Talk:Rockefeller family

Nicholas Rockefeller

Any reason Nicholas Rockefeller is not on this list? (As if we didn't know) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.254.124.38 (talk) 11:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Founded?

What exactly does this first sentence mean? "The Rockefeller family, founded by John D. Rockefeller (1839-1937)..."

He was not the first Rockefeller, and how exactly do you "found" a family? This seems to be a nonsensical sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.151.209 (talk) 03:05, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Typical Wikipedia propaganda

No mention of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=2ZO&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=robber+baron+rockefellers&spell=1

Another hit on Wikipedias credibility. Sounds like the Rockefellers are donating to Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ergn (talk • contribs) 22:25, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to rectify this bias by adding a Criticism section User:Aequitas12345 —Preceding comment was added at 17:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

John D. Rockefeller V

There is no real assertion of WP:N on this page outside of being a member of the family. Ought to be redirected here instead of deleted, but I wanted to let it be discussed before I WP:Be Bold. -Jcbarr 22:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would have to disagree. Because John D. Rockefeller V is the direct descendant and namesake of John D. Rockefeller, people will want to know who the descending John D. Rockefellers are. If John D. Rockefeller V has a son John D. Rockefeller VI, he too would receive an article because of his name. --Caponer 20:28, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The family page does not currently contain any individual biographical information, but rather serves the purpose of directing people to individual pages they might want to look at. I would support deleting JDR5 before I'd support merging it, but I agree with Caponer that he's notable enough just because of his name (it's what brought me here). --BlueMoonlet 03:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List

After consulting the other Wiki language versions of this page that, I felt the list of Rockefeller family members was best displayed in the order of each Rockefeller's birth, followed by their children in birth order as well. I felt an alphabetical list of Rockerfellers was not very family-oriented and that the purpose of this page was to highlight how each Rockerfeller was related to one another. --Caponer 00:30, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Nicely done. --BlueMoonlet 03:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

name

Rockenfeld was first mentioned in 1280 as Rukenvelt, meaning a field on the top of a ridge (between Rhine Valley and Westerwald). The settlement Rockenfeld was abandoned after the last inhabitant had died in 1995. The buildings were completely destroyed, only exception is a memorial for the dead of the second World War.

Goddard Rockenfeller (*1682 in Wied (now Altwied), †1763 in Rocktown, NJ) was the first Rockenfeller immigrating to America. He had six children with his first wife Anna Maria (*1684,†1719). In 1723 he, his second wife Elizabeth Christina (since 1720) and five of his children left their home and settled in Hunterdon County, NJ.

From my perspective this may be an information of interest. In the last version before I added this, there was a wrong explanation given for the ethymology of the family name. If there are no objections, I'd like to insert this again.--Dagox 11:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is a general-interest encyclopedia; this is detail better suited for a genealogical site. It should be sufficient to note the name's connection to the German town and the person who brought the name to the US. Wikipedia is not a genealogical directory (official policy), and this is not the only page or article that goes into excessive detail. The important part of the article would be the history of how John D., William, and Frank established a business empire that made them notable and provided the opportunity for notability to their descendants. --Dhartung | Talk 22:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, this detail is not of interest here.--Dagox 14:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I'm questioning both origin stories -- obviously the Rockenfeld locals would like to promote their version, but there are numerous claims for the Roggenfelder origin and a particular descent from one Johann Roggenfelder. A better citation will be necessary, and perhaps an NPOV treatment of the competing claims. --Dhartung | Talk 22:44, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see a debate about this question: The variant Roggenfelder is mainly promoted in mirror pages of wiki's old version. It may be a false reconstruction of the original german name or an unusual variant of Rockenfeller, since no standart orthography for names was introduced in 1723.

The facts: Rockenfeller is a name frequently used in Germany, well localized in the district where Rockenfeld lies. In contrast, the name Roggenfelder is very rare in Germany - the 2003 telephone book shows 9 entries all over Germany - but the name is only found close to Rockenfeld [1]. In the Rockefeller Family Genealogy Forum [2], there are members that can reconstruct thier pedigree to Johann Peter Rockenfeller, e. g. [3]. In the whole forum no entry can be found relating to the name Roggenfelder. There's no hint that any of the american Rockefellers has an ancestor with the name Roggenfelder or to put it in another way: Johann Roggenfelder is the same person as Johann (Peter?) Rockenfeller in an unusual or wrong spelling.

