Talk:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Miyamoto and credits

Mind telling me why you're putting Miyamoto AFTER the directors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.242.194 (talk) 22:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, there's several things wrong in here. First of all, NINTENDO decides who the director is? Not really. Miyamoto, being in the position that he is (or even was back then) would have the ability to choose to credit himself as director if need be. The reason that he didn't do that for OoT was most likely because he didn't direct the entire game like he did with Mario 64, so he probably felt it wouldn't be fair to the other guys. Second of all, did you even read that article I posted? It does not state that Miyamoto just 'gave some direction'. He took control of the reins and saw to it through the end. Third of all, why do I think that he had more to do with directorial work that just a mere producer? Well, read the following:

http://www.miyamotoshrine.com/theman/interviews/102701.shtml

"F: Excuse me (laughs). Was this the first time that you joined the development of a title since Ocarina of Time?

M: That's right. I was the director of Mario 64, and half producer, half director on Zelda. As for Pikmin, I'd say half producer, half director. "

http://www.gamecubicle.com/interview-legend_of_zelda_wind_waker_miyamoto.htm

"This time around, [b]I'm not actually the director of the game. I'm the producer.[/b] Mr. Eiji Aonuma sitting here to my right is the director. It's actually been nice to be able to work as the producer on this game. I've been working with Mr. Aonuma since the Ocarina of Time. [b]On Majora's Mask he was pretty much independent in moving that project along. So it's been very easy for me as producer on this game.[/b]"

http://archive.gamespy.com/interviews/july03/aonuma/index2.shtml

"GameSpy: Was Majora's Mask the first game for which you served as director?

Aonuma: I directed the development of enemies and dungeons for Ocarina of Time. But for overall direction, Majora was my first. "

Now, it MAY just be me, but that last comment by Aonuma makes it sound like *gasp* he wasn't the overall director for Ocarina! I know I'm reaching here, what with the lack of any corroborating info and all that, aside from the testimony of Miyamoto and heck, even the alleged director Eiji Aonuma himself, but I think we can safely say that Miyamoto had more of a directorial role than you're giving him credit for.

And FINALLY, the last thing I would like to add is that, if you're going to not give Miyamoto any directorial credit at all, at least put his name in the right order for God's sake. His name comes up first, then the sub directors. Not to mention you have several credits for the other directors wrong as well. Yoshiaki Koizumi was the 3D System Director, not Yoichi Yamada, who was also Game System Director. Also, Toru Osawa is the first director to be credited, then Aonuma, et al.

Now, if you don't mind, quit messing with the page please. Have a nice day. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.154.146.2 (talk) 22:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok he was half director.there is a sourse for this.Do not touch this item anymore.--133.2.9.161 (talk) 03:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Shigeru Miyamoto

This source[1]does not mean he was the director.Producer is a higher position than director so producers sometimes give direction.If he had been the director,nintendo would have announced he was the director.He was the Producer and Supervisor.This is officially announced.--43.244.132.168 (talk) 07:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

NINTENDO does not admit miyamoto was the director.It is not Aonuma but NINTENDO that decides who is the director.And even Aonuma does not state shigeru was the director of oot.he just state shigeru gave some direction,The fact shigeru gave some direction does not mean he was the director.oot has several directors,and why on earth do you say shigeru was the lead director even though NINTENDO announced he was the producer and supervisor?That shigeru was the director of oot is your speculation, which isn't suitable for Wikipedia.--Handsome elite (talk) 06:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank You

I just want to thank everyone who made Ocarina Of Time a featured article and I only wish I could have contributed more. What I can do is keep the page like this. But again, thank you. Gregory E. Miller (talk) 22:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC))

Good job! When it disappeared from the FAC, I was scared for a moment that it was demoted. So I immediately came to this article and saw the pretty little star. Good job, you guys! I know I wasn’t an active editor on this article, but I liked the game a lot and am very proud of the editors who managed to make this an FA. (Especially since Majora’s Mask is already one… --haha169 (talk) 23:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

If you can help keep peacock terms and unsourced information out of the article, that will be thanks enough. This article is particularly bad for attracting them. Pagrashtak 03:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Back on top

