Talk:Same-sex adoption

Italic textThis topic seems slanted to me. With its appearence in the news, I'm suprised this topic hasn't gotten a bigger article.

Then perhaps you should take it upon yourself to work on improving the article yourself :) - that is the Wiki way. If you think you can change it for the better, click on "edit this page" and have at it. --FCYTravis 05:43, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I had some doubts about the Europe map as far as Iceland, Norway and the UK are concerned; so I checked the legislation in those countries:

Icelandic Act

Norwegian Act

Adoption and Children Act 2002

In Norway and Iceland, (only) stepchild-adoption is permitted. The (UK) Adoption and Children Act 2002 (legal basis for same-sex adoption) only extends to England and Wales (at least as far as gay adoption is concerned).

In Scotland, the question is under consideration. In Northern Ireland, nothing seems to be going on.

I've changed the text, but could someone more skilled take care of the map?

--- What are the changes required for the North American map? -Dan1113 00:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC) ---

Does the case ruling in France mean that gay adoption is universally allowed, or was it an isolated case. The way the text goes makes it seem like the former, but I just wanted to see if anyone on here knew exactly. I plan to research it myself just to be sure. If it's the former, then the map should also reflect that. Ryan 09:45, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The case allowing step-child adoption is totally isolated, because the Court of Cassation has rejected it. What remains is the possibility, under certain circumstances, to share parental responsibility - including custody rights - between a legal parent and their partner. If such a judgement is obtained, then both "social" parents will have equal rights in relation to the minor child, except that the second parent is not considered "related" for things like the name or inheritance. They can even have a nasty custody war on "divorce" just as enjoyed by straight couples! Sigur (talk) 17:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Belgium now allows full gay adoption: http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/04/042006belgium.htm Dan1113 16:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Potential name change

The name Gay Adoption is ambiguous, All of the article (other than the first para.) is about the legal status of adoptions by same-sex couples; as such, I'd like to change the title and most of the references to "Adoption by same-sex couples," which would be a more accurate characterization of the issue. Let me know if this is disagreeable to anyone; I'll make the change in a few days. --Rocketfairy 21:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know who posted the above comment, or when, but I agree. Compare also Same-sex marriage. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and move the page now. Exploding Boy 06:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to rewrite it based on the new page title, but the term is clumsy - how about homosexual adoption? However, google gives five times as many hits for "gay adoption" than "homosexual adoption". Graham talk 11:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Please see the talk pages and articles on Same-sex marriage, Homosexuality, and Gay, as well as our guidelines on GLBT topics (can't recall the link now). "Same-sex" is the best term. Exploding Boy 16:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to raise the issue of including transgender in LGBT because the article does not discuss these issues. I deleted "T" from the US paragraph because it does not address legal issues that transgender parents face. raggedmeadow 16:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the issue is really same-sex adoption. "LGBT Adoption" isn't really accurate. (e.g. Bisexuals only face an issue if adopting with a same-sex partner.)71.208.11.171 07:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

---

How would people feel if this article were split into Parenting by same-sex couples and Adoption by same-sex couples? My feeling is that the controversy discussed in this article is more general and applies to both adoption and in vitro fertilisation, but the "legality" section only belongs in the current (more specific) article. -- Andrew Delong 06:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

That would be a good change, because much of the controversy expressed on this page concerns parenting by same-sex parents, not adoption as such. rewinn 02:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. -Easlak 19:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi folks. There is an existing article called Gay parenting which is extremely sketchy, unsourced, and POV at the moment. I agree that a lot of the material presently on this page is really about parenting rather than adoption, and there's also a lot of notable stuff on parental rights for LGBT who are biological parents that is as yet undocumented on wiki.

So I strongly believe that there's room for two good articles here. But a ton of work is needed. I've put a few links to notable material for expansion on the Talk:Gay parenting page.

DanB DanD 22:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've split the 'controversy' section out into the Parenting by same-sex couples article, and have moved the related discussion there. --Andrew Delong 07:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I see the article title has been changed, but the maps read "gay adoption." Could this be changed to something like "same-sex adoption"? I know this is much longer and less practical, but it's more accurate. -Emiellaiendiay 05:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

More map changes needed

According to the article, Iceland should be in purple.

Oh, and why is Åland purple? They are a part of Finland, not Sweden -- so this should be changed as well. Daniel 02:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I noticed that in the article it says "Adoption by same-sex couples is legal in . . . England and Wales . . .", and above somebody has commented "In Scotland, the question is under consideration. In Northern Ireland, nothing seems to be going on.". In the figure both places are coloured in purple indicating legal adoption by same-sex couples. I'm not sure about the status in Scotland and Northern Ireland so I can only point out the apparent contradiction not amend it. --Shastrix 19:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I approve this change... Professor from NCSU.

