Talk:Allan Holdsworth

The vocabulary in this article is, at times, hideous. See the "remark" for the None Too Soon album-"syncopated" time signatures? A time signature merely dictates the number of beats per measure, which does not affect the use of syncopation within the piece. Not to mention that the idea of "remarks" per album seems flawed-who are the remarks from? Is there a running theme throughout the "remarks"? Do the "remarks" serve as background information for each album, or whatever the writer feels like pointing out? I would strongly consider removing the remarks entirely, as they are irrelevant and inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. -ELPsteel

I'm not sure that the introductory paragraph complies with wikipedia's neutral point of view. i've read countless articles on allan, but can't recall comparions to lizst (sources, please?). "lauded for peerless technique", "unique efficiency", that sort of thing. i'm as big a fan of allan as anyone, but i don't really think this introduction describes allan in a fitting way, especially for an encyclopedic entry. Pstornes 23:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that the caption for the image is incorrect. It should in fact read:

"Allan Holdsworth, The Genius and His SynthAxe"

because the picture shows Allan playing his SynthAxe controller.

Why don't you edit it then? --Lambyuk 00:47, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

As a newbie I was a little careful about editing stuff.

Don't worry about it! Welcome to Wikipedia... --Lambyuk 02:23, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

rofl

"Allan Holdsworth ranks with Jeff Beck, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Edward van Halen and John McLaughlin as one of the most sig....."

why don't you guys just go ahead and include all possible guitar players? I'm deleting this 61.12.39.75 04:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

i knd of whonder y there are no pictures of the man on the this page on wiki.

apparently, images without copyright notices will be deleted. Pstornes 23:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC) You guys failed to metion thatAlan Holdsworth is God

Allan Holdsworth and Eric Clapped-out in the same sentence? PLEASE!!!! Neilsworld

Allan Holdsworth is better than all of those guitarists. Tons better. - xtheblademaster —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.173.149.57 (talk) 03:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

"big figure"? lol, c'mon, try leading figure.

"big figure" doesn't seem to do Allan's contributions to the genre much justice. I updated this. Also, I added a "Holdsworth Today" and "Holdsworth's fans" section (the latter is long overdue, I think).

this article is rampant in WP:NPOV vio's. Also, new sections lacked citations (see WP:CITE) and read more like "original research" (see WP:NOR). It's overdue for a cleanup as, for now, it's fancruft and far from encyclopedic. 216.21.150.44 01:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I submit to you that the new sections meet the requirements on the grounds that there are indeed "written or recorded records of field observations" for many of Allan's concerts that back up what I wrote, both in terms of his tour/band info and fan base. It's very difficult to grab a citation when this particular artist gets so little (if any) media coverage (in all media).

Furthermore, Wikipedia states:

"No original research" does not prohibit experts on a specific topic from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia."

[I consider myself an expert on Allan Holdsworth.]

"It does, however, prohibit expert editors from drawing on their personal and direct knowledge if such knowledge is unverifiable."

[My simple entries under "Holdsworth today" and "Holdsworth's fans" are verifiable; editing it out without first challenging the author (me) for verifiability is arrogant and heavy handed.]

"Wikipedia welcomes the contributions of experts, as long as these contributions come from verifiable (i.e. published) sources."

[Allan's tour schedule has been published on his web site, and in records online and elsewhere. His fan base, collectively, can be surmised and characterized from Allan's therealallanholdsworth.com's forum section, where many of them hang out.]

"Thus, if an editor has published the results of his or her research elsewhere, in a reputable publication, then the editor may cite that source while writing in the third person and complying with our NPOV policy."

This clause to me seems biased towards artists that get covered in "reputable publications". While Allan does, from time to time, get some light coverage in a few magazines, it's usually few and far between, and spotty. On top of that, many of the published articles tend to be interviews or discussions, rarely going into much detail outside well established parameters of equipment, current or upcoming release and tour. There have been exceptions, unfortunately, I don't see any content from these evident in this entry for Holdsworth.

Besides, the article is in-line and consitent with the stylistic treatement given many other artist's entries in Wikipedia. This isn't a science (i.e. authoring an article about a musical artist), nobody wrote "he's the best, the rest suck" type thing. So, I'm not sure what other choices there are besides facts written by fans and facts written by critics. This isn't the mating ritual of Alaskan seal or quantum phyiscs; it's art and it's the man behind the art. If you think it's rampant with NPOV vios, why not do the readers a courtesy & state where they are, or better yet, FIX IT. --208.115.202.63 05:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

...a "start class" rating, how helpful...

Now if only they'd actually improve it...

---

== Someone Take An Axe To Some of This Junk

A couple of points. When is someone going to get rid of the daft Liszt quote. Reviewers are some of the most musically ignorant people around. You might as well compare him to Lou Reed and someone hammering in a nail if you're not going to justify your comment and/or support it with evidence. The 'piano-like' and 'clarinet-like' descriptions are also subjective and should be excised forthwith. A 'keyboard-like' reference would be okay, because it's obvious and a comparison worth making. But as for the others, you might as well say 'I hear a Mexican washboard' like the 'I'm getting just a flutter of burnt strawberries' when someone drinks a glass of wine. Aural palette and all that. Further, the 'recommended recording' sentence please get felled like an axe? So we're allowed to raid music articles on Wikipedia saying 'the best album is...' all of a sudden? That whole end paragraph should go. As far as I'm concerned (and I too am 'an Allan Holdsworth expert' if the above person is) all of his work is his best work, period.

