Talk:Ku Klux Klan

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History in the States

I am sure the people writing here know more of the subject than I. However I was trying to write a section in the Ohio history article about the KKK and was wondering if anyone had any links I could use. It was removed because they said at first is was nothing more than trivia. So is there anyone who could like to help me write a small section? I was thinking that all states that had historical klan membership should be linked to this article. --Margrave1206 (talk) 15:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I recommend you David Chalmers' book Hooded Americanism, he describes the second Klan state by state. - Darwinek (talk) 14:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Kenneth T. Jackson's Ku Klux Klan in the Cities is also a valuable resource. He goes beyond cities but also notes data about how urban the Second Klan was.--Parkwells (talk) 23:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Knights of The KKK is not racist

I would like to point out that the group mentioned "Knights of the Ku Klux Klan" is not a racist organization, but a group promoting white pride and heritage. This can be misleading to people not familiar with this organization. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.247.21.111 (talk) 04:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, it depends on the point of view. ;) - Darwinek (talk) 10:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

.Well I think his point of view is racist... admit your the real founder of the kkk... black pride!!

if you dont want to be perceived as racist then dont call yourslef knights of the kkk its as simple as that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.149.246.185 (talk) 00:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah!! the kkk is a racist thing! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.3.94 (talk) 03:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Do KKK really call themselves Christians? It offends me that they overlook the verses in the Bible that say ALL people are equal.. And don't try to say that African Americans aren't people. Because it's been proven that they are just as Human as any Caucasian, or ANY other person, for that matter, and deserve the same rights as everyone else. KKK is racist. It's no different than the Nazi's view, that white people are "superior." Pride is fine. I for one am white, but I say that people of ALL races should have pride in their heritage. All people are equal. No matter their beliefs, outisde appearances, whatever. --The Wolfe22 (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

You guys are soapboxing and making comments that are not about the article. They can be removed.--Parkwells (talk) 15:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

"In Popular Culture" section

This needs to either be expanded by a huge amount or removed entirely... Two pop culture mentions is pathetic given the huge amount of KKK references that are out there (it's a great target for parody.) There's also already a long section at Ku Klux Klan regalia and insignia. What do you guys think? I almost think Ku Klux Klan in popular culture could be its own article... Hmmmmmmm... Grandmasterka 07:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The section was only added recently. I agree it needs expanded. There should definately be a mention of Ari Shaffir, a brilliant (in my opinion) Jew Jewish comedian. He did a piece in his series 'The Amazing Racist' in a Ku Klux Klan robe, it was hilarious and has had many hits on youtube. --God Save the South (talk) 07:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

• My opinion is that "in popular culture" sections and articles are just ridiculous. (See discussion at Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles) --Dystopos (talk) 14:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
• I agree. This article is already long, so Popular Culture should not be added here. Leave it with KKK regalia and insignia. --Parkwells (talk) 20:21, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it belongs here, its place is in the KKK article, not one on its regalia. --God Save the South (talk) 09:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Jew comedian? I'm not even going to bother asking for an apology. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, another editor changed it to "Jewish", but I reverted the edit, because I suspected "Jew comedian" is precisely what GSTS intended to say. StAnselm (talk) 22:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It's gotta go (the section). It adds absolutely nothing to the article as whole. Baegis (talk) 21:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have changed 'Jew comedian' to 'Jewish comedian'. Hopefully we can put that issue behind us now and obtain a consensus on the issue at hand, whether or not to include a Popular Culture section. --God Save the South (talk) 22:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I would say no to a popular culture section. The article is already long enough and I don't think such a section would add much.--Parkwells (talk) 03:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Unprotection

From what I remember, protection was orginally put in place due to edit warring over whether to call Cross lighting Cross burning. Now that that debate has finished, and consensus found for now, can the article be unlocked so that we might all get back to improving it? --God Save the South (talk) 01:05, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It would be best for you if you brought every change you plan on making to this talk page before editing. Short of gross misspellings or grammatical errors, of course. If you can agree to that, then the article should be unprotected. Baegis (talk) 03:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

It was more or less over edits such as this that were made by other editors. I'm willing to unprotect on the basis that the editors have moved elsewhere, and that they have noticed that pointless edit warring only leads to full protection. seicer | talk | contribs 01:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

So, you are implying that I (and the other editors who reverted the same nonsense) was the reason for this protection? I surely hope that is not what you are implying by that diff. Surely I am mistaken. Baegis (talk) 01:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Oops! I posted the wrong diff. Thanks for pointing out that! seicer | talk | contribs 01:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Miscategorization

This article should not be in Category:U.S. State Department designated terrorist organizations, as the Klan has not been designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization. In fact, to Americans, the Klan isn't even "foreign." --71.191.135.128 (talk) 03:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It's been removed.--Parkwells (talk) 21:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Five Klan Eras?

