Talk:Hurricane Noel

NHC Guidence

Is it really a good idea to slap on the latest NHC guidance track on Wikipedia? While I certainly would trust the NHC, I don't think it's necessarily in the form of an encyclopedia to put down a graphic that is subjective.

Well i would think it is a good idea as it demonstrates where all the hurricanne watches/warnings are Jason Rees 02:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Death figures

Since Noel has affected Most of the carribean and it looks likely it may affect the USA/canada is it going to be a good idea to use the Same box for deaths as we used for dean if Noel becomes a hurricanne??

I don't see the need in doing what we did for Dean - personally, I think that should never be used, as it is just too much info. I think listing it by country is fine, regardless if it becomes a hurricane. That said, if we get official statistics for each sub-national level (not from news sources but from the government), it could possibly work. Hurricanehink (talk) 02:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Besides, Noel won't be a Hurricane by the time it makes landfall in the Maritimes. Extratropical Storm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.217.94 (talk) 13:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

• Ups. --213.155.231.26 10:27, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, Noel is (and will be when it hits the Maritimes) a category one hurricane. It may become extratropical and just be a noreaster, though. Juliancolton 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Satellite images useless because land boundaries are very difficult to discern

Can we not get any false-colour images including IR channels that clearly show the land-sea boundary? MODIS does provide these channels. 82.71.48.158 14:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Western Caribbean?

The article section organization is a little odd. Hispanolia is not considered western caribbean, nor is jamacia, etc.. A far better organization would be Lesser Antillies in one section and Great Antillies in another (Peurto Rico info thus moved to Greater section). As it stands now the article uses two different naming styles and not even accurately. Russeasby 21:21, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

There was no significant impact in the Lesser Antilles (the Greater Antilles are Cuba, Hispaniola, Jamaica, Puerto Rico and the nearby islands). CrazyC83 02:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see what this has to do with my comment? And obviously I know the difference between the Greater and Lesser Antilles, which is why I pointed this out and changed the article to make more sense. Russeasby 02:18, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The change was a good idea. I thought the Greater Antilles section would have been overwhelmed, with too little in the Lesser Antilles, but it looks good. Eventually, though, subsections for each area may be needed, given the high impact. Hurricanehink (talk) 03:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Before I made my change, I toyed with making subsections under Greater Antilles, but nothing I came up with looked right. Basicly I tried subsections for PR, DR, Haiti but that left an Elsewhere sections that just didnt look right in the grand scheme of the article. Certainly though, as you suggest, as more details come in and things fill out a bit, what works best will become more obvious. Mainly I wanted to get PR out of the Lesser section, and rename the Greater section which was oddly named Western (Belize, Panama, Guatamala, etc were certainly not affected by Noel!). By the way, I took at look at your user page Hurricanehink, and well, color me impressed! Your quite the wikipedian. Russeasby 03:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Heh, thanks for the kind words. Yea, I had a brain fart when I thought of the Western Caribbean being anything west of Puerto Rico. The Caribbean could be split up as "Lesser Antilles and Puerto Rico", "Hispaniola", and "Cuba and Jamaica", which seems logical, but, as you said, more info will indeed make the separations more obvious. --Hurricanehink (talk) 04:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

New England

I think that there shoud be a section about the preparations and possible effects on New england that noel will have. Any thoughts? Juliancolton 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It's going to have much more effect on Nova Scotia, where it will make direct hit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.59.177 (talk) 20:48, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

• Precisely my thoughts; it's due to actually make landfall in atlantic Canada, yet there's next to no mention of this. Radagast 02:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

But since noel is no longer tropical, but a strong mid-latatude storm, should there still be a mention of a landfall in canada? Juliancolton 14:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Hurricane Agnes did most of her flooding damage when she no longer had tropical characteristics I don't see why being extratropical makes the storm less important. The storm will hit Canada harder then the carribean in terms of intensity with winds well over Category 1. 156.34.66.74 15:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Agnes is also considered very significant in hurricane lore because its "extratropical landfall" (which essentially had the rain and almost the wind of a "Category 1") occured almost right over New York City (though most of the damage and casualties actually occurred inland in northeast Penn. and upstate NY). It is probably the only storm to have its name retired because of what it did while "extratropical" (though the Weather Channel thinks Noel will be retired too). This will be the biggest such storm in Atlantic Canada since Hurricane Juan (and thus one of the biggest storms in their history). hairymon 15:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Even if they think this will be retired, I think that this page should not be moved. It is far from certain as Hispaniola is not exactly known for retiring hurricane names (Gordon killed over 1,000 there and was not retired, for instance). CrazyC83 23:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, at least according to the article here on Wikipedia, Hurricane Agnes made its final landfall as still tropical, going through transition shortly after landfall. However, a section should definitely be included on the storm's New England and Canadian impacts. IPchanges^{the box} 13:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Separate article on Extratropical Noel

