-Harar-Zeila route. Undoubtedly the Emperors after Sarsa Dengel recognized that opportunity. Gondar was founded to facilitate Imperial oversight in this area, much as Debre Behran & other imperial "cities" were founded in the southeast.

This theory can be tested in a number of ways:

• Many accounts of Ethiopian history state that the move of the Emperors to the Lake Tana area was motived out of security; is this what the contemporary writers said, or is this what the historians think?
• There are a number of unresearched areas in Ethiopian history that touch on this. What is the evidence for the priorities of the Ethiopian elite? I have this impression that except for the campaigns of Iyasu the Great, the former provinces south of the Abay River were largely ignored. Shewa evolved in a backwater, rather than a cultural center.
• Where documents fail, there is always the archeological evidence. Once challenge I've struggled with is attempting to identify all of the old market towns and stops on the trade routes: the primary sources mention them, but experts like Huntingford and Pankhurst still guess where they were located. For example, the author of the Futuh al-Habasha mentions the town of Wiz, where he was amazed to find merchants using money instead of barter! Where was Wiz, & what was its history? Would further information confirm or discredit my theory?
• Lastly, this might also shed some light on the rationale of the rulers of Harar. For example, Emir `Abd al-Shakur ibn Yusuf spent considerable money & resources to rebuild the pilgrimage site of Sheikh Hussein. Were his motivations entirely religious, or was he attempting to reinvigorate the old trade route that had brought so much wealth to his city?

Anyone need a subject for a graduate thesis? -- llywrch 19:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Very interesting. I'll respond in full when I have more time. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia

SLavery in Africa keep an eye on it

African slave trade maybe you should keep and eye on this if you dont mind.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 20:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Shewa

Shewa was still Islamic as was Ifat when Ahmed Ibrahim campaigned against the Amhara kings of Abyssinia. In fact, I can tell you that there are large parts of modern Shoa which are still Muslim. I know because by relatives are from there. A large number of the people of the Christian Ethiopia joined Ahmed Ibrahim against the king because they were forcefully Christianized people chaffing under Amhara rule. Shewa was not seperated from the rest of Ethiopia by Ahmed Ibrahim. He did not ravage it, he reclaimed it.

The term Shewa was co-opted by Amhara Christians relatively recently and expanded to mean large areas that were never Shoa to begin with. The more western Amara Christian Shoa part is not the same the real Shoa which is still very Muslim, and also very Oromo. Ethiohistorian

"In the 16th century, Shewa was ravaged and separated from the rest of Ethiopia by the forces of Ahmed Gragn; the region then came under pressure from the Oromo, who succeeded during the first decades of the next century in settling the depopulated areas around Shewa (which were renamed Welega, Arsi and Wollo). Because of this destruction and isolation, little is known about the details of the history of Shewa until almost 1800. However, Emperor Lebna Dengel and some of his sons used Shewa as their safe haven when threatened by invaders".

Why is the term ravaged used here? It is the Amhara Christian kings who ravaged Shoa per their own records in the royal chronicles when Amda Tsion said pillaged Muslim Shoa and killed many of it's inhabitants?

Since when was the region around Shoa ever depopulated? and by whom? What is the evidence that Shoa included the areas that are now called Arsi, Wellega and Wollo?

Where is any discussion of the the Amhara migration into and conquest of medieval Islamic Shewa? Where is the mention of the indigenous people of Shoa such as the Argobba?

Why are Oromos in Shoa considered as migrants while Amharas who migrated from their region Amhara not referred to as migrants?