OoT is back on top of gamerankings. May want to wait a couple days to make sure it sticks but it will so may want to mention it again on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.153.141 (talk) 14:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's what you can do: If Gamerankings has changed their rating of Ocarina of Time, then you can change the number currently in the article. Just make sure it's sourced. (like it should already be) Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:32, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Back on top again! (as of30th May)

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y Autonova (talk) 16:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Ummm

{{helpme}} Why is the article protected? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 10:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Because of a recent edit war, see the edit history of the article and the relevant policy. This is also explained at the template which is at the top of the page. Cenarium (talk) 15:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editprotected}} I'm trying to edit the page by giving Shigeru Miyamoto the proper credits and by listing him first as he appears in the video game credits. I am not sure why whoever keeps unediting it doesn't want that to happen since that is supposed to be how it was shown in the video game. There should be no controversy. Here's the youtube link and see for yourself. http://youtube.com/watch?v=0t272ikEwWc&feature=related —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.233.48.100 (talk • contribs) 01:11, 31 May 2008

Not done for now: The reason why you can't edit the page is because it's fully protected due to an edit war. Can you be more specific about what change you want made to the article? It's currently not very clear what it is you think should be changed. Happy‑melon 15:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

seriously, who the hell cares? The names are all listed, so why does the ordering matter so much? The administrators don't have time for trivial crap like this. Wikipedian06 (talk) 20:24, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Press this button to drain your stress and stay cool--Twicemost (talk) 03:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit request for revision of GameRankings

Below is what should be updated in the article:

Game Rankings, a review collection site owned by CNET Networks, ranks Ocarina of Time in first place on the greatest games ever made list. Metacritic, also owned by CNET Networks, ranks Ocarina as the highested-rated game with a critic metascore of 99 out of 100.

If it's worded poorly, then edit at your judgment.

If an admin could just reword those in the article that'd be great. --HeaveTheClay (talk) 21:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, look. Someone beat me to it. You'll find more reasons for removing below, I suppose. I didn't notice that I just placed an {{editprotected}} request that was already requested... --haha169 (talk) 23:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and removed the template because it is now unprotected again. Gary King (talk) 06:31, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Why did you guys delete it from the first paragraph? On GTAIV's page they have it, so you have no ******* excuse to take it out. Jerkoffs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.247.178 (talk) 21:36, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Aonuma is not the director via OoT's ending credits

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EP7zULA63Ek&feature=related OoT's ending.

He's not mentioned under directors. If he's not listed under credits he should not be mentioned at all. Miyamoto should be listed as Supervisor/Producer. I've read it the interviews.

Does Wikipedia take into consideration the direct source, in this case, the game or a GameSpy interview? --HeaveTheClay (talk) 21:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Eiji Onozuka is the same person as Eiji Aonuma.--43.244.132.168 (talk) 06:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit Protected

The last paragraph in the lead concerning Game Rankings should be removed, because it:

1. Uses poor ref formatting
2. Poor ref locations
3. Especially Outdated information --haha169 (talk) 23:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and removed the template because it is now unprotected again. Gary King (talk) 06:31, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

What are the poor ref locations? It's only one site, GameRankings. It's on the top ten and that achievement, for years, is something that warrants mention. Whether you like it or not. --HeaveTheClay (talk) 14:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Ref locations are as follows: must follow directly after the text with no spaces in between. And if they are after a comma, there is also no space between, but rather a space after the ref tag. Please assume good faith and don't accuse me of disliking what you did. I also must ask you to check out ref templates: <ref>{{citeweb|url=|title=|publisher=|author=|accessdate=|date=}}</ref>. Please do that instead of bare references, it saves a lot of time fixing it. --haha169 (talk) 05:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Allgame review

Why do you keep reverting this? It's cited and relevent. Plese stop removing it without reason! Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Non-notable website. Wikipedian06 (talk) 02:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Then why is it in the in the template? What declares it a notable site? Allmusic and allmovie relate to their articles, allgame is just as notable. Give more information99.246.1.192 (talk) 03:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo Power review NOV 98_VOL_114

For those who wanted to see it:

The wait is over. Zelda has arrived!

