Talk:Binayak Sen

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POV

This article is highly biased towards one side and demonises the other. Someone should try and restore the balance in the articles. Just a passing thought, why these champions of human rights never raise their voice against the killings by the terrorists (Indian Law recognises Naxalites as a party)? Food for thought, may be. Please do not remove the tag before balance is restored. Shovon (talk) 18:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

comment on POV: This appears to be a factual entry about Dr. Binayak Sen. Please provide any relevant facts about Dr. Binayak Sen which are missing from the entry. Otherwise please remove the POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.6.186 (talk) 07:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

comment on POV: One _expects_ terrorists to create terror. But one does not expect the State to create terror. This is why human rights activists are more critical/vocal about abuses by the State. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.211.234.66 (talk) 02:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, removing the POV. I am trying to get reliable information on Dr. Sen's activities which led to his arrest and subsequent denial of bail even by the Supreme Court. Normally, the Supreme Court does not go by the Govt. version, so there might be some serious charges levelled against him with adequate proof. Also, Naxalite movement is a serious threat to a large part of India. The human rights activists, who are crying hoarse over the arrest of Dr. Sen, conviniently keeps quiet when Maoists gun down police personnel or civilians opposed to them. That's why I had put up the POV tag, as this srticle cites references from all these sites only. Shovon (talk) 13:33, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shovon, Please refer to the Wikipedia tutorial on Neutral Point of View. "The remedy is to add to the article — not to subtract from it." Also, Wikipedia guidance: "marking an article as having an NPOV dispute is a temporary measure, and should be followed up by actual contributions to the article". Please add any relevant verifiable facts about Binayak Sen which are missing from the article. Thanks 92.23.50.218 (talk) 15:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I have not subtracted anything from the article. Another user edited the whole article and re-wrote almost all of it. But, as a matter of fact, I must say that very less amount of material is actually available from neutral sources. Please note that when I say, neutral sources, it excludes sites such as Amnesty and PUCL. The main problem is, maintream media in India has not covered this arrest in a major way. Lastly, because the Supreme Court of India denied him bail, so there must be some amount of truth in the charges with adequate proof. Of course, you may differ and this is my assumption only. Shovon (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Shovon and Bharatveer, I share with you the faith you have in the judiciary of India, especially the Supreme Court. However the real point is being missed in these debates. The fact of the matter is that Dr. Binayak Sen was held in detention for months and before even being charged for an offence, let alone be tried. There is clear evidence on part of the authorities to delay trial proceedings as much as possible on every pretext. The real problem here is that the normal methods and interpretations of the Indian Penal Code have been discarded for a perverse logic of victimisation perpetuated by the Chattisgarh Public Security Act. The Act basically treats someone arrested under it guilty until proven innocent, which is the opposite of what is considered fair in a legal regime. Details of the problem with this law, (which do not even mention Binayak Sen, and therefore should assure you of being non partisan) are available in a number of sites, including http://www.cgnet.in/N1/CHRIpsa/document_view. When the law itself violates norms of justice and fairness, in the name of national security, it is only natural that the judiciary, including the supreme court can also fall prey to it. This is a new law enacted in 2005 to fight the Maoist terrorism, which violates all sense of basic individual freedom, civil liberty and human rights. I condemn in the strongest terms possible the Maoist doctrine of indiscriminate violence. I am not and never have been a naxlite/Maoist and have no sympathies with them, or expectations from them. But I am and have always been an Indian. So when I see the Indian state victimising its own citizens through laws which are unfair, bring international criticism and shame to the country, I feel it is my duty to protest. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but kindly in the process do not misrepresent the concern for where India is headed if it can enact flagrantly unfair laws and victimise innocent people as a mere case of petty politicking.

To all contributors above: Please note that Wikipedia is not the place to publish one's personal opinions. Please also remember to sign your message with 4 tildes. Thanks 92.23.50.218 (talk) 23:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely right about the personal opinion bit (and be sure, I don't allow my personal opinions & prejudices to spill over to the main article pages). But isn't it ironical that a person like Noam Chomsky, who in all probabilty does not know anything about the ground realities in India, airs his personal opinion and gets media attention because he is famous and which in turn can be cited and so can be included in Wikipedia. Regarding the "The remedy is to add to the article — not to subtract from it.", there's no point adding the same thing and including the same stuff over and over again.

I also share your concern about the draconian laws like POTA and Chattisgarh Public Security Act, but you know "Desperate times call for desperate measures". Why the Naxalites got a foothold in the first place, can be debated and as a fellow Indian I am pretty sure you also know the reason. But you have to agree that they are a threat to the life, security and the rule of law itself. In order to effectively counter them, you have to pay them back in their own coin. As for the excesses by the Salwa Judum, please refer to the number killed by them as against the number of Salwa Judum activists killed by the Maoists. I believe you will get a clearer picture as to where the affiliations of people like Dr. Sen lie. Thanks. Shovon (talk) 06:27, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shovon. Please refer to Wikipedia guidelines: "Talk pages are not a forum for editors to argue their own different points of view about controversial issues. They are a forum to discuss how the different points of view obtained from secondary sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is neutral and objective (which may mean including conflicting viewpoints). The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material (for an alternative forum for personal opinions, see the Wikibate proposal)."

Please find any such referenced material about Binayak Sen which is currently missing, and add it. If no further relevant referenced material can be found, please remove the POV. Thanks 92.23.50.218 (talk) 01:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up required

This article requires clean up .Currently this page looks more like a publicity page for PUCL.-Bharatveer (talk) 04:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This Article seems thoroughly biased and one sided--Puruvara (talk) 10:21, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have been raising the same concern for quite some time now. One example of such bias is Noam Chomsky's statement. How in the earth, he is able to tell that the charges against Dr. Sen are baseless? May be, we can do away with the courts and judges and install Noam Chomsky in that place. Shovon (talk) 11:18, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to Wikipedia guidelines on improving articles: "The remedy is to add to the article — not to subtract from it." Thanks 92.23.50.218 (talk) 18:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the one of the core principles of maintaining a neutral point of view should not be violated, and anything which does may be revmoved/altered. Wikipedia is not for for personal opinions(with absolutely no value judgement on the good work that Binayak Sen is doing). Prashanthns (talk) 06:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, it appears utterly one sided and reads like a propaganda broadsheet. There is little doubt that naxalite terrorism is a long standing national security threat in India (not to mention an public safety issue), going on 40 years now. The government's case will be presented in teh upcoming trial (the judiciary is hardly dead in India) and in the meanwhile why does this article read as if the case was already decided in Binayak's favor? Jak68 (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of complete "public statement"

Is this required? It should either be removed or suitably shortened.-Bharatveer (talk) 07:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why? 92.9.63.96 (talk) 09:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not -Bharatveer (talk) 12:29, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]