This article is quite bad and reads like a propoganda piece for Amhara Christians by not once mentioning the many peoples that have lived in Shoa and still do! Ethiohistorian 20:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Tej

Hi, in this photo of tej, is it really tej? I thought the liquor that is orange and cloudy has a different name, and is made from fruits instead of just honey. Badagnani 02:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks--actually I added the "unfiltered" in the caption...(it was a guess). Badagnani 05:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Please help-Amharic language request

Hello! The Wikipedia:Graphic Lab is working on artwork related to Ethiopia, and we need some help to get the proper Amharic language text into the artwork. Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Images_to_improve#Ethiopia_Scout_Association and see if you can help! Thanking you in advance, Chris 07:34, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Awaze

Hi, I just made a Mitmita article to go with the Berbere one; please add to it as you can. Should awaze have its own article or is that a classifier referring to both spice mixtures? Badagnani 00:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

help with translations

I'm currently working on a system intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you have time, please help me by filling out blanks at User:Soman/Lang-Help-am so that I can start uploading a series of articles to the amharic wikipedia. Thanks, --Soman 21:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Company list AfD

Don't you think that if a company is redlinked, it is likely not in line with WP:N and thus doesn't belong on WP anyway? My feeling is that the links retained by the cats will certainly be notable and useful, as they will be limited to those companies that have articles on them (and thus those companies that have had objective news coverage, business reports, etc., as opposed to say, my neighbor's kid's landscaping business being listed as a US-based business). MSJapan 07:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't feel that way because there are plenty of companies out there that I know are notable but aren't on Wikipedia. This is especially the case for the lists that singled out. If there's a redlink on List of Canadian companies, then it probably has a high chance of being NN. This doesn't really cross over to those lists where redlinks dominate, though. For instance, on the Ethiopian page, I know of a number of companies on that list that are redlinked and very notable, and even more that aren't even on the page, some of which are even more notable. I really don't mind the deletion of the former category, as I said on the deletion page, but deletion of those that fall in the latter would result in the loss of all those redlinks that would eventually become articles. Those lists can often be the starting point for anons and low-level contributors. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 07:23, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to have an edit war with you.

According to Somaliland times, half the deployed Ethiopian military was killed. Why isn't this mentioned? Also, the result is a peace deal, you have single handedly edited this thread to your liking.

Revert Habesha Confusion

Yom, i apologize for the confusion, but I dont think you understand what i am trying to say in that statement I made in the intro to the habesha article. You see just as you gave that analogy in the past about the two having the same grandfather, so according to the analogy, one of the two guys has died(become extinct)(Sabeans and Pre-Arabic South Arabians), while yet the other one has survived and continued on its ancient traditions and customs and unique languages (habeshas). However yet, this guy (the habesha), should trace his origins to not only his father, but also his grandfather, but mention should be made about his uncle (South Arabians) and how it was possible that he is related by blood to him, and how he actually even looked similar to him (prior to the Arab/Persian conquering of Arabia), so Yom i fully understand what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense, but I am trying to make you look at it from another point of view. Just because I believe in the Sabean theory more than the Indigenous theory more, it does not mean that I believe that the habesha used to look like the light skinned Yemeni Arabs of today since the Sabeans hardly looked like them. Readers of the habesha article should be given information about how the habesha are related to their South Arabian cousins and how they ultimately share the same roots as though they have the same grandfather.

Cluckbang 01:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

Re: Ge'ez alphabet page move

Hi Yom -- per your request, I reverted the move. I consider it a no-brainer decision: while there should be no penalty to "acting boldly", if someone contests a change then the best course is to revert to the status ante quem & discuss. If this page is moved again, though, I think the better course would be to list this at Wikipedia:Requested moves & explain what happened. (While letting me know that this happened, of course!) That way, not only do you benefit from more eyes watching, but it doesn't appear to be a case of favoritism -- which only leads to prolonged & inconclusive content wars. -- llywrch 17:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyright use of Ezana stone

Hello Yom, I would like to use the image of the Ezana Stone (see next link) in the french version of "History of Ethiopia" that I am currently writing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EzanaGreekTablet.jpg

Can you tell me if this is possible? Thank you in advance Zheim 11:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

It's available under Creative Commons license on commons.wikimedia.org -- which means (in one word) yes. -- llywrch 02:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you to both of you for your answers.