Graphics (20%): The cinematic scenes and atmosphere in Zelda will set a new standard for video game adventures. The animations convey emotions as well as a sense of reality. Some of the areas are almost photorealistic, while others are more fantasy-based, but all areas are filled with rich, graphic detail.

Play Control (20%): Analog movement and control response is excellent, so link's moves and use of weapons and tools is first rate. Every controller button has a function, though, and that could be the most trying part of Zelda.

Game Design (25%): Miyamoto doesn't disappoint. Ocarina of Time includes all the best elements of previous Zelda games, such as multiroom dungeons, colorful characters, clever puzzles, frightening monsters, and an heroic theme. New elements include 3-D battles, horseback riding, the realistic passage of time, and cinematic scenes with dramatic camera angles.

Satisfaction (25%): You've gotta love this game.

Sound (10%): The music and sound effects help add to the emotional impact of the game.

Comments: Scott-Variety and exploration on an unprecedented scale. Andy-Say goodbye to your friends and family before you start to play. Paul-Deep. Mysterious. Thought-provoking. All games should be like this.

Graphics=9.3/10 Play Control=8.8/10 Game Design=9.9/10 Satisfaction=9.9/10 Sound=9.2/10 OVERALL RATING 9.5/10

Individual staff scores: Armond-8.0 Jason-10.0 E-9.0 Ed-9.8 Scott(SP)-9.5

It's short, unspecific, and littered with grammatical errors, so I don't think there's much we can quote from it. But at least this satisfies the curiosity of those who wondered what the NP review said. Wikipedian06 (talk) 02:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

• Isn't this some kind of copyright violation? --Ryajinor (talk) 22:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Master Quest

I know that this information used to exist in one of the articles and I can even get sources for this. Master Quest certainly isn't the full version of what Ura-Zelda was supposed to be. This can be verified by interviews with Miyamoto who implicitly states that the expansion would include new content beyond rearranged dungeons, such as brand new dungeons, enemies and items. Not to mention the fact that the Ura Zelda patch was bigger than OoT itself (while MQ is the same size as OoT, and it's highly unlikely that rearranged dungeons would take up over 32mb). Miyamoto also mentioned that there was also going to be an expanded mask trading quest and that players would be able to create custom masks using the Gameboy camera and Mario Artist. This certainly isn't in MQ. I'm not saying we need to go into great detail, but a few sentences about this would be ideal. --.:Alex:. 11:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you know where these interviews are? Pagrashtak 14:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

On IGN. I'll dig 'em out. --.:Alex:. 21:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

So why the heck did you whoever change the credits back to what it was?

Why is Shigeru Miyamoto listed all the way under the directors? If you're going to not give him any credit for directing, then at least put his name first, as it is the order it appeared in the OFFICIAL CREDITS.

Also, why the hell is someone constantly scared if I add more information on the development on Ocarina of Time? I think people who are looking for info would appreciate being as specific as possible. Don't change my edits this time, especially if you think they're trivial.

Because he never did much hands-on work. Since the N64, he's always been the supervisor guy who gets 99% of the credit for everything his individual team members do. Wikipedian06 (talk) 23:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Sir, please don't say things if you have no clue how things work. Is there some strange disease going on with some of you that makes you unable to read the mountain of substantiated evidence that was posted on this page?

Fact: Eiji Aonuma only was responsible for directing dungeons. He was not the main director. Look up on this page where I posted the goddamn interviews. So then that brings us to our next question. If he's not the main director, then who could that be? Yes, that's right. Whether you don't want to believe it or not, whatever the reason, Miyamoto killing your puppy or whatever, he was responsible for a lot more than what you're thinking. Yes, you are correct about Miyamoto not having much hands on work during the N64 days, but that was AFTER he finished Ocarina. Here's some more proof since some of you appear to be really daft.

Q: How much of your job is now hands-on, and how are you involved in current games?

