Talk:Pashto

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How to pronounce the language's name

Could somebody add a bit saying how the name of this language is to be pronounced in English and in Pashto? (preferably with reference to the IPA alphabet).

Pashto is pronounced like ( pa-sh-to)

pa = pa is pronounced like in "past" or "passive" sh = sh is pronounced like in "she" or "sheet" to = to is pronounced like in 'Τau'

Well as 'past' and 'passive' have different vowels for most dialects, and 'tau' can be [tɔː] or [taʊ], this is not helpful. The older spellings with 'Push-' clearly indicate it's [a] as in 'puck, pun', which was often rendered with the letter <u> in older English romanizations precisely because <a> would have been misread as the sound in 'passive'. The variation between '-to' and '-too' also indicates the quality of that vowel. ~Anon, 12 August 2006

response

Pronunciation in Pashto varies considerably between dialects. (See Mackenzie 1987,* especially pages 550-551. Or #Pashto Phonology below, by Imperial78.) In English: /ˈpɑʃtoʊ/. For those who don't read the International Phonetic Alphabet:

PAHSH-toe

"pah" like the first syllable of "Papa"

"sh" as in "fish"

"toe" like the name of the things on the end of your foot

accent on the first syllable

*MacKenzie, D.N. "Pashto". In The World's Major Languages, edited by Bernard Comrie, 1990, Oxford University Press; Chapter 26, pages 547-565.

Thnidu 19:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The accent should be on the final syllable in all dialects. Also, in some dialects to this day the language is called /pox'tu/, while in others it is /paṣ'to/. 82.205.191.230 18:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic script unexplicably included in History section

This Arabic script was on the page under the History heading, without explanation.

غزل سوغاتونه ستا له لوري راوړي راشي توره شپه روښانه ستوري راوړي راشي
په ماښام د مخ څراغ و ماته بل کړي په غرمه د زلفو سیوري راوړي راشي
ملغلرې زور وروته ورپرېږدي اوښکې خپل کور ته کمزوري راوړي راشي
په سرو وینو دې لا نه ده سرپه ماته خال دې غشي تر موږ پوري راوړي راشي
زه ترې وغواړم لعلونه ای "درویشه" دوی زما د غزل توري راوړي راشي

--nertzy 10:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC) It's Pashto Writing

In an article in a book dealing with the World's major Languages on Pashtu I saw mention that Pashtu actually has two oblique cases, one of which is essentially a prepositional case as it only occurs after certain prepositions. It is not mentioned in this article. Could anyone comment on this af:Gebruiker:Jcwf

This is in fact true, but its use varies widely from dialect to dialect. Also, it can be plausibly argued that the case of which you speak is a suffixed postposition in many instances: "la kora (from the house) = *la kor na. In instances where the noun ends on a vowel, the full postposition is used: "la koro na (from the houses)". But also the same morphological marker can also denote a collective noun, like "1 dollar; 2 dollara; tso dollara? (how many dollars?)".

Pushtu/Pashto

If the article is called "Pushtu" then the bold word in the introduction should be spelled the same way, or vise versa. As "Pashto" is the generally-accepted Anglicized version, it should probably be used (and the article should be moved).—Kbolino

I agree. "Pashto" is the most common spelling, followed by "Pushto". Because of this, and the fact that the article already spells it as such (as well as most of the pages which link to it), the best title for this article is probably "Pashto language". — Ливай

18:11, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 08:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pashto Phonology

Southwest (Kandahari) is the most conservative in phonology because it retains a four way distinction with regards to these four phonemes (ts, dz, š., ž.) Pashto is a phonologically rich language with regards to consonants...Kandahari dialect: p, b, t, d, t., d., k, g, q, ?, ts, dz, č, j, f, s, z, š, ž, š., ž., x, ġ, h, l, r, r., m, n, ñ, w, j (Non-IPA)

Northeast merged: ts, dz with s, z ;š., ž. with x and ġ
Southeast merged: š., ž. with š, ž
Northwest merged: ts, dz with s, z; ġ with y

Whatever the Proto-Pashto phonemes were, Southwest must be conservative because it retains all four phonemes with no mergers. Imperial78

Pashto in india

it is written in the article that pashto is being spoken in northern parts of india by pathans.i think this information is not valid. It is mentioned that pashto is spoken in northen indian regions like rampur and pathankot. Both were pathan states before 1947.it is proved that rampur was the last region where pashto was used to be spoken (untill 1860 A.D) but is no spoke nowadays. Pathankot is in eastren punjab and lack not only pathans but any muslim population after 1947 voilences.