Sincerely

Zheim 00:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

An article for your review

Alaqa Gebre Hanna. I hope to eventually fill in the holes in this article, but I believe it's worth reading even in its current state. -- llywrch 02:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Which source was that? Levine's book, the article from the Journal of American Folklore, or The History of Gondar? (The last book I received just last week, & has a number of interesting facts worth adding to several articles.) -- llywrch 16:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Geez font

Hello, Yom, firstly, how is your summer. I am trying t contribute as much as I can before school starts. I wanted to ask you, why is it that the Ge'ez font has to be downloaded to be seen on wikipedia, while other scripts, which are spoken by less than 70 million (habesha population) dont have to download their fonts.Cluckbang 06:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

Meet and greet

Hello, I'd like to have your aquaintance, Yom. You seem very interested in all things Ethiopian and I hope to study Ge'ez sometime in the near future. I am an undergraduate in Linguistics at Michigan State University. I apologize for the rude introduction by my *hopefully* soon-to-be colleague, Glengordon01. (On an earlier version of your User Page.) Academics, I'm finding, are notorious for being unkind brutes. I hope to be the exception.

You have a great interest in this subject. This gravitates toward the spread of knowledge. I wish to be your friend as I prepare to possibly learn Ge'ez under Dr. Grover Hudson.

Please, shoot me an e-mail if you think it'd be neat to have my acquaintance: roger158 (at) msu.edu .

(WikiUser: Epigraphist without his password handy)

Hello. I'll send you an email soon. You may be interested in the forum I created at www.habeshahistory.com, which is focused on Ethiopian and Eritrean history. We could use some more members. ;) — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:49, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Zeragito

I'll see what I can do. Since the move can be undone at any time, I'm more interested in following Gyrofrog's lead & trying to convince Zeragito to play by the rules. I suspect that if I (or another Admin) rolls back the move, he'll decide that he has nothing to lose & only act less civilly. Hope your summer is going well. -- llywrch 16:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, it appears that Z has decided Wikipedia is not worth his time & left. ::Shrug:: I went ahead & reverted most of his changes (the Eritrean Orthodox Church -> Christians actually made sense once I thought about it). Let me know if this becomes a sticking point in the future. -- llywrch 23:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't actually see where you addressed your concern with his edits, though. Where was that? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I didn't directly. I tried to open a line of dialogue to him by explaining why one should sign one's posts, hoping that if I could get him to respect that simple guideline, I might get him to explain his edits -- but he didn't respond to that overture. Oh well. -- llywrch 07:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Ancient history of Yemen

I've been watching the Yemen history pages for some time, and seem to have been caught up in a talk page controversy (or round of abuse). I have written to Alameer and Skatewalk on their user talk pages and wanted you to know about it. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 18:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Ethiopian Civil War

Hello, I saw you are a member of the Ethiopia WikiProject. When you get the chance, please improve Ethiopian Civil War as the article is a two sentence-stub. Thanks, Perspicacite 02:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Yom -- This user has been busy revising Template:History of Ethiopia. Not sure I like the changes, but the version before her/his changes wasn't much better. I've let that item slide because I'm still wrestling with the best way to present the subject. What do you think? -- llywrch 22:45, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Modern South Arabian

(for some reason I thought it was Modern South Arabic) "Modern South Arabian" not Arabic, big difference. This language is irrelevant to Arabic or South Western Semitic. In Western Yemen and Ethiopia. just noticed the title of the article. disregard! Modern South Arabian is closer to East Semitic than Southwest Semitic. Southwest Semitic is highly evolved and similar to west Semitic. Modern South Arabian is still pure on the same level Akkadian was 4000years ago! (if not proto-Semitic), keep in mind most Mahra from Kuwait or Yemen are already mixed so they will use the Arabic pronounciation (many of them dont like to speak their older langauge or prefer to add Arabic words and letters because they only have 19 letters you might not find that the case with the urbanized Mahra, but if you go to the mountains in Dhofar and Mahra you will see what I mean--Skatewalk 18:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Somali region

Hi! I heard that the Ethiopian military is on a campaign against the ONLF after the Abole raid. I wonder if the government gave any name to the operation, it would help my effort to create an article. Thanks, --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Not that I know of, sorry. I'll let you know if I find one, though. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Tigrinya speakers