A: It's very hard for me to say now. Three years ago I was director and producer of Super Mario 64. Then I only worked on Mario. Now I'm a producer on almost every game except Zelda 64. On Zelda 64 I'm half director and half producer.

http://ign64.ign.com/articles/060/060925p1.html

Miyamoto is an incredibly modest person, so when he says he directed something, then one should have no friggen reason to doubt him. He's gladly denied not having been involved in other games, so why not this one? Am I going too fast for you? I can type slower if that will help.

And here's something else in case you don't believe Aonuma was the main designer on Ocarina.

Eiji Aonuma has worked at Nintendo since he entered the videogames industry in the late Eighties and become one of its most important employees. He was assistant Director of Ocarina Of Time and has been in charge of every Zelda game from Majora's Mask right up to Phantom Hourglass.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=2633

Now I'm going to go back and edit the page, so please do not change it to something inaccurate, thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.48.166 (talk) 06:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

That miyamoto was the main director is just your speculation, which is not suitable for wikipedia.The interviews do not say miyamoto was the main director.Ocarina of time has several directors, and does not have a main director.The man who designs the game system should be on the Designer section of an article.Miyamoto did not design the game system, he just supervised the game.Actually, the interview that says he was half director and half producer means he was half supervisor and half Producer.Directing is being involved in designing a game directly, supervising is being involved in designing a game indirectly.Official credit shows miyamoto was producer and supervisor.--43.244.132.168 (talk) 15:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Good grief. Why are you making a mountain out of a molehill out of this? If Miyamoto was simply a supervisor, then why does every interview on the planet dealing with Eiji Aonuma mention he was main director starting from Majora's Mask? As for you saying he didn't design or do anything, well...

Q: How much of your original design made it into the game?

Miyamoto: When it comes to the core or main portion, I think more than 30% comes from me or my ideas. When it comes to the main game system, it's 100% -- so my ideas have been fully realized and recognized. When it comes to the scenario about 50% reflect my ideas.

http://ign64.ign.com/articles/060/060234p1.html

Scenario and Planning - both very necessary. The team discussed the position of this title in the whole series, and included myself and several dedicated script writers.

Link's action and 3D improvements of items found previously in the series: This team included myself, Mr. Yoshiaki Koizumi who has worked on player characters since the days of Mario, and the head programmer.

http://ign64.ign.com/articles/067/067394p1.html

He did a lot more work than just merely managing the game. Listen, think about this logically. Miyamoto has been credited with being a producer for dozens of games, so why does he only bother to mention that he's also a director for Ocarina? Because unlike most of the other games he produce, he was actually involved in development. It's not speculation! It's in the interviews and is plain as day. What you are doing with giving Aonuma credit for the whole game would be like giving the cinematographer the whole credit for Jurassic Park instead of Steven Spielberg. Seriously, this is a non-issue. Don't change it ever again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.48.166 (talk) 19:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Dude, venom is starting to fly. Try to calm down and be civil. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry. It's just slightly irritating that I'm being accused of speculating, when I have provided a mountain full of evidence that corroborates what I've been saying. Plus it would seem hypocritical to give Aonuma the credit of a designer even though he was listed as game system director. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.48.166 (talk) 07:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Peach's Cameo

Why is it not stated in the article that Princess Peach is viewable on a portrait in Hyrule Castle? It's credible trivia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.202.127 (talk) 23:17, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

If memory serves, Mario's picure is right next to Peach's. Its factualness is not in debate. The problem is the fact that it's trivia, thus trivial. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 07:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Since when is Eiji Aonuma a dungeon designer?

Hi guys. How yall doing? :)

I don't get why Aonuma is listed as a dungeon designer. He's a game system director I thought? On the credits it says "Game system director" not "Game system director and dungeon design". Why are you people polluting this site with lies? :( :( Wikipedia has no use for speculation, right?!??!?!! :)

Oh and same with the other credits. Yoshiaki Koizumi is the 3D system director I was thinking. He didn't have anything to do with event planning, speculation aside. Have a nice day! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.164.177 (talk) 03:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Aonuma didn't design the dungeons. He's a game system director. And Koizumi was not responsible for Event planning. I don't know where this information was gotten from. I'm gonna go edit that extraneous stuff out. Hopefully there will be no issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.164.31 (talk) 07:33, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm sick of this infobox. I have half a mind to just blank the Designer field completely, since it seems to get edited more than the rest of the article combined. Anyways, before Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 speech, Bill Trinen introduced him as Ocarina's dungeon designer.[2] Pagrashtak 17:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