This article is bound to become pretty big. There is plenty of information out there to expand the tropical sections much more, and more will come as more reports come out. Seeing as Noel is shaping up to be a significant extratropical storm, I propose the Meteorology WikiProject make an article on the extratropical storm that was once Noel; perhaps November 2007 nor'easter? Starting as a sandbox would be a good idea, as there is still the chance it doesn't do much as an extratropical storm. This article could cover a brief (few sentences to 1 paragraph) of its storm history after becoming extratropical, and maybe mention just the overall impact. Then, the other article could give it details galore for New England and Canada (and other areas of NE US). The other article wouldn't have to have the name Noel in the title, seeing as Noel was the name of the tropical cyclone, but it should mention it. Hurricanehink (talk) 16:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The article isnt that big and probally the only major effects on Atlantic Canada will be widespread blackouts and downed trees with some potential damage to wharves due to storm surge. 156.34.66.74 16:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi. If you're going to add info about extratropical Noel, either on this article or a seperate one, I suggest doing so before the storm passes over Atlantic Canada altogether. I at least think there should be occasional updates from the Canadian Hurricane centre, even if it is not used in a hurricane infobox. This way, um, see the comment I posted on the 2007 season page. Thanks. ~AH1^(TCU) 16:27, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The storm currently approaching the maritimes is Hurricane Noel, even if it is no longer tropical. It should be handled by a single article, with redirects as appropriate. A seperate article would be a bad idea.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there precident for doing this? ie- do other storms which have taken a similar path have seperate articles or do they tend to stick to a single article? I would assume single article, but Hurricanhink you obviously know the storm articles well and can perhaps offer an example of a storm to support this idea. Russeasby 21:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no point in making an article for the extratropical form of Noel. This article is about the storm, regardless of whether the storm is tropical in nature or not. There are no precedents for this, as the distinction between damage caused by a cold-core cyclone is indistinguishable from damage caused by a warm-core cyclone. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there should be a seperate article about noel after it became extratropical. I also like the idea of an article titled November 2007 Nor'easter. I just think that the article should not have too much mention on the actuall affects of the storm when it was still tropical. Juliancolton 23:05, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

For one thing, there is no major precedent for this. Second, splitting it would take unnecessary effort and could siphon attention away from the main article. Third, there is nothing to suggest that the storm's impact as an ET storm will take up so much space so that it needs its own article; there are some very long and very good articles even within this Wiki-Project. IPchanges^{the box} 23:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

No there shouldnt be another article on ET Noel as the only reason that i can see being putting forward at the minute that i can see is utter tosh as the space shuttle mission pages when complete are nearly 70KB long and even the Katrina (05) page is over 100Kb . Jason Rees 23:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I think one page is fine. If the article gets too big, we could create subarticles for Impact of Noel (by region if necessary), Pets frightened by Noel, etcetera. Thegreatdr 06:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Somehow I don't understand why one should consider a renaming to November 2007 Nor'easter as an Nor'easter is a storm coming from the Northeast and not going there. However, CHC is calling the storm Post-tropical storm Noel. --213.155.231.26 18:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Nor'easter actually more commonly refers to a strong cold core storm, usually found in the mid-latitudes (around 30-60 degrees north or south of the equator), which is what Noel currently is, although some do claim that it has a few tropical characteristics. IPchanges^{the box} 20:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Extratropical Noel

Hurricane Noel is now considered a Extratropical Cyclone so I have fixed the Hurricane Warning Notice to "Extratropical Noel"- November 3, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.47.67 (talk) 18:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi there i Think the policy is that we will call it whatever the CHC calls it Jason Rees 23:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The Canadian Hurricane Centre is not an official RSMC though. CrazyC83 02:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

So what? They are the source for any information on the system. The "official" stuff is a millstone around the neck of WPTC.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, since the CHC is the only storm centre that is tracking the storm specifically, and it is thus the only centre that has given it a prefix after transition, then we should go with them, even though they're not official. IPchanges^{the box} 12:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Dominican Republic

[1]

Yahoo says that the Dominican Republic is requesting $100 million dollars in aid to help cleanup storm damage. Should we put this under damage in the infobox? :@ 156.34.64.164 17:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

No, that goes in the government relief section. Anyone care to update it? IPchanges^{the box} 17:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, hold on a minute, the information seems to already be there from a different source, only the request in the article is 200 mil, not 100. IPchanges^{the box} 17:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)