Talk:Hallelujah (Leonard Cohen song)

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An infobox for the Jeff Buckley version of "Hallelujah" has been requested at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles/List_of_notable_songs/6.

Clarification

"Rufus Wainwright also covered the track, emphasizing the piano – and his version was included on the Shrek soundtrack in 2001, although it was John Cale's recording from the tribute album I'm Your Fan that inspired Wainwright's and was used in the film itself. (Wainwright apparently replaced him on the soundtrack because he is signed with Dreamworks SKG and Cale is not.) The Shrek theme music was also based on "Hallelujah."
I think this means that the music in the Shrek movie is Cale's version while the one on the CD Soundtrack is Wainwright. The first sentence isn't clear though. How about;
Rufus Wainwright covered the song, with an emphasis on the piano. This version was inspired by John Cale's recording from the tribute album I'm Your Fan. Cale's version is used in a scene from the movie Shrek, while Wainwright's is used on the Shrek soundtrack album, due to Wainwright being signed to Dreamworks SKG. The theme music for Shrek was influenced by "Hallelujah."

Ozchrisb 16:44 28 October 2006 (AEST)

I've heard that Cohen actually covered this song. However, I have not acquired any credible sources for the statement - is it a myth or what?

Jobjörn 13:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean covered this song? He wrote and first performed this song.--Prosfilaes 14:38, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Chord progression

If the tonic is C-major, what chord does ^V/_vi denote? I've half a mind to change it back. – Hattrem 16:27, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You first treat vi (A minor) as a temporary tonic, and then take the V (E major). The "V/vi" symbol describes what the chord really does, while "III" is non-standard and looks like it's supposed to be the relative major of a minor key (but you're in major). rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 23:43, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! – Hattrem 17:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a beautiful chord. I think it's what makes this song so great. This song is in C, so it is a secondary dominant on the vi chord, Am. In normal diatonic harmony, the iii chord should be minor, but by making it major, you have a really nice leading tone to the vi chord (G#-A). Coming from the V chord initially provides a really nice chromatic bass movement. I'm pretty sure the bass moves from a G to a G# and then to an A in the recording, and that would be the most ideal movement. Anyways, that's my little music theory blurb for the day. This song is still absolutely gorgeous, whether it's because of a secondary dominant or not :-p. Kntrabssi 17:32, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So... What's going on with that chord... the V/vi describes the chord correctly... what's there doesn't make senese...

Chord Progression, part 2

While roman numeral analysis is appropriate here because of the self-reference in the song, it is not the best idea to attempt to list the actual chords. First of all, different recordings of this song will naturally be in different keys. Secondly, as was a previous issue, it is difficult to tell whether the borrowed chord, the E major chord, is a seventh chord or not. In theory, it is the best idea, obviously, because it serves as a false dominant to the false tonic that follows it. However, since the only actual way of verifying this truthfully would be to get the music from Leonard Cohen, it is not Wikipedia's place to list something like that here. Thus, I have removed the chords, but left the Roman numerals and the part about the self-reference. Kntrabssi 02:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Song not written by Cohen?

I don´t think the song is written by Leonard Cohen. See this YouTube video. In it he says that Icelandic performer Gunnbjörg Ólafsdottir (though I´m not sure on the name as it´s really hard for me to catch) did the original and gave him the record. --Thor Andersen 10:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He doesn't say she recorded the original in that video. In fact, when he talks about it afterward, it sounds like hers is a cover, and he's trying to remember his original verses to glean what she is singing when.

There are two versions of the song that Cohen himself has recorded. The original version from 1984's Various Positions, and one with different verses from 1988's Cohen Live. When Cohen says in that interview that she recorded "the original", he is indicating the version of the song (the choice of verses), not the authorship. Leonard Cohen is most definitely the author of this song. Kraken137 05:25, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rammestein (Spelling?)

the same one played by these guys??

this is definitely not the same song that was performed by Rammstein! Jud 17:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dave Dobbyn

Dave Dobbyn did indeed sing a song named "Hallelujah Song", but it was not this one. I can only find limited information[1] on the song he wrote, his version however contains lyrics that talk about an assassination attempt against the Pope (not the 1981 Pope John Paul II assassination attempt, his assassin is not initially caught). Can anyone confirm this, and if so, maybe we can correct this article? --Zaf^(t) 19:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anywhere you can get all the 15 verses?