Re. the above, why doesn't someone paraphrase more of the encomia of praise on the Against The Clock liner notes? Bruford, eg, cites Allan's solo on UK's In The Dead of Night as just about a perfect example of its type. Now no-one should argue with him, man.

So can someone please get brave and sort this out? I would but I'm just too busy.

88.111.134.188 16:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree...

I wish this self anointed Wiki guitar police force were a little more even handed with all the stuff they decide to stomp out (while letting in the subjective quote about Liszt). Actually, I'm fairly certain I know exactly where that comparison came from and who first muttered it on the AH forum.

I took the time to put other factually based info on this page, which the self-anointed in-charge erased, a lot of it readily verifiable information. Sickening to think a great resource like this Wikipedia so limits an artist (like Allan) from getting a better page because of a few people - none of whom I'm guessing possess the decades of insider info and knowledge on AH that I and dozens of other people from his forum could detail here

...I'm guessing a bunch of 20 somethings with a recently beefed up vocabulary (e.g. NPOV) and a shiny virtual junior Wikipedia G-man badge. What a shame. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chrism07924 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Zappa McLaughlin

I've heard it said that both Zappa and McLaughlin have referred to Holdsworth as 1 of the most important and innovative guitarists on the planet. I'm sure I just broke most of the rules of Wikkipedia by saying so. I can't even remember where I learned that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thaddeus Slamp (talk • contribs) 03:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC).Thaddeus Slamp 03:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey Allan Holdsworth experts who doesn't have Reaching For The Uncommon Chord, a music book by Allan Holdsworth that states on the back "He's the best in my book" -Eddie Van Halen. If Eddie says he's the best, he's the best. I've read his material, not only heardit. And don't worry if he's not that famous now, he'll be like Van Gogh: he'll be remembered as the best when he's dead and gone. He does freaking 64th notes for crying out loud. And he tried to reproduce a saxophone sound, he said it in an interview. woulldn't that make more sense, seming that he wanted to play saxophone? I repeat, Allan Holdsworth is GOD (and Van Halen is Buddha). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.247.5.81 (talk) 00:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think Holdsworth sucks. Boring monotonous unfeeling mastibatory wankery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.169.18 (talk) 01:49, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

We get it, you don't like Holdsworth. But many people (including me) disagree. Not to say that I enjoy all of his albums, but I always enjoy Wardenclyffe Tower.

I think the op (I mean the guy who made the God / Buddha analogy) is greatly overstating their point, (at least in the sense that Holdsworth should not be endlessly noted for his technique, it's not important -- he is quite an emotional guitar player and his technique is a means to that end) for what it's worth.

There's no need to use such an uncivil tone, either, it's just flamebait. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.74.5 (talk) 08:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Terrible article

I cut all the stuff that struck me as just embarrassingly amateurish. I also cut the quote from an internet site at the top of the second paragraph about what a wizard Holdsworth is, because a very brief search revealed that the entire article was in the fact the official bio from Holdsworth's own site. If anyone wants to find more testimonials from major players, go ahead. I didn't include any negative criticism because he's not all that controversial - people seem either to love him or to find him technically able but boring. It's not like Derek Bailey, who some people think can't play at all. Lexo (talk) 13:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

References

If this article is in need of citations, which to me does seem to be the case, I'd like to suggest two sources. The first is a collection of transcribed interviews, mostly from reputable sources (although, to what extent guitar mags are at all reputable is another matter!). I did all these transcriptions myself, and I've proofread them as best as I could:

http://home.no.net/pstornes/ah/home.html

The second source contains a lot of the same material the first link, with additional material added:

http://ofeuillerat.free.fr/

Kind regards, Pstornes (talk) 18:28, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Playing style section needs improvment

The "playing style" section really does not say much about Allan's playing style. Allan's playing style IS unique, and there should be plenty evidence to support it in the list of links I provided in the "References" section. First of all, lumping him in the "fusion" or "jazzrock" category is much too general. Next, there is no doubt that he premiered unique playing styles and techniques that have been widely copied (which is worth its own section actually). Perhaps the most widely recognized aspect of his playing is his legato technique for soloing. Although guitarists had dabbled with this technique, and used it as part of their creative arsenal before, Holdsworth was the first guitarist to base his entire playing style on legato. Holdsworth built this style from the ground up: He developed left-hand fingerings of scales that facilitated legato playing, he does in fact not use traditional "pull-offs", (because he dislikes the detuning when you pull the string) but rather does it all by by a very complex system of left-hand hammerons. He uses his right hand merely to set the string in motion, and practiced controlling the dynamics of hammered notes and plucked ones to the extent that you can hardly tell which is which. And that's just for his lead playing. His chordal approach was also quite unique among guitarists in his time. I don't have time to get into this right now.

Then there is the issue of how he modified his gear to achieve his sound. His guitars are highly customized, as are his amps. I dare say no guitarist ever sounded like Holdsworth the way he did on "Tempest", which is often regarded as his first greater exposure.

Then there is the issue of his composition and improvisation. These are also parts of his style that came out of very deep research and woodshedding, and contain many unique aspects.

Various aspects of his style have been very widely copied.

You might think that what I've written here is very POV, but almost every article I've read on Allan supports these observations, and if I only had the time, I would reference every single claim. If someone feels like reading through every single article in the references I posted, go ahead... It's a shame that so little of this is written into the article, because the article gives very little insight into the many unique aspects of Allan's artistry.Pstornes (talk) 18:51, 25 October 2008 (UTC)