User talk:Gregalton

User:Socppt13

I have blocked. Thanks for the evidence. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 17:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Karmaisking checkuser request not showing up on the list

Hello Gregalton. There is no header Karmaisking showing up currently at WP:RFCU. Your request seems to have got tacked onto the end of DavidYork71. There is also a random item in the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_fractional-reserve_banking which should not be there. I can't fix this myself. Maybe the DavidYork71 item has one header too many, or something. EdJohnston (talk) 16:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The Karmaisking report was missing some header macros. Please check that it looks correct now! EdJohnston (talk) 04:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the revert on DBMS. Shocked, but pleasantly. On FRB, I still disagree. Banks would still be banks if matching was akin to close to full reserve (after all, there's still a talent and skill in picking "winners" and "payers" rather than the dud loser "defaulters"). Yes, "innovation" would be curtailed, but, in my humble view, unfettered FRB "accelerates" innovation to mad levels and unbalances the equation too heavily in favor of speculators rather than Grandma savers. Banking would still be banking. It would be less speculative, less gamble, less spiv, less "Rock 'n' Roll". Post Basel II and post FAS 157 and post-bubble we will see that the balance was tilted too far in favor of the spiv. Which cruelly burnt savers alive on the pyre of "free market" dogma. And Karma (eventually) runs over Dogma every time.

Oh, and don't be paranoid. I've finished on WP. Too busy on other things. No more contributions so no need to block. It would be fun trying to find the other 6 socks though. Good luck.--Lifeissuffering (talk) 13:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, don't give up!

Hey, you still there? I just came back to see what's going on with you and the monetary theory articles. You're insanely diligent in making sure that Wikipedia's information is actually fairly correct. I noticed, though, that you don't edit as much as you used to. I don't either. That's just my personality, though. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 00:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed! Your efforts on the various economics articles have always been much appreciated. Hopefully, you're just taking a Wikibreak – just finished a three-month one myself – and will come back refreshed and re-energized. Best, Satori Son — 17:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoops... I see you've been back already. Don't let the cranks and trolls get to you and keep up the good work! — Satori Son 17:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words from you both. Just been travelling, busy, and maybe just a wee bit burnt out. Don't know if I'd call it a wikibreak, really, maybe a wikinap.--Gregalton (talk) 09:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't want to keep doing this

Delete Money as Debt "rapidly and with salt" (you're piracy background coming through?). Now attacks on monetary reform. Come on, we both know the game. Leave me alone, let me do my little thing on monetary reform, slowly improving the article when I have the time (I've even left the POV tag on to protect innocent women and children). NOTHING on the page is inaccurate. You've just deleted refs. We both know why. "Confidence" is everything in bwanking, ain't it? I know the agenda and I know my place in life (marginal debt slave number 142425635674267) - I've left credit crunch and fractional reserve banking and debt-based monetary system alone in deference to your British ruling class rules. I'm swimming in a very small pool. Let me. - MonetaryCrankster (talk) 04:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Go away, blocked user. You continue to evade a block and then look for sympathy.--Gregalton (talk) 13:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Invitation (moved)

You are invited to look at my user page, where I am making an attempt to start a new article on Money and the Money Supply. Your advice and suggestions are invited Martycarbone (talk) 16:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Crass attacks on DBMS talk page

Keep an eye out. It's not me (I'd never be so crass in my attacks on you. I like you. You complete me). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.228.166.192 (talk) 08:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Inflation

I am concerned by what is going on on the inflation article and I would value your advice. As you may have seen, my attempts to assist in the discussion on the talk page failed dismally and I don't want to get bogged down in arguing with non-constructive editors, so I am giving up on that. On the other hand I am concerned that there may be a decline in the quality of the article resulting from attempts to give the Austrian School parity of coverage with mainstream views. I am not an economist and I don't know much about this Austrian School of economics but I do know that it is not a term I have ever heard used before. Where does it fit in? It is a serious economic school taken seriously by other economists, or is it a fringe group? Do you think that it is relevant to the article and is it being represented accurately?

It seems to me that the "Austrians" are only interested in monetary inflation, which is a completely different thing, and that the pro-"Austrian" editors are not even editing the right article. Leaving aside the agenda of those seeking to promote "Austrianism", monetary inflation is an important and relevant idea and I am disturbed that they removed the link to it. I am going to put that back but leave the rest of the edits.

