Talk:Responsible illegal drug use

I

I realize that many people can't wait to VfD this. I'm asking you to please discuss your reasons here on the talk page first. DryGrain 08:29, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Actually, this version seems much better than the Oath page. I'm still VfDing your other SoBe pages, though.DS 22:01, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Oath?

Is the oath a joke? Are you kidding? That content does not belong in here. It does not adhere to any Wikipedia rule: it seems to be original research, and has no sources. It can be easily seen the bias toward drug use the person who wrote it has... perhaps who added thta section was under the influence at the time of editing. That section will be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBGM (talk • contribs) 14:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

After reading other user's comments, it seems many editors agree that "the oath" does not belong in here. The entire article is questionable. Since nobody has deleted "the oath", I'll do it now. Whoever wants to preserve it better come up with a very good argument. --JBGM (talk) 18:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

addenda

I like this page also much better than the "oath". The latter is not encyclopedic, IMO. This one is.

According to my personal set of rules I am using successfully since about 18 years by now, I am missing the following statements for responsible drug use:
- Not taking any irreversible (or just important) decisions while not sober (editorial: best to be put after "Not driving, ..."; in fact, that point is a special case of this one, since those actions can lead to irreversible outcomes)
- Not taking drugs daily; and even exceptionally (which means less than twice a year) not for more than 3 days in succession, especially not one and the same substance at the same time of day and/or in a similar context. After such an exceptional excessive event give the body at least 2 weeks time to detoxify. (For many people a simple rule for this one is just: "Don't use drugs on weekdays.")
- Not taking drugs for the purposes of improving a depressed mood, calming aggression, nervousness, or anxiety, or overcome sleep disturbances. All these conditions should be considered medical and treated professionally by a doctor. (Self-improvised "treatment" using recreational drugs will only worsen the condition in the long run.)
(outside edit:these ideas are at the very least controversial sometimes this is a persons only option)
- Not taking drugs just because others do.
- Be attentive to symptoms of addictionality: if your craving for some drug (can be also non-chemical, such as computer games, sex etc.) is increasing while your satisfaction from it's use is decreasing, stop using it immediately for at least 1-2 months! After that, be extremely careful!

Last but not least I'd like to give my two cents to the arguments of those opposing any possibility of responsible drug use in general:
I am fine with this position, IF those don't drive (not only motorcycles, but also cars), don't smoke, don't drink alcoholic beverages, don't overeat or eat unhealthy (no sweets etc.), don't do any sports more dangerous than running in the woods, don't engage in any risky sexual behaviour, and most importantly, don't hurt others by any means.
I admire everyone who meets these criteria! I don't.
However, experience shows that these people usually are not the ones denying the freedom of others to use their drugs of choice. Usually the opponents live either a risky life by themselves and just underestimate their own risk-taking while overestimating the risk-taking of others. Or they are the ones chronically "improving" others in any case out of a deep conviction to be the best human being which ever lived on earth. Both types of people shall stay away from me as far as possible!

--DA 07:30, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

That didn't look like much of an agenda... here's one though:

• break this page up into sections... i.e. defining reponsible drug use, drug use versus drug abuse, separating reasonable goals from ideal goals
• more distinction from the drug user's oath page... this looks like a re-write of it --Thoric 22:31, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This is a nit-picking point, but when you're saying that "The philosophy of responsible drug use—which applies to alcohol, tobacco, and medical products as much as to any other drugs—asserts that to use drugs responsibly one must adhere to the following principles:" "Not making irreversible or otherwise important decisions while under the influence"

Are you seriously saying that no one should make any important decisions while under the influence of medical drugs?

Merging seems needed

Yes, merging the 2 seems useful, to get the best of both versions, for instance. Korky Day 07:02, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Done, SqueakBox 16:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Edit

I have added a bit about the deaths caused through the cocaine trade, which some call irresponsible drug use by the users and others blame on governmebnts for making cocaine illegal and thus highly profitable to the criminal mind. The Times reckon 3,000 deaths a year are caused inm this trade (though they appeared to be referring exclusively to Colombia) whereas the number of deaths in the Americas alone I would put as at leastn 10 times that, ie 100 a day. I have removed the bit about not making impoprtant decisions while under the influence as being hopelessly inaccurate. One could argue, especially with cannabis, that one should consume it before making an important decision, assuming one has substantial experience of the drug, SqueakBox 16:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Criticisim as first section?

Dose it strike anyone else as inapropriate that the first section is on the criticisms of the subj. or am I just looney? AP 01:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Duplicated content

The contents of the "Criticisms" section and the "Recreational drug use: can it be responsible?" sub-section from the "The Responsible Drug User's Oath" section are almost the same, and it looks like one is just a re-worded version of the other. I believe the "Recreational drug use: can it be responsible?" sub-section should be removed, since it's just re-stating what was mentioned before. 66.60.1.153 04:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Does this belong on wikipedia?