That's all well and good, Bill might have mentioned that. But is there any actual proof, though? I mean, do we know for a fact that it might not have been a mistranslation or something? Sounds a lot like speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.53.225 (talk) 18:16, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

What do you want, a video of Aonuma at work? Bill Trinen specifically said that Aonuma designed the Water Temple. If that's a mistranslation, it's a pretty specific one. And no, I don't have any proof that Bill Trinen is not lying. Fortunately for us, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is not truth, but verifiability. Aonuma being a dungeon designer—is it true? Who knows. Is it verifiable? Yes. Pagrashtak 19:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm just saying. I mean, yeah sure under NORMAL circumstances, one would think that if you have an interview documented by a well established site, such as IGN and whatnot, that would be enough to verify something. But as you can see from many of the quarrels above, that the 8 thousand interviews (including stuff straight from the so called true visionary of OoT, Eiji Aonuma himself) posted corroborating Shigeru Miyamoto's role as something significantly more than a mere PR monkey haven't been enough to convince this page's webmaster(s), then I think one could assume that the logical conclusion is that mere interviews, no matter how many there are, no matter from who it's conducted with, isn't good enough to base facts on. Do you not agree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.53.225 (talk) 19:45, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The interviews seem fine with me. Personally, I don't care about this field that much and would be just as happy if it was blank—I'm not part of the infobox edit war. I'm just tired of this article constantly popping up on my watchlist every time the infobox gets reverted. Pagrashtak 17:20, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Amen! Preach it Brotha! You think it's bad enough that it should go on WP:LAME? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Pagrash, I'm sorry if this issue keeps popping up on your watch list. I know it can be annoying, but alas, I will continue to edit this page with the accurate information, until whoever keeps changing it stops. I'm not doing this to be a jerk, or because I don't have anything better to do. If you don't have information that contains the truth and just decide to put in whatever, then Wikipedia is not achieving it's goal. It's also very annoying that the same person who keeps changing it, also seems to delete the interviews that I post in the development section too. Yet for some odd reason he/she decides to have some random comment by Makoto Miyanaga, which doesn't say anything insightful about the development at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.53.225 (talk) 23:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

There, I even added the interview (again). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.53.225 (talk) 23:28, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, since this is one of my FAs, I feel the need to check edits when I'm active. Larry's right that this is quite a lame edit war. 76, I'd like to make you aware of WP:3RR if you're not already. Since this is a content dispute and not vandalism, you (or anyone else) can be blocked for excessive reverting—whether you are reverting to a correct version or not. I'd also like to invite you and 208 to create accounts. You can read Wikipedia:Why create an account? for some of the benefits of having an account. For starters, I find that it makes talk page conversations like this easier. Even if you don't want to create account, please sign your posts (on talk pages, not in articles) by adding ~~~~ to the end of your post. Thanks, Pagrashtak 01:07, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

First of all, you do not understand what is producer. Producer is PR monkey? DO NOT INSULT SHIGERU MIYAMOTO. Most of the credits of the games he took part in are producer, producer is the highest position in game development. PR is a very important thing for games, other than that, the most important role of producer is commanding director. In an interview he said he was half producer and half director. The roles of director and supervisor are similar. The role of supervisor is commanding game staff(not only director) in an indirect way, and no game designers are credited as director and supervisor because one man can never be director and supervisor at the same time, and if he had been the director, the credit would have been so, but the credit shows he was producer and supervisor. Miyamoto was the producer of many games, so he had a few time and was not able to do hands-on work enough. Anyway, official credit is the most reliable source and do not insult his job as producer and supervisor. The credit of producer and supervisor is a sign of high status.--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 07:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Pagrash, sounds good. I will sign up for an account later today. Also, I did not know about the 24 hour thing, thanks. As for the person above me, first of all, I wasn't insulting him. I was trying to DEFEND him. I know a producer is a very important role, but as far as how a game creatively turns out, more often than not, much of the glory should go to the director. The roles of supervisor and director are NOT similar, by the way. If that was the case, then the real supervisors (in this case, Takashi Tezuka and Toshigio Nakago(sp?) ) wouldn't be listed so far down the list. The reason I'm making an issue out of this is because most people don't see the producer as the creative force. Yes, in some cases they are (like this one), but people will commonly assume that if a person is a producer, then all they do is handle the money and office work, stuff like that. That's why I want to make the distinction. Aonuma, Koizumi, and all those people have been responsible for parts of the game, but it was Miyamoto's job to be overall responsible for it. Miyamoto was working on Super Mario 64 during the first half of OoT's development, and when that was done, he worked back on OoT. It's not the first time something like this has happened. Eiji Aonuma was originally producer for Twilight Princess, but he came back as a director midway through the project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.53.225 (talk) 18:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The word director should not be used for his credit because it is not official and one man can not be director and supervisor at the same time. I Added lines about his role (someone may remove it), and this issue should be finished.--Eisai Dekisugi (talk) 20:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

