Talk:Bataireacht

Total unmitigated horseshit

This whole article is absolute horseshit not one word of truth in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.125.97.214 (talk) 16:36, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

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So much for: "Be polite, Assume good faith, No personal attacks, Be welcoming" : ) But if you won't even sign your name well... Anyway, the points made are verifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnWHurley (talk • contribs) 04:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

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Honestly John, I respect your contribution to the martial art and I respect the living tradition of Whiskey Stick Dancing. But this article (which I'm guessing is mostly your doing) is spectacularly biased. I've seen countless period pictures showing batas held in one hand. This is an extremely negative offering and the author clearly has abandoned "Be polite, Assume good faith, No personal attacks, Be welcoming". Wikipedia is not the proper forum for your personal vendetta against Ken.

I'm going to make some deletions and flag it as biased in the hopes that other people will come along and add to it.

(Alleyward (talk) 18:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC))

whoever you are, you like ken, don't appear to respect anything but your own agendas, which is why i felt forced to re-do the stub that I had started after others (possibly you) had changed the facts to fit their rather ignorant beliefs about Irish stick-fighting. You admit that you don't know much about the Irish language yet feel the need to lecture me about why the factual definitions of Irish terms that I have supplied here need to be changed! It makes no sense. If you really did respect me you would investigate what I write and then either disprove my writings with better scholarship (and atleast a few correct facts??) or be big enough to accept that your beliefs are mistaken and need to be changed. Irish fighting sticks weren't called "batas", but in any event, the "countless" pictures you've seen were no doubt those of people dancing. It doesn't matter anyway because as your teacher has taken great pains to explain, he doesn't hold his stick in the middle, but in a "choked up" 1/3 grip...so far choked up that it's a half inch from...the middle!! : ) No doubt "logic" like this will contine to fill the pages of wikipedia and continue to discourage initially interested parties from wanting to learn more about Irish stick-fighting. So congratulate yourself and your instructor, as you're doing a great job of undoing years of hard work by convincing people that all of Irish stick-fighting is "unmitigated bullshit'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnWHurley (talk • contribs) 04:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't my comment...and it was in response to your abusively worded article. (Alleyward (talk) 23:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC))

Hello nameless stalker! Thanks for heaping more abuse on me. Wikipedia will be forever grateful.

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Ok, aparrently this has been bothering me all day so I wrote a new article. I Wikified it, took out personal references and generally made it an actual article. Please discuss pros and cons here rather than blowing it away. I omitted the word-origin bits that John had previously included...though maybe they do belong in this article. My understanding of gaelic is rather miniscule but I am under the impression that arguing about spelling is rather pointless, as moder scholars do not agree on the spelling of many gaelic words. Furthermore, no common Irishman living in the 19th century cared how things were spelled anyway.(Alleyward (talk) 23:46, 11 May 2008 (UTC))

As someone who's actually Irish, and published a dictionary of English to Irish martial arts terms, I would have to say that I disagree and that your assumptions are not based on any historical facts but on the misguided opinions of others. Case in point...a "bhata" is a boat, while a "bata" is a stick, a difference which doesn't seem to bother you yet is a glaring error to any Irish speaker. If you don't respect me I couldn't care less, but for God's sake respect the traditions and the FACTS over egos, innuendos and gossip. Your other beliefs about the language just don't make sense. About me introducing "bataireacht" into modern popular culture, I felt it necessary to state that so that the article - clearly written by me - would show its (my) bias. That and the fact that it's another example of my contributions being used by others who are willing to use my work while reviling me. Funny that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnWHurley (talk • contribs) 04:52, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a scholarly background to properly argue with you, so there is not much point in me trying. I have learned things, so have you, those things don't jive; it happens all the time. I don't want to hurt anyone, I just want to see bataireacht flourish. I am gratefull to people like you who have put forth the time and effort to bring it to the public. You've done great work and your recent contributions to this article are excellent. I feel that the 2 of us have accidentally collaborated very well and have made a good product.

You have, however, felt the need to launch an attack against me...so I'm going to point out some holes in your arguement. Not that my proving you wrong will change your mind...but at least the rest of the world can see you for what you are.

You are very keen to villify people for adding an "h" to the word "bata", yet you practise "Rince an Bhata Uisce Bheatha", which I can only assume is whiskey boat dancing. I caution you that dancing in a boat while drunk is not advisable and could lead to an accident.

You have been adament that traditional stick fighting styles were used to teach swordplay. You attack Ken for having the audacity to hold his stick in one hand. It therefore follows that you believe the Irish were holding their swords with one hand on the handle and the other on the end of the blade. I think perhaps there might be a family in Boston still teaching "bloody paw sword dancing", the patriarch is called "Six Finger Jack"

I know you don't care what I think...I've lurked on enough of your conversations to know that you don't care what anyone thinks. Its very sad really, your contributions will forever be overshadowed by your abusive and absolutist personality. But that's no reason why Wikipedia should have to suffer. (Alleyward (talk) 23:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC))