Talk:List of Blood+ characters

A pic of Diva's real form

Shouldn't there be one? And not just of her in her Riku form?

I agree, there should be one if we can find one that does not violate the fair use rationale. --Eruhildo 18:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

well since we haven't seen a chiroptera queen freak out and mutate yet we don't know what they look like. Deanostrodamus

I meant, one that shows her as she appeared as a teenage girl, before she took on Riku's image.

Otonashi?

Where does Saya get her surname? Kai, George, and Riku are all named "Miyagusuku" so it's not an adoptive name; the next logical thought would be "Goldschmidt" after the original Joel, but that's not it either.

Did I miss something? It's really bothering me!

~goes to rewatch all 50 episodes~♥♥♥

Diva's children

It's me again (same unregistered person as above)... I'm starting to be a pain, aren't I?

Were Diva and Riku's twins names ever given? Because I was looking through the Japanese version of this entry and, under Diva's description is: "音無奏・音無響" meaning OTONASHI KANADE and OTONASHI HIBIKI.

My Japanese is AWFUL (I'm Chinese XP), but this is a rough translation of the paragraph.

Diva and Riku's children (who are twin sisters). They are the next generation of queens. Saya and Kai's niece [. . .] after winning. The matter of the story of the Otonashi twins is a bright one. Kanade is the older sister, who has brownish eyes identical to Saya's, and Hibiki, the younger sister, resembles her mother, Diva, with blue eyes. After Diva's death, Kai accepts [the responsibity] of raising the twins. The two call Kai by his first name without honorifics which Kai often scolds them for, telling them to call him "otousan" (father).

I did this line by line so it sounds really choppy together. I don't see any references at all... is this just speculation?

(romaji - probably incorrect)

Diva to Riku no kodomo de futago no shimai。Jisedai no joō de ari。Saya to Kai no mei ni ataru。Shousetsu ni de futago no mei ga Otonashi Kanade to Otonashi Hibiki de aru koto ga akiraka ni natta。Ane de aru Kanade wa Saya to dōyō no chakasshoku no hitomi wo, imōto de aru Hibiki wa Diva ni ji ta aoi hitomi o shiteiru。Diva no shigo, Kai ga futari wo hikitori sodate teiru。Futari tomo Kai nokoto wo ｢Kai」 to yobisute ni shiteiru ga, Kai wa ｢otōsan」 to kobetokinmeiru。

(original)

ディーヴァとリクの子供で双子の姉妹。次世代の女王であり、小夜とカイの姪に当たる。 小説にて双子の名が音無奏と音無響である事が明らかになった。姉である奏は小夜と同様の茶褐色の瞳を、妹である響はディーヴァに似た青い瞳をしている。 ディーヴァの死後、カイが二人を引き取り育てている。二人ともカイのことを｢カイ」と呼び捨てにしているが、カイは「お父さん」と呼べと窘めている。

...I have too much free time...

Manga

Since the manga diverges considerably from the anime, should there be a seperate section for each character? For example, Carl is totally different from the series because of a major change in the Vietnam arc. I don't want to spoil anyone though. Thanks.

That can go to a separate page that specifically addresses the manga. This article is primarilly about the anime series.--Chicbicyclist 07:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Chicbicyclist, I made several edits to Saya's character profile, as well as Diva's, but you deleted them all. While I admit that some of these edits used weasel words, most of my edits were solidly based. I have read articles on many other anime, and I have found suggestions that have far less evidence than those that I made on this page.

The one about the blood part was especially wordy. Most of it is just trivial stuff, and talking about drinking as opposed to transfusions is just nitpicking, IMO, it's been shown many times that 'vampires' in the series do drink blood. The other stuff, specificially sword fighting skills, is also just more wordiness that do not add any substantial info to the article, though a condensed version would work too(of both the blood drinking and sword skills). Stuff about other characters, Diva's ability to take the likeness of those she drank blood from and the thing about Nathan being the twin sister's mother's chevalier is just pure speculation.--Chicbicyclist 09:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok then, I'll try for a more condensed version. You say that Diva's ability to take on the likeness of those whose blood she has drank is pure speculation. You did watch the series, didn't you? Diva wears Riku's likeness for most of the latter half of the series. When Diva is performing on tv, and Saya's friend watches it in Okinawa, she mutters "Riku-kun?" Also, in the final battle with Saya, she drops Riku's appearance to revert to her true form. Watch it again. This is not just speculation. Further evidence to their ability to do this is the fact that Amshel did this on the train in Russia, when he killed a female member of the Red Shield and posed as her for a time. Diva also holds this ability. The proof is all there, clear as day.