One idea I have had is that maybe the inflation article could become a disambiguation article linking to articles on Price Inflation (i.e. the current Inflation article) and Monetary Inflation. Does that make sense? It would help to make it clear that there are two different economic concepts called "inflation" rather than one concept with a disputed definition. Having an article explicitly named Price Inflation might also discourage people from getting confused and writing about Monetary Inflation in the wrong article. Does that seem like a sensible approach? --DanielRigal (talk) 13:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

What I find so disturbing is that in an on-line, open source encyclopedia, so many "editors" want to censor stuff that legitimately reflects a "fringe" view but which is not mainstream. Why not leave the Austrian stuff in there? Particularly if you have no background or interest in the Austrian School? This is nothing but crass, base censorship. Lenin would be proud.--BuddhaLives (talk) 03:42, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow. I've just checked out the recent "fight" over inflation on the talk page. Gregalton, you must really hate Austrians. Just remember, von Mises actually came from what is now the Ukraine (I believe), so you must hate them too?--BuddhaLives (talk) 03:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Yet another sockpuppet, I presume.--Gregalton (talk) 05:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Yup. But other Austrians are appearing on the horizon just as I am going down, shot to pieces.--BuddhaLives (talk) 05:25, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

The sad irony of this is that lots of people (or at least lots of user accounts) trolling "Austrianism" by illegitimate means, and getting into fights, only creates an environment where all mention of the Austrian School becomes suspect. This makes it very hard for anybody to write about it in good faith and have their good faith recognised. The end result is that there will probably be less and poorer coverage of the Austrian School on Wikipedia than if the trolls backed off and let good faith editors write about it in peace. --DanielRigal (talk) 10:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I have to say that my esteem of the Austrians and Libertarians has fallen considerably, which is probably unfair to those that are not on-line and behaving atrociously on wikipedia, but there it is.--Gregalton (talk) 11:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

What I find appalling is the incredible lack of knowledge the both of you (Greg and Daniel) have presented in this matter regarding the Austrian School. Every bit of Austrian text has been sourced with external links, to a much higher degree than any of the main stream texts. The Austrian School is the oldest continual school of economic thought (founded in the 1870s, many decades before anyone had even heard of Keynes) and the only school alive today that recognizes the existance of fundamental economic laws. Additionally, it is the only school of thought that understands and maintains that economics is a social science, making the use of natural science methodology favoured by mainstreamers unsuitable for dealing with economic theory.

Another thing that bothers me is that you sit here and cry amongst yourselves and belittle those who have added the Austrian view to the article, despite the fact that they far outmatch the both of you when it comes to economic scholarship. Am I to assume you find it regrettable when a debate between two people of different views heat up a little, but it is perfectly okay, even admirable, that in the sanctity of your own home, so to speak, speak ill of those who time and time again have challenged you to a debate?

Furthermore, I would really like to know on what grounds you hold yourselves to be more mature debators than me, especially considering your conduct on this talk page and your attempts to play the martyr on the inflation article talk page.

If you have queries and/or criticism of the Austrian School, you are both welcome to present them on my own talk page. I will do my best to answer all your questions. And again, as has been shown in the "Original definiton" paragraph, there can be no doubt as to the origin of the word inflation and what is. The modern definition used by mainstreamers have no theoretical basis whatsoever, but is nothing more than a consequense of the "scientification" of the field of economics. Misessus (talk) 12:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

P.S

I strongly recomend that you read Michael F. Bryan's "On the Origin and Evolution of the Word "Inflation"", footnote number 5.

D.S

What I find appalling is the sheer arrogance of someone going around spouting some obscure wp:truth.

As for the rest of your gibberish above ("martyrs", speaking ill, etc), I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to be the one that believes you are being persecuted.--Gregalton (talk) 05:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

There are such things as things as economic laws, but I doubt you've ever heard of such a thing. As for the other stuff, scroll up your own talk page and read with your own eyes what you yourself have written.

I don't think I'm persecuted, I just know how much mainstreamers and socialists like to sit together in little groups hating people who don't agree with them. The internet is full of forums for that explicit purpose. Looks like you got your own right here.

Misessus (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I really don't know what you're on about, nor why you've decided to begin attacking me.--Gregalton (talk) 14:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not attacking anyone, my dear friend. It started with you flat out deleting my contributions to the article. That's an attack, if anything. When I didn't give up, you started fabricating reasons for deleting my contributions. Now I see you're back to flat out deleting it again. There wouldn't be any problem at all, if you'd just keep to the mainstream text and let me take care of the Austrian text. But for some reason, you simply can't do that, can you? You never could. Tell me, why is that?

As for what I'm about, I'm about letting people know the original meaning of the word inflation, in plain and simple language, instead of hiding this new definition in mathematical models and mishmash of mystery. What are you about?