Couples only? How so?

This article discusses LGBT adoption in general, but the title refers only to adoption by couples, excluding single parents and households with more than two partners (and appearing to include adoption by same-sex pairs who aren't gay, such as siblings who become co-guardians of a child). I propose renaming the article to LGBT adoption. DanB†DanD 08:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, no one has replied so I going to go ahead and move the page DanB†DanD 21:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Law Very Inaccurate

The map and listing of states where adoption by same-sex couples is legal includes Ohio and Wisconsin, both states where (according to Lambda Legal) such adoptions have been denied by the courts (although other courts have allowed same-sex adoption in Ohio, putting it in the "ambiguous" category). This listing also excludes Illinois, which both Lambda Legal and the Human Rights Campaign indicate explicitly allows same-sex couples to adopt. Further, the court decision allowing same-sex couples to adopt in Washington state applies only to Kings County, not state-wide.

I will update the text with the accurate information from these two sources this weekend, but someone will need to update the maps as well, or else delete them. Viciouslies 20:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I have corrected the text on US laws. I did not fix the maps. Given the constantly changing nature of these laws (e.g., Colorado will imminently allow second-parent adoption by statute), I propose deleting the maps. -- LGBT family law attorney. raggedmeadow 16:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Position of the Catholic Church

The subject of gay adoption is a an issue in the UK right now as the government is attempting to pass into law new legislation banning discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation. Catholic adoption agencies are seeking an exemption on faith grounds, and furthermore have said they will cease to operate rather than be forced to do something that is contrary to their faith. I understand that the catholic church is not against a single gay person adopting a child but is against same sex couples adopting. What I do not understand is why the church has this stance. Does anyone understand the theological argument? I hear the argument that "same sex parenting falls short of perfection", but then surely so should being raised by a single parent fall short. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.248.216.165 (talk) 21:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

The Church takes the position that homosexuality is not a sin per se. It is the act of engaging in a homosexual relationship that is sinful. Thus, the Church sees nothing sinful if a single person happens to be gay; that person cannot be denied the Sacraments. This seems to extend to the adoption of children. As an example of this, I was once at St. Francis Xavier in Manhattan and when reading the Church bulletin was surprised to find that it apparently has an active gay congregation.Tobit2 (talk) 03:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Disputed Accuracy

Why is this article labeled as disputed? Is it because people are concerned that some of the legal information is incorrect? I just wanted to make sure that it isn't marked as disputed because there are people who think that LGBT people can't be good parents, which is irrelevant to a discussion of what laws exist. raggedmeadow 16:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It seems like it was added a while ago. The History log doesn't show it being added recently. However, it is poorly written and also poorly referenced which may be part of the problem. (Legal sections should have tons of references available and cited.)--Hitsuji Kinno 14:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Financial considerations

I have just comment out the following:

The study noted that gays, lesbians and bisexuals often take in children heterosexuals do not want, including those who are older (some already well into their teens), physically or mentally disabled, HIV+ from birth, or who have a history of misbehavior. The study states that finding suitable heterosexual couples willing to care for hard-to-place children would be difficult, a potential problem given the issues faced by children in long-term foster care.

I was unable to find this info in the cite given. Can someone clarify? -- Mdbrownmsw (talk) 19:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

My best guess would be that somebody misunderstood the information presented in Table 7 on page 12. While it does indicate that they're slightly more likely to adopt children with disabilities, it looks to me like they misread the part about the ages of adopted children (I believe the study showed they were actually more likely to adopt younger children than any other group, not older). As far as the HIV and behavior problem thing goes, well, I'm not quite sure where they were drawing that from. Maybe they were just trying to come up with a few examples, not realizing that what they were saying wasn't supported by the study. I always could have missed something, though, so someone might want to give the study one last look before deleting the errors from the article entirely. —Mears man 06:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Oklahoma adoption laws

According to this site, the law that was previously cited preventing joint couple adoptions has since been overturned, and there are now no explicit prohibitions against same-sex couples adopting. I've changed the chart accordingly. —Mears man (talk) 01:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

New Hampshire

New Hampshire's civil union law extends the rights of married people to people in civil unions. Shouldn't the chart entitled "US States’ laws on adoption by same-sex couples" list New Hampshire as extending the right to couples in civil unions (though not necessarily other LGBT couples)? -Rrius (talk) 07:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Finland

Finland now allows step child adoption so the map has to be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan1113 (talk • contribs) 11:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This claim is false. Finland allows gay fostering (and single gay adoption, but only theoretically) nevertheless Finland strictly bans gay couples adoption, even step-child adoption. The Ministry of Justice is currently debating this issue and they are proposing to allow the step-child adoption (Jan-Feb. 2008). The most important issues are to avoid possible violations of paternity rights and the fact that many Finnish laws are written so that they link legal parenthood to maternity and paternity, so that a gay adoption law would require special additional provisions for mother's or father's same-sex partners and their rights.