First of all, let me emphasis what I do not explicitly agree or disagree with the content of the article. My objection to this article has nothing to do with the morality of drug use. My problem with the article is that it doesn't seem to deserve its own article. The article seems to semi-imply that this is some sort of movement as opposed to just some random opinions put up on everything2. At the very least add some more references that backs up this as being notable enough to deserve its own article. If this cannot be done, the article content should in my personal opinion be merged with an article on drug use. That having been said, I'm not going to VfD it but would agree with such a vote if it became an issue under the current circumstances. Debolaz 16:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

An article on responsible drug use certainly belongs on WP. About half the drug-users I know (to any significant extent) adhere to such a philosophy, while the other half does not. There is a significant difference between the two in terms of how their lives have turned out. Citing the Everything2 node is relevant, but there should be other references added as well. Harm reduction is a well known approach, and responsible drug use is kind of orthogonal to that, which is why it deserves its own article. Zuiram 04:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Please realize that Wikipedia isn't some place where people can write whatever comes to mind. It has to have notability, and satisfy other requirements clearly documented in Wikipedia policies. Some random essay on how to be a responsible drug user simply isn't what Wikipedia is intended for. Debolaz 13:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Responsible Drug Use most definitely deserves its own page on WP. Currently there is a major project called The North American Opiate Medication Initiative, which has set up test sites in three other countries, along with Canada. Their basic premise is that true harm reduction is actually giving people the real thing: pure heroin. This is very much in line with responsible drug use. In fact, I live directly above the Canadian testing site and know a lot about it. When I have a bit more time I would like to add the NAOMI Project's findings to date on this page and list its' main objectives, one of which is to challenge the notion that giving people the actual drug is somehow going to ruin their lives or that it is an IRRESPONSIBLE act. OneWomanArmy923 19:43, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

This article is, as the original poster pointed out, not really about any tangible or documented movement, but rather something that someone has dreamt up, probably whilst (responsibly) using a wide variety of psychotropic substances. Some bits should be merged with harm reduction (if it aint there already...), the rest should be deleted. Quite simply, it is a nonsense article, written by people who know very little about "responsible drug use" or how to promote it... 82.19.66.37 13:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Although I am in favor of harm reduction and believe that drug use can be made relatively safe (although most people won't care, but that's another story), this topic doesn't deserve its own article. Some content can be merged into Harm Reduction, and maybe into Recreational Drug Use, but most should be deleted.208.102.122.87 (talk) 15:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense assertions

"Measuring accurate dosages and taking other precautions to reduce the risk of overdose" OK, as a general rule, this is virturally impossible to do. Unless you are buying pharaceutical drugs, there will be no effective way to "measure accurate doses". Street drugs are not quality controlled, they are mixed in a backstreet chemist. One pill, or one gram, may be significantly stronger than another pill or gram coming from the exact same batch. And this assumes that you have the equipment to accurately test the drugs (which you probably don't). To imply that the above possible is wishful thinking...

"Taking the time to chemically test all drugs being consumed to determine purity and strength" Again, there is no accurate way to chemically test most drugs. even the police have to send drugs to their forensic services to be tested.

Both these comments should be taken out now. Along with 90% of the rest of this ridiculous article....82.19.66.37 13:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

There are many precautions you can take while using a substance, illegal or not. Your premise that even pharmaceutical drugs are somehow 'safe' because they've been tested still does not account for error. Even amongst pharmaceuticals there are deviations in quality as well as other variables such as shelf life, tampering etc. There is no absolute way regardless of what you're doing that doesn't involve some risk. We're talking about responsibility. Every consumer has to take at least some measure of responsiblity when taking ANY substance, whether it's from the street or from a pharmacy pill bottle. There is one factor common to all : human error. To scrap an article based on this seems a bit rigid.--OneWomanArmy923 20:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

People die from heroin overdoses because they fail tot ake basic precautions, like testing the quality by consuming a little bit instead ogf going for the high and consuming a large amount without knowing how strong it is. The addictiver nature of the drug greatly exacerbates this problem, SqueakBox 20:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Now, these are quite different arguments. Harm reduction is all well and good, but to imply that one can be "safe" by abiding to the "responsible drug users oath" is ridiculous. This is not consistent with a good harm reduction philosophy, it is consistent with someone making something up that they like the sound of and putting it in an encyclopedia because they can. The only harm reduction message that should be sent out about street drugs is that they are not quality controlled. Yes, take a small dose first, but don't kid yourself that you are "measuring an accurate dossage", because you are not. Stating that pharmaceutical drugs are not 100% safe (probably closer to 99.9%) does not discount the fact that street drugs are extremely unsafe. This article is irresponsible and what little good content there is in it should be merged with Harm reduction. 82.0.206.215 (talk) 16:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

"The Oath"

I don't see how this oath (in its entirity no less) belongs on Wikipedia. The section should be deleted. Drcwright 02:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Really, this whole article doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Debolaz 14:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm n full agreement actually. If anything, it can be one sentence in the recreational drug use article. Drcwright 00:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Sources

This articles seems to cite sources in two different styles -- one old-fashioned footnote and several A.P.A. style citations. I don't know wikipedia style well enough to edit it into whichever single style it should be, but someone should do so. Responsible drug use is a very important issue to those of us who are researchers in the field of drug policy and drug use behaviour. It also apparently is something of a movement now. I receive emails from an organization called INPUD (I don't know what the acronym stands for) which has sponsored a rather large international conference here in Europe every year for the last several years. Manny (talk) 06:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)