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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hydrokinetics12 (talk | contribs) at 07:31, 25 November 2008 (→Final Fantasy X: comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Final Fantasy X

Previous FAR
Notified User:Ryu Kaze, WP:Final Fantasy

This article has a lot of issues. Here are the highlights: several unsourced statements and the entire Sphere Grid section has no refs, an overly large storyline section, a poorly designed references Reception section, several one- or two-sentence paragraphs (WP:MOS), and several statements in the lead look like they aren't part of a general overview, as they are specific details. --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 04:19, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What does "a poorly designed references section" mean? It's... a reflist. There's no design. --PresN (talk) 06:19, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I meant to say "Reception" section (I was typing fast 'cause I really needed to hit the hay.) What I mean is that some scores are scattered throughout the prose, others are put into a list, making it look disorganized. --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 18:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Development section could be expanded also. It's kind of poor for a featured article. The game is the "best game of all time" according to the Famitsu readers, and the main designers of the game are by far the most talkative people at Square Enix, so there's bound to be more information available. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 18:49, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there's quite a lot of development information — it's just allocated to the appropriate sections. The "development" section is for information that does not fit with the other sections. Also, you're not going to get a lot of enthusiasm for trimming the story section, as veteran editors of Wikipedia — which summarizes most of the members of the FF wikiproject — know of the constant bickering between short and comprehensive summaries. — Deckiller 00:00, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps in most cases the issue of short/long story sections is debatable, but it's not in this case. It contains numerous details that aren't at all necessary to demonstrate how the story works. Moreover, these excessive details hamper readability, making it nearly impossible to make sense of the game's story. --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 05:48, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree; the story section contains far too many details as it stands. However, unless opinion has shifted again, the WikiProject may not be willing to trim the story themselves, as they were forced to expand it to the current length in the previous review (and I believe it was even trimmed after that, against supposed advice). I'm basically retired, so I won't be able to turn this article into something that matches the norms of 2008. — Deckiller 07:01, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your best bet might be to go into the edit history and find an earlier, more succinct version of the setting/characters/story sections. — Deckiller 07:08, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My general experience is that the Wikiproject is ambiguous when it comes to how storylines should be covered. I try to clarify that an issue exists with the total style of the summary in reviews, yet users often try to resolve such concerns by removing a few adjectives to make it "shorter". If it is felt that it needs a summary style, yet the story reads as a point-by-point recount, then the whole thing needs to be rewritten in my opinion. The problem is that users seem to agree that it needs to be shortened in the review, yet the problem recurs in their successive articles. It is unhealthy for FAC contributors at peer review or FAC to take the prompts as absolute truths when they are partially subjective. In my experience, users have been known to make amendments even if they disagree with the advice, even though the option of arguing the case is a perfectly viable one. I was browsing an FAC one day that had a bloated, point-by-point storyline and an influential VG editor commended it especially in his/her review, which is not uncommon. I've felt for a long time that the issue needs to be raised at the VG project, although I also gave up on discussion there a long time ago too. Rant over. Ashnard Talk Contribs 12:08, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll give trimming the story section a shot. I think most of the active members of the VG project are in agreement that shorter is better for plot summaries. So it shouldn't be an issue. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC))[reply]
Didn't trim as much as I hoped, but I shaved 1KB off the total size and got it down to six regular sized paragraphs. Hope it's an improvement. (Guyinblack25 talk 22:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC))[reply]
That looks pretty reasonable. — Deckiller 23:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I brought the images issue up before. Maybe the Farplane or the Map images can be removed, in favor of the "Sending" scene, which is a better descriptor of the game's art. Also, for a character-driven game, I'm surprised there's no shot that has all of the game's main characters. --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 22:46, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, the gameplay section itself is too long, and the plot section should be severely trimmed in terms of setting (including all that unsourced information), and trim and merge the spirituality section into the setting. There's a serious issue of over-reliance on primary sources and I'm getting a vibe of WP:OR throughout. As for development, I'm not exactly swayed by the suggestion that the section is fine as it is. Sure, there's information in other sections (Audio, versions and merchandise), but these sections should be reorganized within the article in a more logical fashion if this is where the content is; the merchandise section, for example, should go before reception. I'd say it currently has issues with 1a, 1c, 3, and 4 of WP:FA? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The merchandise section has been placed before the reception section. I hope it is an improvement. Greg Jones II 15:01, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to move this to FARC but I'll leave it up as people are working. Marskell (talk) 14:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've finished copy-editing and cleaning up the article. I think I've addressed all concerns that have been brought up adequately, and I think it should keep its FA status, even though it has one unreliable source. The Prince (talk) 11:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • And that one source is? I'm still not swayed by the length of the plot, but perhaps a user who's never played the game can clean it up better; I'll take a look in the coming days. There's still the referencing issue in gameplay and throughout. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 00:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm not sure of the plot-merit of naming each of the aeons; they are not prerequisite to understanding the story at large. Actually, that's one of the things that irritated me about the lengthier plot section. --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 07:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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