Talk:Eleusinian Mysteries

"sport, paedophilia and a dodgy ritual?"

...as well as one of the three mainstays of Greek classical culture, the Olympic Games and pederasty (in certain areas) being the other two.

Are you seriously suggesting that Classical Greek culture boiled down to sport, paedophilia and a dodgy ritual? adamsan 20:04, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I, too, consider that part to be a little far fetched, if not a plain POV. The sentence should at least include a reference such as "according to ..." But I'm still sure that Greek classical culture has more to it than these three aspects. Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 01:29, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yoink! adamsan 17:58, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

While I agree with both of you I hardly think that the Eleusinian Mysteries are 'a dodgy ritual', unless you regard things like the Eucharist as 'a dodgy ritual' too. The Mysteries are at the heart of Greek worship! ThePeg 22:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Corn?

"Following this section of the Mysteries was the Pannychis, an all-night feast accompanied by dancing and merriment. The dances took place in the Rharian Field, rumored to be the first spot where corn grew."

Corn? I think you should make clear that corn back then was any staple food grain, and not the corn, maize.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamsan (talk • contribs) 17:58, August 17, 2004 (UTC)

Iacchus and Dionysus

According to the article stub Iacchus, the identification of Iacchus with Dionysus is uncertain. However there seems to be long-standing identification of the two according to the quotes given at Greek Mythology: IACCHUS / IAKKHOS. From memory Jane Ellen Harrison discusses the prominence of Dionysus in the Greater Mysteries at some length in her Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion (but I don't have the book in front of me). Is there some reason that I'm unaware of for doubting either the identification of Iacchus with Dionysus, or Dionysus' prominence in the rites? I believe (again, I would need to track down sources) that Dionysus/Iacchus/Zagreus is of major importance in the Orphic Mysteries as well. Fuzzypeg 00:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity Restrictions

Was it possible for anyone regardless of ethnicity to become an initiate in the Mysteries or was it restricted to Greeks? Obviously my question is mostly relevant for the Roman age. Could Romans become initiated> Lucius Domitius 13:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The Eleusinian initiation was open to anyone who could afford it. Cicero, who was initiated there, writes "I don't mention the holy and august Eleusis, where people from the remotest shores are initiated." (De Natura Deorum, I.119 , "Omitto Eleusinem sanctam illam et augustam, ubi initiantur gentes orarum ultimae"). L'omo del batocio (talk) 16:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

I think this article needs to be divided into sections, to break up that huge mass of text. It's currently very hard to read, and hard to know where to put new text.

I suggest the Mysteries section be broken down in the following manner: begin with a brief description of what events were held and when; move on to a section describing what the events were known to symbolise, and giving a bit more detail about the proceedings; and continue on to a section dealing with theories and interpretations. Fuzzypeg 01:50, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, go for it. --Heah ^talk 03:00, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA

A clean-up tag and no references are why I've failed this. Wiki-newbie 16:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Shibboleth?

Yes, only Greek speakers were initiated, but how does that relate to shibboleth? The implication is that there was some trick question asked of postulants, a test of pronunciation or meaning that foreigners would unwittingly fail. Surely this is not the case? It was a simple matter of not allowing non-greek speakers? Fuzzypeg☻ 20:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

5. It is stable.

   

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:

In reviewing this article compared to the criteria listed at WP:WIAGA, I found the following issues:

• The lead does not adequately summarize the article. It should touch briefly on each section of the article.
• The use (or not) of the serial comma needs to be consistent throughout the article.
• There also needs to be a consistency in wikification of centuries. The century in the lead is not wikified.
• The article could use some additional wikification.
• ..."and probably will be forever." is not very encyclopedic. I recommend rewording.
• References need to be consistently formatted per WP:CITE.
• The article appears to have a lot of OR. Further use of inline citation would remedy this.

I am placing the nomination on hold for no more than seven days to allow time for improvements to be made. Let me know if you need any help or have any questions by either responding here or dropping a line on my talk page. Regards, Lara♥Love 05:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

All issues have been addressed. I have listed the article at WP:GA. Thank you for your hard work. In improving the quality of this article, you have improved the quality of Wikipedia. Best regards, Lara♥Love 18:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

needs to be cleaned up some, I've never edited pages, so if someone can do it that would be great. Someone slandard the last sentence of the page. Thanks, -B —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.66.26 (talk) 19:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion the current article, while decent, is not GA material. The relevant scholarly debate isn't even sketched and marginal, controversial views are given undue weight. Perusing Burkert's book, which was added as a reference only a few days ago, may provide a starting point for substantial improvements. Just to give an example, Synesius' famous quote of Aristotle's views on the Mysteries isn't currently mentioned. The article should provide a context where such crucial information can be meaningfully inserted. L'omo del batocio (talk) 10:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

summer or winter?

When they told me of Demetra and Persephone as a child, they taught me that Kore lived with Hades during the winter months. It seems logic. Why should ancient Greeks consider summer a dead period?

Matt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.19.93.38 (talk) 14:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

There's a lot of scholarship that debates the two different interpretations. It would be sensible for the article to note the controversy. I recall running across one or two good refs pertaining to this topic on JSTOR. Robert K S (talk) 03:55, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

"/According to the prevailing version of the myth, Persephone had to remain with Hades for four months while staying above ground with her mother for a similar period. This left her the choice of where to spend the last four months of the year and since she opted to live with Demeter, the end result was eight months of growth and abundance to be followed by four months of no productivity./"

"/The Eleusinian Mysteries probably included a celebration of Persephone's return, for it was also the return of plants and of life to the earth. Persephone had gone into the underworld (underground, like seeds in the winter), then returned to the land of the living: her rebirth is symbolic of the rebirth of all plant life during Spring and, by extension, all life on earth./"

Is is clear that winter is the dead season? FenixEden (talk) 23:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)