I took it as her taking the appearance of being Riku, with clothing, haircut, etc, not actual physical transformation into Riku. Her height also stayed the same and Riku was shorter than her and her hair stayed the same color unlike Riku's brown haircolor. Amshel's abilities has nothing to do with this. Chevaliers can transform into thier chevalier and human form quite freely(and other people, presumably) but Saya and diva were never seen in thier Chiroptera form. --Chicbicyclist 03:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok Then it means you HAVENT watched series clearly... In one of episodes Diva changed from her Riku appearance with short hair into he long-hair normal appearance in the minutes...it is a fact that she took Riku's appearance by shapeshifting/transforming as there's no other explanations on how she in seconds changed her hair length...

Agreed, you obviously haven't watched the series properly, in which case, I don't think you're fit to be the editor of this page. Chicbicyclist, you're making presumptions there yourself. You said "Chevaliers can transform into thier chevalier and human form quite freely(and other people, presumably)". There is no evidence to support this in the series. There is, however, quite a lot of evidence to support their ability to transform into someone who's blood they have taken. Also, what does the fact that "Saya and diva were never seen in thier Chiroptera form." have to do with what we are discussing?Also, I never said that Diva transformed into Riku, I said that she wore his likeness. I also specified in the edit I made that it was with black hair. Since you seem to be so knowledgeable in the series, perhaps you can tell me why, when Diva was performing on tv, Says's friend back in Okinawa seemed to recognise Diva as Riku? You seem extremely determined to cut me down, even though the evidence is right there. What is your problem? My evidence as to Diva's ability to do this is quite weighty, as compared to your evidence against (of which you actually have none). Also, I've just read this:"Be respectful to others and their points of view. This means primarily: Do not simply revert changes in a dispute. When someone makes an edit you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than reverting it. Provide a good edit summary when making significant changes that other users might object to. The revision you would prefer will not be established by reverting, and repeated reverting is forbidden; discuss disputed changes on the talk page." You're clearly going against this.Spacelion 15:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Well then, tell me the episode number of the act and I'll rewatch it. My statements about "(other people)" was meant to imply that chevaliers can transform to other people. The "presumably" was tacked on because the only two chevalier I saw doing the transformation into other humans was Amshel and Rasputin(both Diva's chevalier). The part about chevalier transformation from human to chiroptera is not a presumption however.

The evidence that they have to take a blood of thier intended victim is weak, because there was only one alleged instance that I recalled them doing it, and it was Amshel. And he's a chevalier, not full blooded Chirotera. For all we know, he never had to drink the woman's blood and just took her disguise for for convenience's sake. She was the newest person the group knew and she had easy and free access to them. But this is all speculation which was my point in the first place.

And finally, anime articles on wikipedia are notorious for being speculative so that might have explained your perceived hostility and I apologize for that. I would rather have shortened summaries of the characters(and notable attributes) than a whole essay explaining the entire character's development during the entire series. Succinct and to the point is sometimes more effective than having too much information. After all, wikipedia is striving to be an encyclopedia, not an excuse to completely forgo watching the show/reading the manga altogether.--Chicbicyclist 07:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh I know, I never questioned the Chevalier being able to change between their forms, I just meant about their being able to change into other people. I imagine, though, that if they were indeed able to do this, the Chevaliers would have taken a great deal more advantage of this, don't you think? Anyway, I the episode where Diva performs is episode 48, "Skyscraper Opera". Even apart from that, in episode 49, Diva reverts from her "Kai looks" back to her true human self, her usual long hair, facial features, etc. Also, I apologise if I came across as slightly aggressive in my last post. I got a bit heated.--Spacelion 15:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

ok here i go we must assume that they (chevaliers) drink blood only to take another persons form for the point that even though a "chevy" IS a full blooded chiroptera just with a purer strain of what ever diva is giving out they do not need to ingest any sort of nutrition blood or otherwise as riku showed us during the five or so episodes he was a chevalier. we can also believe that chiroptera queens do not have a mutant form due to two facts.

1. no where in either manga or anime in time of dire need either Saya's forced starvation or Diva's bout with nymphomania had they transmogrified.

2. since chiroptera attacked by chevaliers or ingest Delta 47 become vampiric were-anteaters and chevaliers can mutate back and forth between human and were-anteater form that the queens have no ability to mutate.

but that whould not explain why the last chiroptera queen was found in full blown bat wing anteatery form! Deanostrodamus

Nathan

Hi, I was wondering what is the reference source that supposedly hinted Nathan as being a chevalier of Saya's/Diva's mother? --Remy Suen 03:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

There are two hints to this:

1.Nathan said this phrase in the last episodes, that there "may still be some chevaliers of twins(Saya/Diva) mother around".