Hi! I have noticed that you have reverted the edit regarding the number of Tigrinya speakers in Semitic languages, and even said it was a "long overdue correction". I must know where is the basis for that claim. My old edit summary explains it best: "The number of 6.5 million Tigrinya speakers is based on the unsourced claim that all ethnic Tigrinya are speakers of Tigrinya." Please cite that - thanks. Etams 09:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Abebe Aregai

Hi Yom -- I noticed your edit to this article. So "Arbegna" is the singular form & "Arbegnoch" the plural? If so, there is another passage in the article that needs fixing. (And last night I found a more extensive account of Ras Abebe's role in the Woyane revolt that needs to be worked in that same passage.) -- llywrch 21:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Ethiopian Airlines

I'm puzzled that you find a quote about the airline from the year 2000 (and a quote within that quote from the year 1987) acceptable in a 2007 encyclopedia. The facts given about Ethiopian were doubtless true in 2000 but it tells us zero about the facts seven years later so I can't see the purpose of the Ref. So I've reverted you. Can you tell me how the quote helps the reader (except to tell him/her how things were seven years ago)? Perhaps the wording in the article should be changed to let the reader know that it's outdated information? However if you are determined to have the quote put it back in and I'll leave it alone (under protest), Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone 21:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It helps the reader by giving it an idea of the airline 7 years ago, and 20 years ago. Isn't that notable? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and therefore should explain what an airline is like, but also its history. I added the dates to clarify when these assessments were made. Ideally, we would have a full history with more detail and with comparable (over the years) assessments by a few important reliable assessors, but for now, this is what we have, and I don't see any reason to remove it, given how little text (as opposed to lists) the article has. I'm going to restore it on this basis. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

That's fine - Adrian Pingstone 22:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ras Makonnen photograph

When you removed the image of Ras Makonnen from the V&A Lafayette web site, why did you not give a source or credit the people who did the work to clean and scan this image? rvondeh@dircon.co.uk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.133.1.176 (talk) 14:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't believe I got the photograph from the V&A Lafayette website (I think it was from an Ethiopian one, although I don't remember exactly), although I see now that's it's ultimate origin. Had I known the origin, I would have included it, and will do so now. I'm relatively certain that the image is in public domain in the U.S., now, though, as it was published before 1923 (see here for public domain issues), 27 September 1902 according to the website. I'm not sure how the status of the image would be affected if the image was edited later, though. The website claims copyright, but I'm sure that U.S. law would put the original in public domain. If this is not an original, the copyright status may be different. I'll look into it. Do you know if the photographer James Lafayette himself, or another photographer in the studio, though? The page only says Lafayette ltd. I added the photographer detail and the source page. You can add any other info you think is important as well. Do you have any other concerns? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Patronyms

Hi! I notice you've been involved with Ethiopian and Eritrean articles. We're currently trying to set up a naming convention for Iceland-related articles. One of the issues we have is that most Icelanders have patronyms rather than family names and we like to sort and refer to people by their given name. I understand that you have a similar situation in Ethiopia and Eritrea (and Somalia?). Yet it seems to me that while Eritreans are usually sorted by their given names on Wikipedia, Ethiopians tend to be sorted by their last name (patronym?). Is there a reason for this or do you think it should be different? I think we could maybe cooperate on this. Haukur 08:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I've also been discussing this with the Malaysians, same issue there: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Malaysia#Naming_conventions Currently Category:Icelandic people is consistently sorted by first name so I'm wondering if articles on people from other cultures with similar naming conventions should be too. Haukur 23:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Ethiopian names are organized like Eritrean ones. See Merhawie's work at Habesha name for the system. If you saw some ordered by their last name, then they are in error. There's a partially complete MoS for Ethiopia-related articles. What type of cooperation were you implying? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Looking at Category:Ethiopian politicians only about half of them seem to be sorted by first name. Most of Category:Eritrean politicians are sorted by first name (but not all, Petros Solomon, Estifanos Seyoum, Germano Nati and Abraham Kidane are not). Should these all be sorted by first name? As for cooperation I was thinking we could maybe have a common MOS/NC page for people with patronymics. It may be easier for people to accept using first names when it's not just a question of one culture or nation but several. But I also just mean mundane cooperation like - I could for example help sort those categories. I just don't want to make mistakes due to unfamiliarity with Ethiopian/Eritrean names. For example I wonder if Haile Woldense is somehow a different case. Haukur 23:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Iyasu the Conqueror Saint

