User talk:Ev

I will respond here, on my talk page, unless you request otherwise.

If I left you a message in your talk page, you can answer there: I will see it :-)

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Archive 1 - 2005-2007

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There is no conterdiction

Arvand was used for Tigris, The Shatt al-Arab was Tigris at that time, there was no distinction. Also, why are you removing the part about the river being a Persian territory until the time of Afsharids? At last, do not use words like "vandalism" to scare off your opponents in a content dispute, vandalism is the addition of "I poop on you" or similar stuff to articles, not a subjective disagreement over content. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.138.108 (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On the issue of vandalism, I responded in your talk page (diff.).
On the disagreement over content I moved the discussion to the article's talk page (diff.).
Regards, Ev (talk) 18:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ev, please look at what you are reverting. I had already reverted the anon[1][2], you simply blind-reverted all of my non-controversial improvements to the paragraph[3]. --07fan (talk) 19:05, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 07fan. I (almost) always look what I revert to, and I did look in this case. I had seen you revert 99.238.138.108's edit, and your modifications to the paragraph. It was not intended to be a blind revert :-)

When reviewing the changes, and aiming at brevity & simplicity, I thought that:

the addition of "the confluence of the Shatt al-Arab" was unnecessary just two paragraphs below the mention of "[the Shatt al-Arab is a river] formed by the confluence of the Euphrates and the Tigris";
describing it again as a "waterway" was also redundant, since both the first and second paragraph mention that it is one;
I preferred mentioning it as simply "Arvand", instead of the full "Arvand Rūd", because the article in Encyclopædia Iranica used only "Arvand" too (as does the verse of the Bahman Yast mentioned in the article's talk page). To avoid possible conflicts, I wanted the sentence to reflect as accuratedly as possible the wording of the source used.

On the other hand, now that I think of it, I like the change of "for" by "specifically to designate".

Sorry about being lazy and just reverting all... I was tired of writing the explanations to the anon, and hoped that just adding "respectfully" to my edit summary would magically make all what I mentioned above clear to any reader. I humbly apologize.

Do you think that we could use my version, with the sole addition of the "specifically to designate" part ? - Best regards, Ev (talk) 19:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, but I think "the confluence of the Shatt al-Arab" is is a good addition within the context of the paragraph, I fixed everything else.--07fan (talk) 19:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let's keep it then. Thank you for doing all the work :-) And, again, my apologies for not communicating properly. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 20:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re:On moving a page (Istok)

Yeah, I noticed that when I did it, I apologize. It wouldn't let me use the 'move' option, and at that point I lost my patience for a move request :P... Thanks, --Bolonium (talk) 22:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC) (post copied over)[reply]

Yes, I figured that it was a simple lack of patience. Don't worry about it :-) Just try not to do it again. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 22:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

cyrillic names

Hi I see that you agree on ptting the cyrillic names last on the infobox og Kosovo cities
Me too but there is a small problem
User :Bolonium is countinuing to put them first
I would deal with this myself but I am going to be a little busy till Saturday so I would appreciate if you could take a look at this
thank you very much--B.C. 09:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I answered in your talk page (diff.) - Regards, Ev (talk) 15:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation to join WikiProject Kosovo

I thought you might like to know that I've (re)started Wikipedia:WikiProject Kosovo to help coordinate editing and facilitate monitoring of Kosovo-related articles. I will be sponsoring the project. If you have any queries about it, please ask me on my talk page or use Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Kosovo.

If you wish to become involved, please feel free to do so - simply leave your username at Wikipedia:WikiProject Kosovo#Participants. One feature that you may find particularly useful is the public watchlist. If you click here you can see all the recent changes to articles listed on the watchlist.

There is still a lot of work to be done on getting the project off the ground, so your help would be welcomed. In particular:

The public watchlist needs to be populated with all Kosovo-related articles (and redirects), categories, images and templates. I've added as many as I've found so far but more need to be added.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Kosovo#Recognized content and Wikipedia:WikiProject Kosovo#Formerly ecognized content need to be populated.

If you can help out with these, it would be much appreciated.

-- ChrisO (talk) 23:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for dedicating the time necessary for re-starting the project in the right track, ChrisO :-) For starters, discussion there may well prove to be the solution to many of the recurrent edit wars over style issues.

For the time being I will concentrate in populating the public watchlist, following your example as to the alphabetic order. Best regards, Ev (talk) 14:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kosova: disambiguation page or redirect?

The article Kosova should redirect to Kosovo and there should be a disambiguation page for Kosova. Please understand that the term is widely used to refer to the country even in English.--70.241.0.212 (talk) 00:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I prefer the current disambiguation page, because I believe it's more usefull to our English-speaking readers than a simple redirect to "Kosovo". And I really like disambiguation pages :-) However, if you consider that it should become a redirect, simply raise the issue at Kosova's talk page, and try to gather consensus for such change. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 00:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quick heads-up

Just wanted to notify an admin active on Kosovo articles about [4] and [5]. I don't know what the consensus format is at the moment for these boxes, but either way bouncing between the two isn't doing any good. If you have time/inclination, could you drop in on them and let them know what the current position is ? It would be good if there were a page with details of how Kosovo-related articles are to be presented in the near future - maybe WP:KOSOVO? Thanks in advance for any help, Knepflerle (talk) 16:49, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Knepflerle :-) Thank you for bringing this up, I will deal with them.

