Talk:Guy Debord

If you are going to change my general statements about Debord, you should back up your claims. "Alienation is more than a feeling." Says who? About what? "They invented new ones" - which ones, what are they? Claims that Debord got something right or worng are subjective opinions, not objective or verifiable facts. Nesbitt 05:54, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Debord was only one of the founders of the SI, and he wasn't really a theorist although he had a beautifully mannered writing style. A t a theoretical level I would argue that Kotanyi was much more significant although he published little - Debord had all the neccessary alnguage skills that Kotanyi had yet to develop. Harrypotter 15:48, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

WHERE??????????

That's breathtaking: Not one word about where on this whole wide world he lived! --Waldirei 21:57, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, he lived in Paris. When something relevant's missing from an article, insert it, don't whine on the Talk page. -- Simonides 15:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Just shaking it out of my sleeve, or what? In this field, I'm a reader, not a researcher. --Waldirei 16:19, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

in response to this, yes, Paris in his earlier life. I've tried reorganising, but there may be a better solution. More detail on his life is obviously needed Gwaka Lumpa 11:20, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

if the left knoweth what the right doeth

Could anyone peruse http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Debord to see if there is anything that could be added to this article?

Lebovici

I think we could do with some stuff on his alleged role in the Lebovici murder. I'm aware that the allegations don't stand up for a second, but they were made and are still repeated. Could serve to help set the record straight, if nothing else.FrFintonStack 04:06, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

re: Lebovici

I've created an entry for Gerard Lebovici. I don't think there were any real allegations against Debord, just a lot of press smears. Debord fought libel actions against three papers and won. See the link from the Lebovici page.

In a similar vein, Phillip Roth suggested Debord was an agent of the Mossad. Interesting considering Lebovici was powerful and Jewish and seemed to finance Debord.

Another thing I am interested in is the way Debord's esotericism suggests links with the occult, which the LPA seem to believe he had. Look at this from Panegyric I:

"It is true that I have tasted pleasures little known to people who have obeyed the unfortunate laws of this era. It is also true that I have strictly observed several duties of which they have not the slightest idea. “For you see nothing but the external appearance of our life,” the Rule of the Temple stated bluntly in its time, “but you do not know the severe commandments within.” "

AFAIK the Rule of the Temple is a document of the Knights Templar and has some kind of Masonic significance. Then he goes on to say:

"I should also note, to cite all the favourable influences met there, the obvious fact that I had occasion then to read several good books, from which it is always possible to find by oneself all the others, or even to write those that are still lacking. This quite complete statement will stop here."

This sounds very "occult" to me!

Sorry, but it's a mess

I just read the article, and it's full of problems. It is anachronistic to suggest the Lettrists were 'proto-punks' - they were a typical European avant-garde art group. The founder, Isidore Isou, needs to be mentioned. Isou founded the Lettrist Movement. Debord led a breakaway group, the Lettrist International, which alienated Isou by publishing attacks on Charlie Chaplin and disrupting Easter mass at Notre Dame. The SI was formed from members of the LI, not the LM. The artist Asger Jorn, who largely funded the SI, should be mentioned - as well as Debord's two wives, both gifted writers, Michelle Bernstein and Alice Becker Ho.

It's a wild over-statement to suggest the SI was a major catalyst for May 68. What is correct is that SI slogans and pamphlets were passed around, and Debord entered the occupied Sorbonne to participate in directing the protests. The claim that his later work was "pessimistic" is inadequate - all his work is garbed in melancholy and nostalgia, and yet at the same time he never gives up on revolutionary change - unlike, for example, his contemporary Baudrillard.

His political theory needs to be stated precisely. The spectacle is what the commodity has become in the period of late capitalism. The creation of situations, the derive and detournement are strategies to combat the spectacle.

This occultism stuff may be interesting, but the article needs to get the basics right first.

hypergraphy

What's the source of the claim Debord was a "hypergraphist"?

To me the term sounds like a Lettrist solecism, which Debord wouldn't have liked applied to him. I think the SI and LI terminology should be confined to their respective articles.

Never heard of Guy Debord beeing a "hypergraphist". Sources or references are greatly needed. Chaica 10:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I put a tag to ask for sources or references. If no source verification is given, the information will be removed. Chaica 10:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to be some obscure exercise in which the LI briefly indulged; I'd argue delete from the first sentence because it's just not notable. No biography of Debord (in English, anyway) mentions it.KD Tries Again 19:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)KD

POV

"After the dissolution of the Situationist International, Debord became increasingly self-isolated, and his writings more pessimistic." That's a view. Andy Merriman, in his recent biography of Debord, takes a different view.KD Tries Again 19:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)KD

Okay, I took out the POV characterisation of his later writings, and the unsupported diagnosis of alcoholism and made the last sentences more neutral. He was far too busy in the 1970s and 1980s for him to be regarded as in "isolation" without any qualification. I linked to a site which has a good record of his post-SI activites. KD Tries Again 18:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)KD

He definitely was an alcoholic, though. Perhaps not in any diagnosed sense of involuntary addiction, but in the vernacular sense, certainly. He's quite candid and nonchalantly romantic about it in Panegyric, and cites drinking as both a formative experience and creative process...

84.69.98.153 (talk) 23:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)tarma_2002

A Game of War

'Le Jeu de la Guerre' has been published in English (Amazon Link). Since this is an English article shouldn't reference 3 should be updated to link to this instead? --Kavrod (talk) 18:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

It was also coded into a video game. I have it on my Mac here. Alice Becker Ho brought an injunction against its distribution.. I gotta update the article with this info..