Sources: The web page I linked claim to rely on The Transactions of the Rockefeller Family Association. The Rockefeller Archive [4] recommends among others Henry Rockefeller's Rockefeller Genealogy (available at [5]). Unfortunately I have no access to the books, so I couldn't check it. --Dagox 14:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at [6]. There you can reconstruct the Rockefeller genealogy from John D. up to Goddard in 1590. A reliable source is Scheiffarth, Engelbert. "Der New Yorker Gouverneur Nelson A. Rockefeller und die Rockenfeller im Neuwieder Raum." Genealogisches Jahrbuch, vol. 9, 1969, pp. 16-41. --Dagox 18:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

These are good points. An A9 search indicates that the Roggenfelder claim dates at least back to an H. L. Mencken book in 1936, attributed to Stephen Kekulé von Stradonitz (presumably a relative of the chemist), and it is widely propagated on Rockefeller-conspiracy web pages, so we should address it somehow. --Dhartung | Talk 19:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Scheiffarth, Engelbert. "Der New Yorker Gouverneur Nelson A. Rockefeller und die Rockenfeller im Neuwieder Raum." Genealogisches Jahrbuch, vol. 9, 1969, pp. 16-41, the oldest known documents about the Rockefeller family are the parish registers of the Neuwied region. They were documented by Philipp Rockenfeller (†1916 in WW I). Scheiffarth gave copies of the documents in 1963 to the Gouvernor Nelson A. Rockefeller. The spelling in the registers is most often Rockenfeller, sometimes Rockefeller or Rockenfelder.

The documents reach back to the Thirty Years' War, since older registers were destroyed during this period. Two of the genealogic tables are related to the american Rockefellers. I give a summary with the important persons:--Dagox 15:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I. Johannes (*ca. 1634, †2.8.1684 in Niederbieber). Second marriage 
   with Elisabeth Margaretha Remagen from Segendorf in 1678
   9. Johann Peter I. (*1682 in Rengsdorf). Married 
      Anna Maria Remagen from Segendorf (*1684, †1720) in 1717 in Niederbieber. 
      Second marriage in 1720 with Elisabeth Christine Runkel from Bonefeld. 
      They move in 1723 to Ringoes, NJ.
      2. Johann Peter II. (*22.3.1711 in Niederbieber), son of Anna Maria Remagen.
         (*) William (*1750). Married in 1772 at Germantown Christina Rockefeller (=II.2.4.4.(*), see below).
             (*) Godfrey (*24.9.1783). Married to Lucy Avery (family of english origin).
                 1. William Avery (*1810, †1906). Married to Eliza Davison (*1813, †1889). 
                    He was looking for noble descent and a servile genealogist "found" his pedigree back 
                    to the french family de Roquefeullie, who had had to flee France since they were 
                    huguenots. The legend says they had changed the french name to Rockenfeller when 
                    they had moved to Neuwied, altough the name of Rockenfeld is well documented long before.
                    2. John Davison.
II. Johann Wilhelm (*ca. 1628 in Ehlscheid, †24.7.1702 in Rengsdorf).
    2. Anton (or Tönges) (*ca. 1658, †18.7.1707 in Rengsdorf), married in 1685 in Rengsdorf Gertrud Pauli.
       4. Johann Thiel (Theil) (*1695 in Ehlscheid). Married to Anna Gertrud Alsdorf from Bonefeld.
          4. Johann Simon (15.1.1730 in Ehlscheid, †1795). Married to Anna Bähr. Moved in 1735 to Germantown, NY.
             (*) Christina.

philanthropy "undoubtedly the greatest"?

"The six-generation dynasty of John D. Rockefeller is undoubtedly the greatest philanthropic family in the United States, after Andrew Carnegie initiated the concept of major philanthropy in the 1880s. Its historical underpinnings are credited to John D.'s devout Christian mother Eliza Davison (1813-1889), who instilled in him the regular practice of tithing, which he began in 1855 when he started his first job as an assistant bookkeeper.[2]"

Not exactly neutral there, "undoubtedly the greatest", most money given to the best causes? Way off topic towards the end.
So I've changed it to "The Rockefeller family are noted for their philanthropy". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.4.223.79 (talk) 21:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

CARNIGIE IS THE GREATEST

Genealogical fraud

There is a very unusual form of genealogical fraud that appears to be in action here. I have removed a group of children from the list of descendents of William Rockefeller, to wit a purported descendent "Sarah Elizabeth Rose b 1958" and her three children. It appears that no such connection exists. Go here to see the list of the real descendents that James Stillman Rockefeller had. Wjhonson 02:48, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Completely unsubstantiated bias which I can't edit

"The family is also known for its long association with and financial interest in the Chase Manhattan Bank, now JP Morgan Chase. The family also has also been involved in multiple treasonous acts in order to push forward the New World Order agenda. The family's fortune is estimated to be between $130 billion and $13 trillion dollars, enough to buy half the world's countries and enough to buy off politicians, bankers, and corporations in order to push forward the family's fascist agenda."

From the first part of the article.

origin of money

moc.eivomtsiegtiez.www There is no mentioning in this article how they kept there money tree growing. For example we now this from I.G Farben company but not from the 'o so rich' Rockefeller family. Kind a strange isnt it?. Some history insights about this might be wise to make public. As it has a lot todo with some people's freedom.

Expand Criticism section ASAP

Much is lacking in criticism of this dominant capitalist family

As of Thurs, Dec 6th 4am, this article has two lines...two lines of critcism!!! Ludlow massacre etc...I shan't go on. Please add to this, as criticism sections are always very much important in adding other standpoints to any article. Let's get more than just "great philanthropy" up here please...possible whitewashing?

A proper Criticism section would be very welcome; delphic references to other Wikipedia articles (all that we had) are embarrassingly bad substitutes. Henry ^Flower 16:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is that better? Aequitas12345 12:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]