2. Nathan was sliced with Saya's blood-infused sword and he didnt underwent Crystalization...and even more...At the last minutes we see him standing in the crowd. IF he was Diva's chevalier he shoulda be lying calm like a crystalic panda statue.

Solomon's Age

In 1918, when Solomon was made a chevalier soon after WWI, he had just begun his practice as a physician; and judging from his looks, he was probably in his twenties. So in 2007, he was probably 110+ years old instead of ~90 years old. --Lareine 09:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Blood+

I really like the anime and the manga. Its awsome!!! The discussion has more detail than the headlinings with the pictures. Anyway...... its still cool.

                                                              21:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)~
                                                               Youkia

Cataloging Characters

I was wondering, is the character page going to get fix up to so that it will be easier to find the characters that one is looking for? The way it is now, if someone was looking for info on lets say Kai Miyagusuku, one has to scroll down the page to get the info instead of just click on the name in the content list.

I think it would be beneficial someone fixed the page so that characters names appeared on the content list. I would try do it myself, but I don't have the time it would take to do the whole page.

I made a try at it, but in order to keep the same format, all the stuff about the name on that line shows up in the contents, so I didn't save it. Does anyone have suggestions on how the format could be restructured? Also note that this will make the contents part pretty long. --Eruhildo 04:44, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Saya's weapon

Because Saya's sword has an unusual shape, I am going to add that it has features "analogous to those of a kopesh," if that is alright.

Spoiler Warning

It would probably be helpful to include a spoiler warning at the top of the page. There might be some people who find their way here through links, and they might not have finished watching the series yet. 124.105.184.241 00:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I used to think spoiler alerts were needed, but Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a fan site. The aim is to provide accurate, verifiable information. Everyone please also note that this is a talk page, and there are guidelines, such as the person before talked about how he/she loves the anime and manga, which does not help improve the MAIN ARTICLE GinLime 02:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)GinLime

Diva a pedophile?

Diva looks like she's 16, Riku looks like he's 13. That's only 3 years. I think calling Diva a pedophile is going too far. Blacktiger9000 20:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Well she is over 100 years old, and 16 is the legal age of consent in Japan, not 18.

In that case I suppose I can head to Japan just for the purpose of doing some 16-ish year olds, and not be considered a pedophile. Facetious. All in all I'd say Haji exhibits tendencies of pedophilia, calling Diva one is stretching it for me. 70.19.29.65 06:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't call either of them pedophile. (Haji is younger than Saya and once looked like it too.) I think that part should be removed. --Eruhildo 19:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I would say neither too but if I had to choose it'll be Haji. He looks 20+, Saya looks 20-. I was just surprised to see it called pedophilia when besides her age Diva is essentially a child.70.19.29.65 22:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

From Deanostrodamus

first off diva isnt japanese if we are going by names diva is italian but since shes a super centenial in a unaged form of a human side species she can be and besides she does not live in japan so legal age whould not matter also pedophilia is also a state of mind not only a illegal hobby.

Separate articles for each main character?

User_talk:Horashe has created a stand-alone article for Saya Otonashi. It is almost a duplicate of the section List of Blood+ characters#Saya Otonashi. Do we really need to have separate pages for each anime character? Joeinwap 10:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I would say that there is enough already written for Saya, Haji, and Diva to have their own articles. I think enough could be written for Kai and maybe Riku to have their own articles as well. I think this page is kind of long and would be better if it were broken up that way. I think the Schiff could use their own article as well. --Eruhildo 19:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I see that the other page, Saya Otonashi, is no longer visible; it redirects to List of Blood+ characters#Saya Otonashi now. Joeinwap 10:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Update: I finished splitting Saya Otonashi from this article and added info on the Blood: The Last Vampire character. I'll work on the other main characters soon. --Eruhildo (talk) 00:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There should be enough out-of-universe information to justify separate character articles. As far as Saya goes, there should be an abundance of that out there and considering her character is central to not only the series but a movie and manga as well then having an article for her is necessitated. However, for Haji and the rest I don't think it's needed. Fox816 (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I insist, the Schiff deserve their own article...One of us has to make it...Well, I'll just edit it, that's the most I can do...

David's true identity...

Anyone else think he looks, acts, and sounds like David Bowie? Anyone? Seriously, how can you not see it?

Well he looks like him at the very least, to me anyway.