This information is true, though I have heard that the Pathan aristocracy of Rampur still preserves an attachment to Pashto literary forms and indeed patronizes them on occasion. Besides this, though, there are some very small communities or even individual families in India, and not only the north of the country, which do speak Pashto, remnants of migrant salesmen and workers who settled in India before, during, or after Partition in 1947. Channa.web 18:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pashto and Pushto — the pronunciation of the name

This topic has appeared all over this list, so I thought I would try to consolidate what we have here and in the article. The most correct spelling of the name is پښتو, which is usually transliterated as paʂto. The first letter of the name is pe, which is always [p]. The vowel after the pe is not written as it is a short vowel. The short <a> seems to be pronounced as [ə]. The second letter is ʂin, and this causes some difficulties because it's classically a retroflex consonant, which it retains in the Qandahar variety. However, in the Quetta variety it has merged with šin to become [ʃ] (just like an English 'sh', and so often written پشتو), in the Paktiya variety it has become [ç] (like the consonant in German 'ich'), and in the Jallalabad variety it has become [x] (as in the German 'ach', and both these northern varieties can write پختو). The ʂin is vowelless, and is followed by te, which is a simple [t] in all varieties. Its vowel is marked by the final letter, waw, which represents [o] or [uː]. Therefore, the classical and Qandahari pronunciation of 'Pashto' is [pəʂto], and the other varieties differ from this only in this only in the pronunciation of the ʂin and the final vowel. I hope this is satisfactory. If anyone who knows more about the subject can add anything, please do. — Gareth Hughes 11:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

پختو

This is a little bit of a misnomer. It certainly represents the sound of Pukhtu but Pushtu and Pukhtu are both spelt in exactly the same way (پشتو). As a guide to how Puktu speakers pronounce the name of their language it is fine but otherwise it implies that Pukhtu and Pushtu are separate written languages. I would either bracket it or remove the word completely. It's use in the Pakistan press would be frowned upon, the preference to record the Pukhtun tribal name of the speaker as a Res ipsa loquitur, without having to bombard the reader with notions of soft or hard Pukhtu. -- EhsanQ (talk) 14:28, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Indic text"

The article contains the warning boilerplate "This page contains Indic text...". The only Indic text on the page is the example in the boilerplate itself. There is Arabic-script text, which also involves rendering issues, but they are not, or not all, the same as those for Indic text. The boilerplate should be deleted or changed to a correct boilerplate. Thnidu 15:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pashto is spoken by more than 75% of Afghans

Most Afghans speak Pashto and Dari...it is very rare to find an Afghan that does not speak Pashto and only speaks Dari. This is the "language" we are dealing with..."not ethnicity" of people. Most of you are confused with this. Every government leader in Afghanistan speaks Dari and Pashto...including those who are NON-Pashtuns. The same goes in Pakistan with ethnic Pashtuns...they speak Urdu and Pashto. Every Pashtun in Pakistan speaks Urdu and Pashto, some speak English as well. Almost every Afghan (regardless of their ethnics) speak both Dari and Pashto. So it's foolish to say that only 30% or so Afghans speak Pashto....because that is incorrect. In case like this...that over 70% Afghans speak both languages....it should be concluded that over 70% people in Afghanistan speak Pashto...because they do and you can't hide the fact. Afghanistan's President speaks several languages including Dari and Pashto...so what catagory would he be counted in? Dari or Pashto? User:NisarKand November 5, 2006

i also believe that it is a common mistake to say that everybody in the country say that they only know dari but in reality they know light to moderate Pashto too and at least the general non pashto speaking population understands 30% of Pashto. Pashtun786 (talk) 01:54, 26 January 2008 (UTC)Pashtun786[reply]

I agree.

Some folks seem to be making up figures rather than stating facts. Dari is the lingua franca of Afghanistan, spoken and understood by the majority of the people, which includes both native speakers (Tajiks, Hazara, and Persianized Pashtuns) as well as second-language speakers (Uzbeks, Pashtuns, Turkmen, and others). While it is true that many educated Pashtuns have learned to speak Dari, very few native speakers of Dari know Pashto or make any effort to learn it. There are many reasons for this imbalance. For one, Pashto is of little use outside of traditionally Pashtun areas. Dari, on the other hand, has been the language of commerce and government for centuries. Second, Pashto has a richer phonology and grammar than Dari, so it is more difficult to learn as a second/foreign language.

Dari and Pashto are not mutually intelligible. They are two different languages. To claim that the non-Pashto speaking population understands 30% of Pashto is misleading, to say the least. (Where does this number come from anyway?) I'm a native Dari speaker and I can't speak or understand Pashto at all. Sure, there are some common words here and there (just like English, Spanish and French share some vocabulary) but that doesn't mean I can understand any Pashto sentences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.74.218.59 (talk) 02:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

India?