Hi Yom! Weld Blundell (it's one of those British double-barrelled names) is obviously wrong in his translation here; what I am wrestling with is how to correct it in a way that does not leave it open to an accusation of original research, or reversion on other grounds. To wit:

• Adding a link to the original translation (as you did) might be reverted by a well-meaning but uninformed editor who thought it was vandalism. (I remember the struggle I had over educating people about Ethiopian naming practice.)
• Leaving the original text untouched, but a correction in the footnote, could be justified; it is what Weld Blundell wrote. However, I think doing this just makes things unnecessarily complicated for the reader, & implies that he was an incompetent translator. While I have caught some errors in what he wrote, he was a pioneering scholar in Ethiopain history, and if this book doesn't meet the definition of dull, I don't know what would. It's about as exciting as reading a stranger's bank statement: passages like (to paraphrase) "March began on a Tuesday. On the third Emperor Tekle Giyorgis left Gondar. On the 8th he reached Kosogo. One of Gadlu's men killed an elderly monk, and he was so proud that he gave him a new cloak. On the 10th Emperor Tekle Giyorgis went to the church and recited the prayer, "Insert some line from Psalms here" and recited it all of the way through. On the 11th Kenfu went to Gondar." Pages and pages of this; the chronicler must have been keeping notes as he went along, & never went back to rewrite them into a more readable form. The part quoted in Demetros of Ethiopia is actually one of the more readable passages!
• Revising the translation might be defensible, since it could be argued that the original text is printed in the book (the Ge'ez text covers 200 pages), so I decided to try that angle.

I'm not sure I arrived at the best solution, but maybe explaining the problem will help you find a better. BTW, what are the Amharic/Ge'ez forms of "Jesus" & "Joshua"? IIRC, they are the same, & only by accident do they have different forms in English. -- llywrch 16:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll respond in full later (probably in a few days it's been a busy week!), but I can answer your Ge'ez question right now. Joshua and Jesus in Hebrew are thought to have the same origin from a contraction Yehoshu`a-> Yeshu`a ("YHWH saves"), but the Ge'ez forms are distinct. They are not from Hebrew, though but from Greek Ιησους (Iesous) -> Ge'ez Iyäsus (the more common spelling and more accurate guide for pronunciation would be Iyesus), while Ge'ez Joshua is Iyasu (good guide & most common spelling). So in English transliteration, where the umlauts are often dropped, the difference becomes only the final "s," but they are distinct in Ge'ez both in spelling and pronunciation. I noticed Iyasu was confused with Iyasus on some of the king lists a few years back, was it due to this misunderstanding, or did the sources also confuse the two? Iyesus is never a given name in Ethiopia, it is only given as a compound-name, and usually baptismal, unlike Iyasu. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 16:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

About the king lists: no, that was my handiwork; I was being mischievious. ("Jesus" is a common male name in Spanish, so no disrespect was intended.) Someone changed those edits back (I think it was Sandeq or it could have been you, I don't remember now), & since my reasons weren't worth being disruptive, I let the matter go. -- llywrch 17:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Aksumite Architecture

Hello Yom, I have a question and am asking you based on the solid and substantial contributions you have made to the article on the Aksumite Empire. I noted with some interest in the Arch article that, citing Munro-Hay's book on Aksum Civilization, an Aksumite - or at least Syrian/Aksumite - origin to the horseshoe arch is asserted (which is what I am looking into). I see you added this information and was wondering the degree to which you know how accurate this claim is. I know that there are 5th century antecedents in Syria to the emergence of this architectural curiosity, but have not hitherto encountered an Aksumite attribution, which would, given the ambiguities of its architectural and iconographic significance, be fascinating indeed. Any help or suggestion for further reading you might have would be much appreciated. Thanks! Eusebeus 21:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

• • Sorry, - Update. I have followed the link to SMH's work online and will work through it there. I am wondering if there is any photographic evidence of the arches in question. Eusebeus 22:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know the Syrian examples were 5th century, actually, the way Munro describes it, it sounded as if they were 4th or late 3rd century. I'm not particularly knowledgeable on ancient architecture, but I can provide you the full citation of the text so that you can analyze it for yourself.

An unexpected find was the Tomb of the Brick Arches. The tomb itself lay beneath a rough-stone and mud-mortared superstructure, most of which has now disappeared, and whose original form cannot be reconstructed. Between two parallel walls a staircase roofed with rough granite slabs descended until the tomb's entrance was reached. The first sign of anything unusual was the discovery of a granite lintel, and then, underneath it, the upper part of an arch of baked bricks. As the excavations progressed, it became apparent that this was a horse-shoe shaped arch, forming about three-quarters of a perfect circle, which rested at each side on slate-like stones forming plinths supported by the usual Aksumite rough stone and mud-mortared walls. The entrance led to an antechamber, from which two further horse-shoe shaped arches led into the tomb-chambers proper. All had been blocked with stones, and all had been broken open in ancient times when the tomb was partially robbed.

Illustration 27. The Tomb of the Brick Arches. View from inside the vestibule, looking through the horseshoe arch towards the staircase. Photo BIEA.

The entrance-arch had an internal measurement of 1.3 m across the widest point, and the bricks were square. One of the internal arches resembled this, but the second was rather different, with oblong bricks arranged so that the long and short sides followed each other alternately. The square bricks measured 27 × 28 × 7 cm.

The contents of the tomb have been tentatively dated by various methods to the early/mid fourth century AD. To find horse-shoe shaped baked brick arches of this early date in Ethiopia was very surprising, and of great interest for the history of architecture. Horse-shoe shaped arches are known from an earlier period in India, a country with which Aksum had vigorous trading relations from probably the first century AD, but these arches were carved from the rock and not built. More or less contemporary built examples are reported from Syria, and so the Ethiopian examples have a pedigree as old as any others, at least for the time being (Munro-Hay, Rassegna di Studi Etiopici, forthcoming).

Some distance away was found the so-called Brick Vaulted Structure, presumed to be a tomb of the same date as the Tomb of the Brick Arches, since it was also situated in the main necropolis and similarly employed brick horse-shoe shaped arches. But it also included relieving arches and lintels, and the rooms were barrel-vaulted with brick. These bricks were mortared together, and it is evident that the Aksumites knew the use of mortar (nb. de Almeida's statement above, Ch. 5: 3), but rarely felt the need to employ it, preferring their drystone walling with simple mud-bonding.

The Brick Vaulted Structure first appeared during the excavations (Munro-Hay 1989) as a stone wall of Aksumite style, built parallel to the courtyard in front of the Tomb of the False Door to the west. In due course, a number of bricks began to appear, soon proving to be the remains of collapsed brick vaults. These consisted of double rows of square baked bricks forming radial barrel vaults resting on string-courses of slate-like stone on top of the usual Aksumite stone and mud-mortared walls. The chambers covered by the vaulting seem to have been approximately 1 × 2 m in size, and one retained traces of the stone-paved floor of a superstructure over the barrel vaulting. The height of the vaulted rooms was about 4 m, and a tentative reconstruction seems to indicate that they flanked a central passage.

The vaults themselves were not horse-shoe shaped. But the entrance to one of the vaults (the only entrance found) was formed by a horse-shoe shaped arch, also 1.3 m wide across the centre, sealed with a stone blocking, and surmounted by a granite relieving lintel above which the bricks of the vault rose. This revealed a new and more complex combination of architectural features, which, as far as our present knowledge goes, is entirely unique. It seems as if the structure originally had a number of these vaulted rooms opening off a central corridor, but the complete plan has not yet been completely recovered.