There's no consensus yet on how to present articles on Kosovo, althought ChrisO mentioned that he wouldll "put together a manual of style for Kosovo placenames along the lines of WP:MOSMAC".

Your suggestion to work out clear guidelines at the Kosovo WikiProject is the obvious course of action; but to be honest, I dread to face the cascade of nationalist rants it will most certainly entail. *sigh* I will give it a try :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 17:34, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem ;) I don't envy the task of sorting it out (from which I happily recuse myself from lack of expertise/axes to grind). Looking at [6] this is happening sporadically form many different IP's, so it's going to keep people busy for a while. Hopefully at least if they are directed to the central scuffle over drafting a guideline they can argue there in a contained environment and it'll keep the heat and reverting off the articles! (And we might even get a happy simple Gdańzig-shaped rule in the end). Thanks and best of luck, Knepflerle (talk) 09:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kosovo municipalities

Hey there. I remember that a consensus was reached earlier that mentioned the names of Kosovo municipalities are in English/Serbian and then in Albanian. Now that a few countries have recognized that unilateral declaration of independence, does that change the municipality naming policy? I've noticed that Albanians are changing the names of municipalities throughout the entire article into Albanian names... Even those municipalities with a Serbian majority, like Leposavić. I'm just wondering what should be done. Thanks, --Bolonium (talk) 23:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, Kosovo's declaration of independence doesn't change anything: common English usage continues to be our guiding principle to mention names in the English Wikipedia. See my comments at the Kosovo WikiProject. - I'm afraid that my internet connection is not functioning properly right now, and there's no much that I can do. By the way, and just as a friendly remainder, remember that the three-revert rule remains valid also, so be patient and don't get yourself blocked :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 23:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian/Serbian Naming Convention: Kosovo

Dear Ev,

As per your message, I agree that for historical reasons, the English-speaking world recognizes Serbian nomenclatures of Kosovan cities, towns, villages, mountains, etc. Nonetheless, a NEW convention must be made. Because Kosovo is now independent and the primary language is Albanian (followed by Serbian, the second official language), then all the names should be in Albanian followed by the Serbian counterparts. This is the logical way to go because new historical events have always CHANGED things in the world. Kosovo's independence, a new historical event, will surely change the way the English-speaking world recognizes the new state. Therefore, Wikipedia should be as neutral as it could get, but it should also respect the new state, not the ways the English-speaking world know the new state...--Arbër 09:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Replied in ArberBorici's talk page. - Ev (talk) 09:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gjakova

Dear Ev,

Gjakova is a town in Kosova that has 0 % serbs. The first name that should appear in the page on this town, should be Gjakova, not Djakovica. Please revert it to Gjakova. How would you feel if Volgograd is still called Stalingrad? Thanks, Edvini —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edvini (talk • contribs) 11:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I replied at Edvini's talk page. Ev (talk) 18:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jebem ti srpsku majku

Sta ti mislis bre da si neki bog!!! Jebem ti wikipediu is sve sto je srpsko u njoj kao i tvoju majku. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kendobs (talk • contribs) 22:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand Serbo-Croatian. Please, write in English. - Regards, Ev (talk) 23:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, the Yugoslav lexicon of swear words gave me an idea of the general meaning of the comment... - Ev (talk) 04:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

History of Kosovo

Thanks! The move was urgent and that's why I made such a change. --Getoar (talk) 05:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do not mean to canvass here, but what do you think about certain Kosovar place-names being written in Albanian instead of Serbian.

First of all, I’d prefer Kosova (with the accent on the second syllable) because that’s how the overwhelming majority of the population says it (and not only Albanians). However, I am skeptical of a possible change on this aspect.

Second, the name of capital should be Prishtina as it would reflect both the primary official usage and the English pronunciation/spelling (no English speaker gets it right the first time they see Pristina, but they get Prishtina). In any case it should not be Priština with the diacritic.

Third, when it comes to towns like Skenderaj (Serbian: Srbica) and Drenas (Sr. Glogovac), one should note that the names have officially been changed just like in the case of Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) and Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City). There are virtually no Serbs living in these towns and it’s unnecessary to use the Serbian names, given that they do not constitute any historical significance in the English language (like the case Germany vs. Deutschland). English speakers even adopted the change from Constantinople to Istanbul, despite the heavy use of the earlier name.

Fourth, many Wikipedia editors have told me that it is our aim to use the most frequent English names on all articles, but so far this rule has not been respected. E.g. Priština is less frequent than Prishtina and it is used on Wikipedia articles. The use of Serbian names over general English usages or the Albanian names as primary official ones is purely POV.