Saying "This article is within the scope of WikiProject India" implies that the Pashto language is chiefly a matter of Indian relevance. It is spoken primarily in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I think it is misleading to have that text box with the Indian flag at the top of the page. Thnidu 19:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The comparative vocabulary table

I wanted to edit the table of comparative Iranian language family vocabulary, but I cannot figure out how to edit that. There are a number of errors in the Pashto column. Besides that, a few of the words represent a very specific and likely minority dialect. Here are some of the corrections which are required, with the original inaccuracy in brackets, leaving aside the dialect issues:

blood: wina [xun] bread: doḍəy or roṭəy [ - ] earth: zməka (land); naṛəy (world) [erz] fear: wera [weda] great: stər [luy (means "large")] small: kuchnai; woṛ [laz/laž (means "a little bit" or "few")] three: dre [dra]

If anyone knows how to edit the table, that would be great.Channa.web 19:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the table and now you can edit there. Whoever originally created the table has made many errors. I fixed some of the Old Persian errors. azalea_pomp

Here is where you edit it, template:Iranian Languages make sure you are sure when you do. azalea_pomp

Convert to IPA?

The Examples section is tagged with convertIPA, but the examples are clearly in a transliteration of the Pashto script, and not in any kind of "nonstandard phonetic notation". You might as well call the Pashto script itself a "nonstandard phonetic notation", if you're going to give that name to a transliteration system. I suggest this tag be removed. Paul.w.bennett 22:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

I would really like to learn Pashto but I could not find anyonw who talk thi language in the net. I live in Israel and there are no people here know this language. Can someone help me?

Thank you.

Hi I can teach you pashto, but you got to figure out how is it possible, I am a Pashtoon from Afghanistan, contact me at tariq4r3@yahoo.com pr tariq4r@hotmail.com

I live in gujranwala pakistan where there are handful of pashto speaking people from the north west frontier pakistan as well as migrants from afghanistan. From my experience pasto will be a difficult language for you to learn on internet.

Pashto

In Afghanistan I think Pashto is spoken more then 30% come ON it should be 7o% or 65% or more or it should 75% of Afghans spek both languages .

'''4:32 p.m eastern 14 March,2007'''

Edits

Please do not make edits without sources and do not remove tables, etc. Azalea_pomp —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Azalea pomp (talk • contribs) 01:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Taliban: language help

There's a dispute on the Taliban page about whether the word Taliban is Pashto, or "Arabic & Farsi". If anyone could give me Taliban, in the original, to be included in the page that would be a world of help. Or indeed if anyone could just have a look and see if what is written there stands correct? Cheers. Marshall 02:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand correctly, Template:Semxlit is Arabic for "the one who learns" and -an is Pashto plural ending. Purely Arabic plural is Template:Semxlit. Aminullah 08:10, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's exactly what I understood. The article ought to have it in the Pashto script then. Can anyone help with that? Marshall 14:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Taliban is a arabic word that means student in arabic there is no meaning of taliban in pashto: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.108.103.181 (talk) 00:26, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Afghan Scouting

Can someone render Tayar Osay (Be Prepared), the Scout Motto, into Pashto script? Thanks! Chris 02:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC) Pashtons are the lords of afghanistan. pashtons are the only people who can be role afghanistan. Afghans and pashtons are brothers and they are being separted by British. Like Kurdis being separated in the whole world. Pashtons were the people who debet english.[reply]

I should Know.

I'm a Native Pashto Speaker, and I know how to use it. Pashto is also known as "Afghan" In the State to some people. In my time in india, I noticed lots of people using the language from afghanistan. I don't agree with the way the origins of the language are said in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.27.68.247 (talk) 16:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indo-Aryan??

Most of the linguists believe Pashto belongs to Eastern Iranian , which is Indo-Iranian language Family. Indo-Aryan is a sub-Family of Indo-Iranaian. So how could Pashto be Indo-Aryan language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.160.84.21 (talk) 05:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, seems someone is making incorrect or biased changes. I reverted the changes, added infobox as well, got rid off classification section (as its mentions already in the green box) and general clean up. Asdf169 (talk) 15:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pashto is truly an Indo-Aryan language

Pashto is an Indo-Aryan language. No doubt in it.

If anyone here wants to have a debate with me on the classification of Pashto, I will be happy to debate. I can be contacted at Zabeehkhan@gmail.com

This is not a question of debate. All academic sources place Pashto FIRMLY within the Iranian sub-branch. It is related to the Indo-Aryan languages (as are all Iranian languages) within the larger Indo-Iranian group, but it is not one of them. All of the mainstream sources refer to Pashto as Eastern Iranian: Encyclopedia Britannica, Afghan Network, Ethnologue (not a site I particularly like as it is an evangelical site), Languages of the World, Omniglot, Pakhtun.com, and UCLA Language Materials Project. Encyclopedia Iranica, written by academics from universities in New York, also places it as the most important Eastern Iranian language:

The Afghans or Paṧtūn are characterized by: (1) Their language, Paṧtō, the most important Iranian language of the east, with a remarkably rich literature.Encyclopedia Iranica entry "Afgan"

Whatever information you have is original research, but IF you can convince the academic world of their error, then that's great and we can change the classification. Until then, this not the place for a debate. Tombseye (talk) 00:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]