Illustration 28. Drawing of the granite entrance doorway to the tomb called the `Mausoleum'. Drawing BIEA.

A further tomb, probably the largest yet known at Aksum, was entered by a monumental granite doorway in typical Aksumite style, with carved granite square-headed beam ends protruding at the corners. This tomb was dubbed the `Mausoleum', as a testimony to its size and elaborate construction, both totally unexpected by the excavators. Its plan consists of a long corridor behind the stone doorway, also entered from above by three shafts, and flanked by ten rooms, five on each side. It has not yet been cleared, only planned by crawling through the narrow gap left between the mud fill and the roof. The tomb is about 15 m square and lies to the west of the foot of the largest stele. The entrance to another tomb was found on the east side of the stele with a simpler doorway of rough stone topped by a granite lintel. Both of these tombs opened onto a courtyard at the foot of the stele, which must have been filled in before the collapse of the stele. The `Mausoleum' was built largely of rough stone walling roofed with granite blocks, and was covered with huge quantities of dry stone fill. It may belong to the person for whom the giant stele was raised. At the west end of its central corridor can be seen the top of another brick arch, leading into a passage not yet entered; but whether it was of the horse-shoe type is as yet unknown, as it was never cleared. It is possible that the arch gives access to further chambers, but it seems unlikely that there will be any connection with the Brick Vaulted Structure to the west, since over 20 metres lie between them.

By the time this arch was found it was scarcely a notable discovery (see above). But earlier in the same season (1974), the very appearance of baked brick in Aksumite Ethiopian architecture would have been remarkable, since it had been previously noted only in a few special circumstances (Anfray 1974), and an arch in the same material was completely unheard of. It is certain that our ideas about the architectural limitations of the ancient Aksumites will require yet more revision when excavations can be resumed.

These baked brick features, horseshoe shaped arches and vaults, in Aksumite buildings of the fourth century AD, may mean that our ideas about the routes of dissemination of architectural ideas in Africa, the Near East, and Spain (where the horse-shoe arch was later familiar) also need some revision. Wherever the style originated, it was certainly not expected to turn up in Aksumite Ethiopia. Without being able to assert the idea too strongly until we have more evidence, there may even be a case for proposing the brick horse-shoe arch as another Aksumite innovation, perhaps based on ideas which arrived through the trade-routes with India.

You can a picture here: http://www.traveladventures.org/continents/africa/axum12.shtml

^^I posted the above before you edited your comment, but apparently it didn't go through. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks Yom, I'll digest all that and keep you updated. Eusebeus 02:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

2007 ogaden conflict

[1] I really cannot see the word "vandalism" you told me. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 22:55, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

ahhh :) you're right. I never knew that. I thought rvv stands for "reverting reversion" or "double-revert" or something like that... never mind.. (sorry for the inconvenience) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you talking about me?

Using a template? Yes, LA2 suggested the idea behind Template:Ref Ethiopia. I haven't advertised it's existence because I'm still testing it -- I've encountered a few glitches with it -- but I think this will simplify the bibliographical style & make maintaining these sources much simpler. Or was your commment about something else? -- llywrch 03:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but not about that. I saw that page and was wondering how it was supposed to work, actually. What's the general idea? The comment you're talking about is referring to you probably using Wuchale as a template (i.e. by cutting & pasting and then replacing the names and figures) for town articles. Although, IIRC, you used a bot to generate all those pages from the CSA, at least at first, right? Edit: Oh, okay. I see how it'll be used. I guess it's useful for keeping uniform citation styles and for statistical purposes. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Kebede not being Liya Kebede's surname

About this change to Liya Kebede. If Kebede is her father's last name , u r saying she married a man with the same surname? Liya and her husb Kassy both have dad's with the name 1st Kebede? . . . . .Do u have a source 4 this?

Also, it IS her surname is this sense as this is US wiki.