Several scholars and some of the Klans themselves refer to five eras of KKK activity. Why reduce that to three?--Cberlet (talk) 18:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

This is supposed to rely on third-party, peer-reviewed scholarly sources, not groups' self appraisals. Given the intense attention and sometimes warfare on this site (it was blocked against all editing for some time), I recommend that you post your proposals for change, with sources, before doing such drastic editing to the main article. It's not clear what purpose would be served, since it seems there have been two major periods - post Civil War and 1915-1930s, with various small groups after that. Yes, they continued to murder in the South and destroy property, but there is no point in giving them publicity.--Parkwells (talk) 20:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC

Well, since the current page reflects social science on organized white supremacist groups that is about 20 years out of date, I thought I was suggesting scholarly cites, but in case you have not read any recent literature, you might glance at David Chalmers. Backfire: How the Ku Klux Klan Helped the Civil Rights Movement. Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2003.

Also note that another page on Wikipedia already references the Fifth Era KLan [here].--Cberlet (talk) 23:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I did not start this article, so don't know why the original editors used three major periods. The Klan is not a chief interest of mine, but my interest has been to try to show how Klan activity came out of other social tensions and context, rather than focus on every act of violence or only their story about themselves, or the most favorable quotes. I just wanted to let you know that there has been a lot of controversy over the article, with editing wars. Thanks for the reference suggestion above. The barely stub article you linked to has no sources, so no reference for the "Fifth Era" KKK.--Parkwells (talk) 13:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, I will round up a bunch of scholarly cites and provide them. Most sociologists who write about the KKK and other organized White Supremacist groups refer to five eras. This is not to promote the KKK, but to describe them as a socio-political movement with different phases of growth, ideological shifts, and reframings.--Cberlet (talk) 11:19, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone will be willing to undertake a major rewrite of the article. You can see from the sources that most were historians (which is my background) as opposed to sociologists (they may likely have drawn from sociologists, too, but their own books were considered histories.) That's not to say that there is not material to learn from sociologists, but the article is very long already. It's not up to me to decide, but you had better try to get a consensus here before making major edits.--Parkwells (talk) 14:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

KKK v. white paramilitary organizations

After the first KKK was subdued during Reconstruction, white southern efforts to overturn Republican rule did not cease. Some historians have said that for all of the KKK's notoriety, white paramilitary groups that arose during the 1870s, such as the White League in LA, Red Shirts in MS, NC and SC; and rifle clubs throughout the South were more organized, effective and important in achieving political aims of overthrow of the Republican Party in the South. I think there should be mention of them in that respect in this article, but wanted to propose it here first. One historian described them as "the military arm of the Democratic Party" and instrumental in achieving the final overthrow of Republican rule and suppressing the black vote enough for white Democrats to regain office.--Parkwells (talk) 21:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The irony in your statement is beyond belief. Now the Democratic Party's nominee may well be black. But I digress. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

It's not the irony of my statement, but the ironies of history - one of the first was the realignment of conservative white Democrats with the Republicans. Studying history should temper anyone's sense of immutabilities.--Parkwells (talk) 14:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Just a reminder

As horrible as some of us may think this is, let's keep a neutral viewpoint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saberwolf116 (talk • contribs) 23:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Far-right

• So how are they considered far right when they stand in opposition to everything the far right stands for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.197.131.27 (talk) 02:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

They don't. They stand in favor of everything the far right stands for. Yahel Guhan 21:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC

But under "political influence" is specifically says that political klansmen were in favor of many "progessive" causes. I'm removing the Far-right designation until a consensus can be reached - or not, it's locked. 71.232.60.16 (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

All new material needs sources

Where are the "Sources" for the sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.126.200 (talk) 20:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

People who add material without sources will find it quickly removed. Editors have worked hard to base the article on reliable third-party sources, not on opinion and anecdote.--Parkwells (talk) 12:21, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

i really wish you guys would shut up

Citation, please, for 'A federal grand jury in 1869 determined the Klan was a "terrorist organization." '

I am doubtful that a grand jury labelled the KKK a "terrorist organization" in 1869, as that terminology was not in common English usage at that time.

The word "terrorist" was not commonly used in English until 1947, according to this source:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=terrorist&searchmode=none

..."Terrorist in the modern sense dates to 1947, especially in reference to Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine"...

Please provide a citation to the actual jury findings. The use of quotation marks implies literal verbiage that seems very unlikely.

Kevindraz (talk) 06:41, 17 May 2008 (UTC)