Misessus (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

We apparently have different understandings of what may constitute a personal attack. I don't consider editing to be an attack, but I do consider comments like the one above ("is the incredible lack of knowledge the both of you (Greg and Daniel)" to be rude, and I think accusing someone else of being motivated only by hatred ... ("mainstreamers and socialists like to sit together in little groups hating people who don't agree with them" - ah, good thing you got the Socialist jibe in there)... is pretty clear evidence of an attack.

I did not ask what you are about: that is clear, you wish to reestablish the truth about inflation, beginning with the definition. (Which kind of reminds me of Solow's comment on Friedman and the money supply...)

I continue to edit the text you are inserting down because I believe it is wp:undue attention to a marginal, semantical point. It would make sense to have that text in articles on Austrian economics and would encourage you to insert there.--Gregalton (talk) 16:33, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we apparently have very different views on many things. I guess that is rather understandable.

Oh I don’t hate you, quite the reverse. I love debating economic theory, and you have, at times, been a very interesting adversary. I actually kind of like you. However, the truth can never be construed as an attack. Surely you cannot deny that both you and Daniel lack even the most basic knowledge of the Austrian School? I don’t blame you for that, not everyone needds to know all there is about Austrianism. What I do object to is using your own ignorance of the Austrian School as a reason for cencoring it from Wikipedia.

Keyneisians tend to be socialists and act in the very same way. And do you actually consider it to be a personal attack to call someone a socialist, because I sure don’t and I’m pretty sure there are several hundred million people in the world who are quite proud of being socialists. Again, you really are looking with lanterns and torches to find something that simply isn’t there.

Yes, I want to reestablish the truth about the inflation, and the best way to get started on that is to bring people’s attention to the original definition of the word. You know, what the word meant before the mainstreamers arbitrarily redefined it along with a multitude of other terms and concepts. Please tell me, what is so horrible about that?

You can keep referring to all the WP-rules you want. I will be here to make sure that you won’t supress the Austrian School from the Inflation-article. I am perfectly within my rights and the WP-rules. I haven’t even touched the mainstream text, I haven’t even hinted that the Austrian School is superior. I have done nothing more than to add a few paragraphs of text to a seriously lacking and flawed article. You should be grateful for that, but clearly, you are anything but.

Misessus (talk) 17:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Misessus, you speak simple clear truths. From one Austrian to another - thank you for being there. Sometimes I feel so alone. Gregalton will never get the OBVIOUS point that deleting stuff from an article for no reason IS A PERSONAL ATTACK. It is arrogant. It is rude. It is unreasoned. It is bullying. It is a power game. It is stupid, if it is done without good cause. This is base censorship of the Austrian School, nothing more, nothing less. It's like he wants to have a heel against your neck, deleting stuff you've carefully written and then when you scream that you can't breathe he calls that a personal attack and doesn't understand how you can be so "rude"? Don't you LIKE the heel on your neck? Don't you understand the heel DESERVES to be on your neck to stop "fringe" stuff "contaminating" the page? Why don't you understand Gregalton's perspective? He's just trying to ensure the truth (HIS TRUTH) remains on the page. Fascists never think they're fascists. They just think they're RIGHT. There is no "reason". There is only POWER. - TruthComesFromAGunBoat (talk) 01:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh...and a point for Gregalton. I'm in a very very difficult position on the issue of multiple accounts. I can see how disruptive, annoying, downright rude and egotistical Nicolaas has become (MainsreamEconomist, Zenwhat..whoever). He annoys me... and I feel he's taken up my strategy of multiple accounts to evade sockpuppet bans. I would gladly shoot him, if it was legal. I know you may think I have been similarly disruptive and deserve a similar fate. I make two points in defence: (1) I contend that ALL my edits have been confined to clarifying the Austrian School and other "fringe" positions. I have NEVER been "disruptive" on a page I knew little about (such as neo-Keynesianism). (2) I only reacted after being repeatedly personally attacked and removed from the forum for no good reason, and have continued simply to defend unjustified attacks on the Austrian School. My scope of operation is extremely narrow (you say obsessive) but at least you know where I'm coming from.

Nicolaas/Zenwhat on the other hand is/are playing a different game. He/They attack OTHER Schools (particularly Austrianism) wanting this stuff deleted. That is censorship, NOT scholarship. As a Libertarian that is what I hate. That is what I will not stand for. If they back off from the Austrian School and stop deleting stuff I will leave WP. If they keep attacking I will use every tactic to ensure it is not deleted and is reflected accurately. It is not necessarily "better" than any other school of economic thought (although I happen to think it is). But it does deserve to live. If these "editors" keep killing it, I will keep coming back. I am that "obsessive". So tell them to back off. - TruthComesFromAGunBoat (talk) 01:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)