The Original version together with the live version makes 7 verses, where are the rest? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.231.181.61 (talk) 17:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would love to know this as well. --PulpAffliction (talk) 07:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[I'm gonna post the following stuff here (after which then I may (or may not?) find time to extract a point or two from it for the article(?)).]

[Amazon Prime]: "John Cale relates that upon hearing Cohen perform the song live, he asked if he would send him the lyrics, and was later overwhelmed when Cohen sent him not merely the verses he sang that night, but all the verses he had written. Cale took them, and redacted the version that nearly all performers have followed since. In truth, while Leonard Cohen is the composer of the song, John Cale deserves credit for establishing the definitive version."

[So, hmm, maybe Cohen saw competing versions of the song as a work in progress, with there still being some competition between variant renderings of verses and maybe more verses that have never been formally been incorporated into the song? (But I'm just speculating.) Anyway, here are the known lyrics.]

"Allelujah"

1. Now I've heard there was a secret chord That David played, and it pleased the Lord But you don't really care for music, do you? It goes like this he fourth, the fifth The minor fall, the major lift The baffled king composing Hallelujah

2. Your faith was strong but you needed proof You saw her bathing on the roof Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew her She tied you to a kitchen chair She broke your throne, she cut your hair And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

3. You say I took the name in vain I don't even know the name But if I did, well, really, what's it to you? There's a blaze of light in every word It doesn't matter which you heard The holy or the broken Hallelujah

4. I did my best, it wasn't much I couldn't feel, so I learned to touch I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you And even though it all went wrong I'll stand before the Lord of Song With nothing on my lips but Hallelujah

---[Leonard Cohen]: This mad period started with Various Positions. I remember writing this song "Hallelujah"; I filled two notebooks with the song, and I remember being on the floor of the Royalton Hotel, on the carpet in my underwear, banging my head on the floor and saying, "I can't finish this song." After I wrote the one version [for Various Positions], 1 wrote another lyric which I'm doing now, which goes like this:

Baby, I've been here before. I know this room, I've walked this floor. I used to live alone before I knew you. I've seen your flag on the marble arch, But love is not some kind of victory march, No it's a cold and it's a very broken Hallelujah.

There was a time you let me know What's really going on below, but now you never show it to me, do you? I remember when I moved in you, And the holy dove was moving too, and every breath we drew was Hallelujah.

Now maybe there's a God above, As for me, all I ever learned from love Is how to shoot at someone who outdrew you. and it's no complaint you hear tonight, and It's not some pilgrim who's seen the light it's a cold and it's a very lonely Hallelujah.

[--That was the prototype of the defeat. --Cohen.]

(Variations on the Last Verse)

Maybe there's a God above, But all I ever learned from love Is how to shoot somebody who outdrew you. It's not a cry that you at night It's not somebody who has seen the light It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah.

Now maybe there's a God above, But all I ever learned from love Is how to shoot at someone who outdrew you. But it's not a cry that you hear tonight And it's not some gleeful laughter From somebody who says he has seen the light, It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah.

Now maybe there's a God above, As for me, all I ever learned from love Is how to shoot at someone who outdrew you. But it's not a cry that you hear tonight It's not some gleeful christian who has seen the light It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah

— Justmeherenow ( ) 22:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Use in The O.C.

Isn't one of the uses of this song in the O.C. by Rufus Wainwright? It says that there are two by Buckley and one by Imogen Heap... 24.136.45.122 08:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ummmmm...

What is the song about?03:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

ummm, what is your question about? Paul B (talk) 23:52, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

K.D. Lang also performed "hallelujah"