Fair use rationale for Image:Joel1st.jpg

Image:Joel1st.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Joel6.jpg

Image:Joel6.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Character Ages

Are the ages for the characters best guesses or are they offically stated somewhere? Because the Japanese version of the page says Kai is 17 at the start, and Riku is 14. Also, I didn't think 2 years had passed by the time of Riku's death. --Eruhildo 19:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I've checked the official website witch states that Kai is 17 years old at the start of the series, which makes sense because he was still in high school at the time. Riku's age was not listed. I did a quick search on Google for Riku's age and the first page of English sites said he was 13, but the first page of Japanese one said he was 14. Does anyone know which age is correct? --Eruhildo 19:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I thought it said that Kai actually LEFT high school to help his father in the Omoro.--SayaMan 16:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure about that? Kai was wearing the school uniform in the first couple episodes and in episode 2 Riku says, "Onii-chan no gakkou" (Eng: Kai's school) in reference to Saya's high school. Though it could have been mentioned in a later episode that Kai had dropped out. Do you know exactly where? I haven't watched much of the early episodes in a while. --Eruhildo 21:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I'm not sure, I believe that's what is written on japanese vestion of the page. Though i think that is true for MANGA version, don't recall such information about tv series. --SayaMan 12:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge

Does anyone else think List of minor Blood+ characters should be merged with this article? It seems kind of pointless to me to have two separate pages. I can't think of any other articles that do this. --Eruhildo 20:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge ahead. Fox816 16:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Okamura, Jahana and Lulu

The article states that in the last ep. all three are heading to the Middle East. I've watched a few last episodes but can't find any mention about that. Someone who knows the exact place, could you please help me to find it?  :/--SayaMan 01:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

When Kai is cutting Saya's hair in the last episode (about 16 minutes in), he tells her that Okamura and Mao are going to the Middle East; I guess to investigate a story or something. There is no mention of Lulu at all in that scene, nor is she mentioned going with the other two anywhere else in the episode. I've already fixed the descriptions. Thanks for pointing this out. --Eruhildo 03:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, i see it now, thanks. It's a pity that Lulu isn't going though)--SayaMan 12:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

How come

Saya never tried to just become a nice family with Diva? Just ask her to stop and be a family with her? Was this Asmael guy such a heavy influence?? Explain please:)

Life's usually not that easy. Diva did wipe out everyone Saya knew as family. Also Chiroptera made from Diva's blood were killing people and Diva's Chevaliers were causing trouble throughout the world (altering politics, etc.). Diva even impersonated Anastasia (see [1] Template:Ja icon). So Saya wasn't very happy with her for that stuff. But most importantly, Diva tricked Saya into letting her out (she killed everyone after that). Because of the pain her sister caused others, Saya felt that Chiroptera didn't belong in this world. The only way to rid the world of them forever was for Saya and Diva to both die. As for Amshel, he was a huge influence on Diva. Nathan explains in one of the last couple episodes that Amshel only saw Diva as a test subject and treated her as such. As a result of not receiving the love and care Saya did, she became cold and uncaring. Well, that's the best I can do. I hope it helps. --Eruhildo (talk) 01:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I think saya and the others could have done more if they got her away from them. But she was being maniuplated and also being "experimented on" (being screwed by other chevaliers to try to make a queen). Very sad and a double fault on both parties

True, but don't forget over a hundred years had passed by this point. Though seeing the way Diva treated her babies at the end makes me wonder if she might have changed if given the chance. Oh and don't forget to sign your posts with ~~~~ --Eruhildo (talk) 20:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

i kinda figured all that i just didn't want to think off it... anime is weird any way as far as i concieved since we dont know the actions diva exactly took after being freed we cant say she just went feral because when saya opened the door diva was in rags bat she was in a ball dress when saya came back. also how did diva know what to do like make a chevalier and why choose 5 guys all with the personalities of different dictators? Honestly i think amshel is the one obsessed with immortallity even though that doesn't explain why he protected diva or why he let a bunch of dudes including Rasputin to copulate with her all of this is very weird but then again anime is weird. i also suggest diva and amshel had a John Procter / Abigal Williams (the crucible) kind of relationship during her imprisonment. Deanostrodamus

hibernation of saya

Saya goes to sleep after being awake every 3-4 years. I wonder how did she get to watch Haji grow from 13-21 without going to sleep. Was it because she wasnt fully developed? Apparently she didnt hibernate while the 1st Joel was alive I suppose.

Princessmb november 26 2007

I think it has something to do with their fighting blood being activated. I'm fairly certain it has nothing to do with making a Chevalier as Diva had one longer than Saya did, but their sleep cycles matched - the likelihood of this is slim. I guess it could be to protect them from killing each other off too soon. Of course, nothing official has been released on this, so I'm just theorizing. --Eruhildo (talk) 18:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)