Talk:Montenegro

Previous discussion have been archived. Archive 1 Archive 2

Municipalities

can anyone correct the mistake here> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro#Municipalities in n - numbers are 1-12 in 2 rows instead 1-21 - golubovi and tuzi are co-municipalities inside of Podgorica —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.222.10.86 (talk) 20:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

2nd paragraph

Does this make sense? "A Serbian principality independent principality..." The meaning is unclear to me as a naive reader. Can you improve? ike9898 (talk) 17:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Montenegro was never "Serbian", until 1918... The sentence above is just Serbian propaganda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.188.32.8 (talk) 11:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

SYSTEM: Semi-presidential republic ?

By constitution Montenegro is "just" a republic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.188.32.8 (talk) 12:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

MOntenegro does not border Kosovo it is Serbia

The United Nations says that Serbia is sovereign over Kosovo so therefore Montenegro borders Serbia. The United Nations judges what countries are really in existence. 167.206.75.157 (talk) 19:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Native language of Muslims

What is native language of Muslims? --91.124.205.64 (talk) 11:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no "native language of Muslims" in the western Balkans. The most of them are descendents of the natives (South Slavs) Islamized during the Ottoman expansion (Turks). Their language is the same as one of the locals in the region, depending on location (South Slavic languages). Muslims are the most numerous in Bosnia, their language there is Bosnian (South Slavic), only enriched with some Turkish words in vernacular usage, but nothing more. Zenanarh (talk) 11:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Muslims of Montenegro speak the same language as people of ortodox or catholic tradition and Slavic origin. They call their language either Montenegrin or Bosnian. Montenegrin language is ijekavian dialekt of stokavian dialekt of former Serbo-Creoatian language, so it is NOT a dialekt of Serbian language only, since ijekavian isn't even spoken is Serbia, but is spoken in Bosnia and great part of Croatia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.94.121.128 (talk) 21:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

sports

somebody please update this section and add links —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.198.8.211 (talk) 10:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo

As Montenegro; the vast majority (5 out of 7) former Yugoslav states The vast majority of European States; recognise Kosovo's independence, this article should not pander top the Serb POV that Kosovo is part of its "claim" to "Greater Serbia". 92.39.199.107 (talk) 14:31, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, on Wikipedia we abide by WP:NPOV, not by this or that majority. Until all countries recognize Kosovo, it will always be a disputed territory and our articles must reflect that reality. Húsönd 14:52, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry Husond but, not all countries recognize Israel or PRC but we don't consider them to be "disputed territories" now do we? And it seems ironic to say that we don't abide by this or that majority, while claiming that the road to WP:NPOV is recognition by the majority. --alchaemia (talk) 03:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

During the 1991–1995 Bosnian War and Croatian War, Montenegro participated with its police and military forces[clarify] in the attacks on Dubrovnik, Croatia and Bosnian towns along with Serbian troops

During the period mentioned (1991-1995), Montenegro did not have its own military forces. The only army that existed and carried out those attacks was Yugoslav People's Army (which from 1992 became Yugoslav Army), with president of Yugoslavia as its Commander-in-Chief. The following is from Wikipedia's article "Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" (it's the part about who were presidents between 1992-1997): "The first president from 1992 to 1993 was Dobrica Ćosić, a former communist Yugoslav partisan during World War II and later one of the writers of the controversial Memorandum of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts. Despite being head of the country, Ćosić was forced out of office in 1993 due to his opposition to Serbian President Milosevic. Ćosić was replaced by Zoran Lilić who served from 1993 to 1997, and then followed by Milosevic becoming Yugoslav President in 1997." There is also an article about Yugoslav Army on Wikipedia saying that president of Yugoslavia was also a Commander-in-Chief of Yugoslav Army. Therefore, in my opinion, it would be more accurate to say that it was Milosevic, directly or indirectly, that carried out those attacks using Yugoslav Army forces stationed in Montenegro and not "Montenegro with its military forces". Or just to say it was Yugoslav Army. Also, I would like the part about Montenegro's police forces paticipating in the attacks to be clarified. As it was clarified with the cases of deportations. The other question is if in such a short article about the history of Montenegro, these very few incidents should be mentioned at all, not at least to say that they were orchestrated from a town in Montenegro that has predominantly Serbian population, greater than in any other town in Montenegro. One can feel for the people that lost their lives and for their families, (as I do very deeply), but this is not about that. The context it was written in is wrong, some statements are false and in my opinion, it's irrelevant for the article as a whole. Thanks, Zero Kerub (talk) 05:10, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Languages in use

Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian... don't have status of official language, but languages in use. That says constitution, and it should be changed.

Rave92 (talk) 14:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

No, the constitution says that Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian AND Albanian are official minority languages, not languages in use. Read the constitution again, mate. --Prevalis (talk) 15:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

"Službeni jezik u Crnoj Gori je crnogorski jezik. Ćirilično i latinično pismo su ravnopravni. U službenoj upotrebi su i srpski, bosanski, albanski i hrvatski jezik."

Which of these you don't understand?

Official language: Montenegrin Languages in use: Serbian, Bosnian, Albanian and Croatian. Read the Constitution again... here http://www.snp.co.me/strana.asp?kat=1&id=1278 Rave92 (talk) 09:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

No you just proved yourself wrong right there, mate. "U službenoj upotrebi su i..." which literally means "In official use are also...", so there you go, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian and Albanian are considered official languages, and that "also" parts proves it. By any chance, were you born and/or raised in Montenegro? --Prevalis (talk) 23:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I was raised in Montenegro. Anyway that means they are spoken, but they don't have the same status as Montenegrin. If it would have the same status then it would be: official language is Montenegrin, Serbian, Albanian... but it isn't. And it is done for purpose, that those languages can be studied in schools beside Montenegrin, and all had that rights eve before (for exm. Ulcinj). Rave92 (talk) 09:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

And "U službenoj upotrebi su i.." can't be translated as "In official use are also" because that's not the right meaning. IT means "But also used are...". So official is Montenegrin but also used(by minorities and in places where they present majority) are the other ones(Bosnian, Albanian, Croatian and Serbian). --213.133.4.225 (talk) 20:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe you can't translate a simple sentence to English. Here you are, word after word: Official language in Montenegro is Montenegrin language. Cyrillic and Latin letters have equal rights. In official use are also Serbian, Bosnian, Albanian and Croatian language. That "official use" part makes it "official". --Darko Maksimović (talk) 11:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Дарко Максимовић (talk • contribs)

Isn't the language map a bit out of date, considering there has been an evident change of ratio between the number of people declaring their language Montenegrin over Serbian since 2003, according to the polls? Btw, welcome back Pax. Sideshow Bob 12:28, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Everything's outdated. Especially with the curious Montenegrin-Serbian case of Montenegro. Therefore, just as the ethnic and religious (someone should make that, btw), they should stay until the next population census is conducted. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 10:40, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Montenegrin and/or Serbian in all Montenegro-related articles

Is there a general agreement on the use of Montenegrin and/or Serbian in all Montenegro-related articles ? For example, for this main one:

• Montenegrin/Serbian: Црна Гора, Crna Gora — (used in the current version of the article)
• Montenegrin and Serbian: Црна Гора, Crna Gora
• Montenegrin: Црна Гора, Crna Gora — (that is, Montenegrin alone, without Serbian)
• Serbian: Црна Гора, Crna Gora — (that is, Serbian alone, without Montenegrin)

If yes, could you provide me with a link to it ? Thank you already. - Best, Ev (talk) 18:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)