Cover Versions

Ok, American Idol songs are not cover's of any song they sing on the show. They're not even complete songs, they're snippets of songs sun in a notable competition, but they are not themselves notable versions of the song. If a song becomes notable AFTER the show because an artist featured on the show re-records it, then it warrants inclusion. In 5 years literally nobody will remember that some kid on American Idol sang Hallelujah, nobody will remember that some kid same Hot Blooded or Imagine, or You're So Vain, etc, etc, etc. If Jason Castro leaves American Idol and performs this song on an album, then that would be a cover version and that would warrant inclusion, every joe blow who sings a song on one of the MANY Idol shows is not a notable cover. Additionally, there's no evidence of a correlation between the song being on the show and it being so popular on iTunes. Sure it MIGHT make sense to some, but there's no evidence of if, and including that bit is original research. Batman2005 (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're kidding yourself if you think there's no correlation. Why was the song nowhere to be found in iTunes top selling songs on Monday. Jason performs the song Tuesday to glowing reviews, the judges mention that Jeff Buckley's is probably the most well known version of the song, and BOOM two days later Jeff's version is #1 on iTunes. You're joking if you think that that's not extremly notable, and there's no reason it should not be included in the article. The song's achieved a level of popularity not seen in years, if ever, and has reached a whole new generation because of the performance, sure sounds notable to me. The only reason you don't want here is because you obviously don't like the show American Idol, but that doesn't change the fact that it has given this song a new life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.38.0.219 (talk) 12:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Batman2005 never said that he thought there's no correlation. I'm sure that we all think that there is, but that's not reason enough to include it in the article. The reasons not to include it are Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research, which are binding policies on Wikipedia. Unless a reliable source outside the project comments on the correlation, it doesn't matter how "obvious" we all find it to be. -- Jao (talk) 13:37, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First off Jao is correct, I have never said that there is no correlation, I have said that there is no proof of a correlation. Secondly, I do in fact enjoy American Idol quite a bit. I am not one of the people out there, and there are many, who think that just because some kid sang a song on American Idol, that it needs to be listed as a cover version on te songs site. Surely, if Jason Castro, at a later time, records the ENTIRE song for an albumn, it will become notable enough for inclusion. What he did on the show was about 2 verses and the chorus and that's it. It's not even a cover version, it's a snippet in what amounts to a Karaoke contest. Additionally, I assure you that Hallelujah has achieved a level of popularity much higher than what it is seeing right now. This song being sung on Idol didn't do anything "bring it to a new generation." Shows like The OC and Shrek brought this song to the attention of the generation that Jason Castro belongs to. Furthermore, it doesn't matter what seems notable to you. It must be verifiable and must not be original research. The balance of that paragraph was original research, which is why it was, and will stay, deleted. Batman2005 (talk) 17:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added it back in. And if you want to start discussing rules, Batman2005 is in clear violation of the 3 revert rule. 66.182.71.226 (talk) 05:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a link for you guys. [2] (Did anyone try a simple Google search?) [3] [4] Now, I recognize that search results don't end the discussion. But this endless reverting by a few is getting a bit silly. 66.182.71.226 (talk) 05:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I am in violation of nothing. I am however, removing original research. There is still no proof of a correlation between the two. Batman2005 (talk) 10:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then what's this? [5] [6] [7] [8] Here's the rule. 66.182.71.226 (talk) 17:50, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know the rule, and I did not violate it. I reverted 3 times, and then removed information that consensus had already established was original research. You'd notice, if you'd actually look at articles, that now that there is a source outlining a correlation, that I have left the information in. Either way, i'm not going to argue policy with a user who has a history of about 20 edits. Batman2005 (talk) 02:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you did violate it. And isn't it obvious that I have more experience than 20 edits? I'm not signed in. 66.182.71.226 (talk) 03:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Is this better? TK421 (talk) 03:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, Not better. Instead of trying to dupe people, how about signing in and posting under one name? I violated nothing. End of discussion. The information is remaining on the page now that it's sourced, ergo, discussion over. Batman2005 (talk) 16:43, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Enough with all the listing

Paragraphs consisting of long lists of people who've covered the song, or tv/film uses of the song, make for a bad article. Can you imagine anybody actually reading through the 'Cover versions' section in its current state? Let's just cut it down to a statement that yes, there have been a lot of covers, and give a handful of examples. Just a handful (five at most) and only the particularly notable examples as well. Then can people please stop adding their favourite covering artist to the endless list? --VinceBowdren (talk) 00:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pete Wentz's attempted suicide?

What reference is there that says the song was playing in a car that Pete Wentz supposedly attempted suicide in? I was to believe that the song was called Hum Hallelujah because the song samples the Cohen song —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.195.137.186 (talk) 14:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

X-Factor "cover"

I removed the X-Factor section for the following reasons:

1. The song is not out yet, so why there is expected chart positions and info boxes is beyond me. 2. There are plenty of covers of this song so I don't see why X-Factor gets special treatment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riksweeney (talk • contribs) 11:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it should go in the cover version list. Having a separate section - at the moment - is unecessary. Keep that on Alexandra Burke. If it becomes the fastest-selling single of all time, then maybe. By the way it has been released for download as of midnight. Panthro (talk) 00:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it gets special treatment because its gonna be huge? Get a life! It deserves its own page. You are so pathetic. ALEXANDRA ONE GET IT RIGHT UP YEAH!