Finally, this is one of my main Wikipedia concerns I and would like to initiate a change through a balanced and neutrally-monitored discussion.--Getoar (talk) 06:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, do I need to remove the discussion section from the talkpage?--Getoar (talk) 06:19, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did remove it. Thank you!--Getoar (talk) 06:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

University of Priština

I don't understand how you still regard the University of Prishtina as an institution in Serbia. Serbs may claim Kosovo, but it is a fact that they don't have it. I would actually propose a split here. Keep the main article for the University of Prishtina in Prishtina since it corresponds with the name of the city, is bigger and accredited with the government of Kosovo. The article would also refer to a second article dedicated to the Serbian university.--Getoar (talk) 05:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I don't regard the university as an institution in Serbia anymore. The addition of {{Serbian universities}} was just one of the many mistakes I constantly do in Wikipedia: I simply hadn't noticed the template's title ("Universities in serbia"). - Thank you for pointing it out. I have removed it now.

As for splitting the article, for the moment I think that it would entail more problems than it would solve. Right now the article has much more content on the pre-1999 situation and the details of the ulterior coexistance of both paralell institutions than content about the current work of each one of them.

A split would leave us with three articles: a long one on the whole history and current odd situation, and two small ones on each institution, with odd names for disambiguation (University of Priština in Priština, and University of Priština in Kosovska Mitrovica ?). - Or with two articles, which would for the most part repeat the exact same information, and would differ only in the short description of the current organization & statistics.

Of course, an article split will eventually happen. But I don't think this is the right moment yet: with the current content, I think that our readership would be best served with this single comprehensive version. With time, as the article evolves, a point will be reached in which our readership will benefit more from something more than a single article, and everyone will support splitting it in some form or another.

Well, that's just my opinion, of course :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 08:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for trying to understand the situation now. Nevertheless, I removed now links and categorization that have to do with Serbia. I will try to propose a total rewriting of the article, since its current form is POV. It talks about the Albanians as if they had usurped the university campus and ousted the Serbs, and the Serbs are always listed first despite being a parallel institution with apparently smaller student body and other assets. And, the references are completely Serbian and POV, except for those that refer to the number of students and some rather trivial matters. The Serbs could also have their University of Vienna in Mitrovica, but that would remain in Mitrovica and would not challenge the legality of University of Vienna.--Getoar (talk) 18:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Names of cities in Kosovo

I see that you are interested in name issues and would like to know what is the WP policy for city names. I feel we are using wrong names on Kosovar cities and I am very suspect this is happening due to the large number of Serb wikipedians and low number of Albanian wikipedians. --Noah30 (talk) 00:27, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Replied at Noah30's talk page. - Ev (talk) 15:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey

Np. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Consenus breached, need support

Hello Ev, contrary to a reached consensus there is a splitting going on instead a merging: Talk:Kosovo#Split completed. And I would appreciate your assistance. Thank you! --Tubesship (talk) 05:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Tubesship. I'm having a busy week, but I will be paying attention to the issue. Best regards, Ev (talk) 17:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wish you had done like you said instead of fighting against the consensus by writing "let's scrap the infobox". Sorry, it was my mistake to be wrong about your mindset. --Tubesship (talk) 07:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tubesship, I'm not fighting for or against anything. I'm merely endorsing what I think is a great proposal to slowly work towards an article that complies with our core policies. Keep in mind that an infobox is just a practical but redundant summary of an article's content. If removing one simplifies the process of writing the text, let's scrap it, and then, after the article is successfully written, let's discuss how (and if) to summarize its content in a "pretty infobox". - Regards, Ev (talk) 16:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, and what is your standpoint about the flag of the newest state in the article Kosova? Should this also be "scrapped"? --Tubesship (talk) 18:15, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course not, why on Earth should the flag or any of the information mentioned in the infobox be removed from the article ? It just doesn't need to be repeated in an infobox that appears to be causing much more problems than it is worth. Instead, everything would simply be mentioned in the appropriate sections of the article. For instance, the flag could be displayed in the section dealing with the 2008 declaration of independence.

After the article is finished we can spend a whole month discussing in detail what kind of infobox to use to summarize the article. We could also just restore the current one, but placing it in the 2008 UDI section instead of the top of the page. Or do something else.

The main point is that there's no need to have an infobox, and if it stands in the way of having a meaningful collaboration in one single, unified, comprehensive article, I share Fut. Perf.'s view that it's better to remove it. - Regards, Ev (talk) 18:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, at least about the flag we agree. I thought you want to have it like in the Serbian WP, where neither an infobox nor a flag of Kosovo in the article Kosovo exists. Still I find it better to have 2 infoboxes presenting both sides instead of no one at all. This would be a temporarily compromise. --Tubesship (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"That hellish infobox"...

I couldn't resist the temptation. :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Although I see the problems the infobox may cause to some people I think it would be wrong to just avoid them instead of solving them together. Avoiding would neither help the article nor the reader. --Tubesship (talk) 07:57, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LOL That a picture is worth a thousand words remains as true as ever. And if the results are this good, let's hope that a perfect future doesn't include learning to resist to such impulses :-) Regards, Ev (talk) 16:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Way you are maken this

Way you are maken this chanche. Ther is a map Serbia. They have some rouls of travelig in this Stat and Kosovo hase owen roul of traveling. Betwen this two Stats it is a border. --Hipi Zhdripi (talk) 00:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]