88.114.29.104 (talk) 22:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Queer:Finnland für Homo-Adoption (german)

it is correct. In Finland a bill allowed LGBT adoption. GLGermann (talk) 19:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a bill but it is yet to pass (as of Sept. 2008). Therefore, step-child adoption of same-sex couples is still illegal. Who has removed the "fostering allowed"-remarks, anyway???

91.152.96.222 (talk) 20:13, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Portugal

Same-sex adoptions are totally illegal in Portugal. (Articles 1577, 1979 and 1992 of the Portuguese Civil Code). Portugal should be, therefore, painted in red in Europe's map. Ricdiogo (talk) 22:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Norway

Norway passed in June 2008 a bill to allow same-sex marriage. Part of the new bill is also LGBT adoption. GLGermann (talk) 16:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

• [Pinknews:Norway's gay marriage law also grants new parental rights GLGermann (talk) 16:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Controversy Section

I propose that this section should stand on its own, rather than serve as a summary of a LGBT parenting article which may be irrelevant. Currently, this section refers to the main article on LGBT parenting, yet the controversy is about adopting children not parenting them. There is a difference. As an example of the problem this causes: while studies may prove that LGBT's have successfully parented their own natural children this does not prove they are equally prepared to parent adopted children. Tobit2 (talk) 22:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I am rolling in the Financial Consideration section into the Controversy section; the cited report is an outgrowth of the controversy and meant to support unrelated adoptions by LGBT persons. Tobit2 (talk) 02:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Australia

• Same-sex parenting rights push The age

New law reform push parenting rights in Australia. GLGermann (talk) 21:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Info on Canada

The map of North America and the info provided a few paragraphs below do not match in regard to the legality in Canada. Can someone please fix this? Thanks -- Ann X Wa: Torontonian

POV language

Regarding.

• the controversy concerns vs. it has been suggested -- the latter is more favorable to the suggestions
• studies do not account vs. they fail to account -- the latter suggest incompetence, while the former is neutral
• as qualified as heterosexuals vs. simply "qualified" -- the latter suggests there was a question about whether LGBT persons were qualified at all to be parents
• total drop of paragraph about existing parenting, without any explanation at all
• insertion of new paragraph that mentions only the objections to LGBT parenting, not the support.

WhyDoIKeepForgetting (talk) 05:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

• the controversy concerns vs. it has been suggested -- the latter is more favorable to the suggestions

I'm okay with that. I'll make that change.

• studies do not account vs. they fail to account -- the latter suggest incompetence, while the former is neutral

Actually, the phrase "do not account" is simply poor english. The word "fail" is its one word equivalent. That said, I will retain the phrase as you suggest, if that helps maintain a NPOV.

• as qualified as heterosexuals vs. simply "qualified" -- the latter suggests there was a question about whether LGBT persons were qualified at all to be parents

I see your point. Thanks.

• total drop of paragraph about existing parenting, without any explanation at all

Are existing LGBT parents controversal? Maybe it upsets people, but I've never heard someone say we should remove kids from an LGBT parent. Let me know whether you still think this fits in the controversy section.

• insertion of new paragraph that mentions only the objections to LGBT parenting, not the support.

Could you call out the paragraph you are referring to. I have no idea what you mean. Thanks.

Tobit2 (talk) 14:42, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I missed that a sentence had been moved. The bit about the culture war should not, I think, merely say "with objections based on". This makes them sound disembodied, and therefore more objective than "some object because of". WhyDoIKeepForgetting (talk) 18:53, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm not strong on this point. If you want to edit to say "some object because of," okay with me. But I question your intent. It sure sounds like you are trying to make these people less credible, less objective.Tobit2 (talk) 03:43, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the Europe map, shouldn't the "Gay adoptiop illegal" legend now be removed? It seems to me that not a single European country forbids gay adoption, so this criterion is now obsolete. Either it should be removed, or (a better choice), the map should now be changed to include gay adoption laws of the WORLD, and not just one continent. 78.105.209.114 (talk) 20:32, 28 October 2008 (UTC)