But Miyamoto said so himself. Several times. How much more official does it need to be? Also, who says you can't be both a supervisor and a director? People can have more than one role in a project. Also, don't you think his name should be listed first, if you're going by official credits? Cause that's how it's listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megax5000 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Really, now. How can you eliminate Miyamoto from the Designers list? It's been stated god knows how many times above. Miyamoto designed the scenario and much of the game system, and several other things. Why are you people leaving him out, and leaving level designers and artists in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Megax5000 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, what the hell? At first I thought somebody modified the page again because they reverted it to a previous state because of the gamerankings issue (see below), but it's back to the way it was. It was fine for a few days and then somebody borked things again. What is the fricken deal here, people? Stop leaving Miyamoto out!

GameRankings in the lead, Prince.

Your first revert was that not everything needed to be included. When games like include the ranking on GameRanking in the lead: Grand Theft Auto 4, Halo 3, Soul Calibur, and yes even Super Mario Galaxy mentions it's the most critically acclaimed all in the lead. It's a notable achievement to be uncontested for many years.

I also want to address that "Just because another article does it doesn't mean it should be included' counterpoint. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Other_stuff_exists

Specifically, When used correctly though, these comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes. The problem arises when legitimate comparisons are disregarded without thought because "other stuff existing is not a reason to keep/create/etc."

And I can't see any problems with the wording, please address them. If that's your only problem, then why are you removing it entirely? It's a silly reason. --HeaveTheClay (talk) 17:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

You added this information:", excluding ports and re-releases.[1] On Game Rankings, a site which collects and averages game reviews, Ocarina of Time holds the highest average review score of all time. Its Gamecube re-release, which includes the original game and a new "Master Quest" with reworked dungeons, holds an average score of 90% based on 24 reviews, ranked #190 among all games. [2]"

1. The game is one of the most critically acclaimed games ever, and I think only mentioning the major points of its reception is necessary.
2. It's kinda assumed that the game's sales (7.6 million copies) excludes ports and re-releases, and is therefore, IMO, not needed to mention.
3. Including GR is fine and all, but why give a long description on what GR is, when a link to the article explains it so much better. That's what links are for. And why not include MC as well? The site is at least as popular as GR.
4. Video games, movies, CDs etc need to be in italics, which "Ocarina of Time" isn't.
5. Gamecube -> GameCube.
6. "Master Quest" -> Master Quest. Saying that MC has "reworked dungeons" isn't relevant for reception. Also, I believe the original title's reception is sufficient for the lead. A good lead must summarise the article's content adequatly, without superfluous details. And "ranked #190". Is this really an achievement?

In general, I think the lead was fine the way it was, and it was unnecessary to change it in accordance with your own personal preference. But to be honest, I won't be fighting about this anymore. If you're so desperat about the content being there, then so be it. I just think it's a shame that an FA gets littered with such useless information, but I guess there's nothing you can do when you're dealing with one of the most popular games ever created. FYI, I'll take both OoT and Ganon off of my watchlist, as I can't be bothered partaking in any more lame discussions. Thanks. The Prince (talk) 18:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)