Talk:Delphine LaLaurie

• Entertaining story, but it would be nice to have some sources fo the information. Also, needs some more work on the grammar and some NPOV help. --Barista | a/k/a マイケル | T/C 07:52, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes...

I made the page just so Delphine LaLaurie would exist within Wikipedia. I was hoping someone else with more knowledge would fix it up! --Donnald 21:29, 3 September 2005

lalaurie story

In the book "Haunted America" by Michael Norman and Beth Scott, the Lalaurie story had been recounted.

Lalaurie research

I'm doing some research on Delphine Lalaurie (nee Macarty), and I'll update the entry with what I find.

--Brecluse 01:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Laulaurie image

I'm wondering what the source of this image (Delphine Lalaurie image) is. It would be nice to actually verify that it is indeed Delphine.

--Brecluse 17:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Papa La-Bas

The story is also told in John Dickson Carrs book "Papa La-Bas" (1968)

Clean up...

Could someone please "clean this up", I don't quite see what Wikipedia wants, and my entire original article has been removed... :-(

Fiction v. Fact

It's nice that you found another mention of it in the Papa La-Bas book, but this book is a work of fiction and not a reliable source. I am still planning on cleaning this up, but I've just not had time to do more research or updates. Maybe later this summer. Brecluse 17:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the claim about dead bodies being found in the flooring of the Lalaurie House is fiction, but I don't have a source. Anyone know for sure? Tulane97 14:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Donnald: where did the image come from?

I first started to do research on Delphine Lalaurie 10+ years ago as an idea for a movie. Much of the story is shockingly true. In fact the true events that occurred are way beyond most people’s imagination! I also think that the bodies discovered years later is fiction. The horror found in the attic was so much worse than this page describes! As it turns out, Ted Bundy, Gacy , and Dahmer are just child’s play in comparison. Any movie made about Delphine Lalaurie would never be rated anything except X and would never even get off the ground! A word of warning to anyone researching Delphine Lalaurie, know that what you will find are things so disturbing you may wish to never know about, and you’ll never be able to forget.

I'd really like to verify the image is indeed Delphine (one of the things I'm sure Wikipedia wants), can you tell me where you got it? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Brecluse 17:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

This website [1] seems to verify it. --Kerowyn ^{Leave a note} 08:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it merely has the image as well, but it does not list a source that I can find, and without a source it isn't verifiable. I need the actual print material that this was taken from in order to verify it. Brecluse 00:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I have read all the nineteenth century sources on this case available in the British Library (which turns out to have a pretty comprehensive selection of New Orleansiana) and none contain reproductions of this image, or any other claimed to represent Lalaurie. I think its provenance has to be rated extremely doubtful until someone can come forward with an exact source or reference to an archive holding. Mikedash (talk) 10:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Madame LaLaurie

This article should be merged with the article on Madame LaLaurie.

Fact or Fiction?

Is the story factual? The external links were entirely worthless, and the only source mentioned is a book from 1921 (which, judging by the title, is by no means focused on this person and the story). If the story were true, surely police records etc. would support it, and there'd be a whole lot more about it. I've never read about this person in books dealing with serial killers (she certainly would qualify), and a Lousianan friend dismissed this entirely as "a ghost story." The article doesn't even attempt to address that the story is not verified and is generally regarded as fiction. --84.230.123.136 18:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The Lalaurie story is difficult to verify, because even the newspaper articles of the time were sometimes embelished or even completely made up. I think we need a historian to tell us what is really known. Tulane97 18:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Delphine Lalaurie did exist, and she did live at this residence on Royal, but as Tulane97 indicates it's hard to verify what is true and what is exaggerated or false. It's something I'm interested in pursuing, but location/time makes it hard. Brecluse 16:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added an external link, pointing to a PDF of the edition where events are accounted for. Naturally, newspaper articles from that time period should be read with a critical eye. But at least it proves the incident is not a recent invention. The article in question is located at the top left of the PDF page. --80.203.143.201 16:40, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Well done, linking that newspaper article! A decapitation of most critical remarks above... Now let's find some info in police records re the event! And some info on the doctor, her husband.

Examining this story, for that is what it is, using sound logic pokes it full of holes through which its brains might be stirred, as the artcle says.

First of all: All of the victims died before they could be interviewed by anyone. This seems remarkably convenient that they were able to start a fire but were too weak to survive for long afterwards.

Second of all: The victims start a fire, in the place where they are in, to gain attention, even though they are restrained and are likely to be killed by this fire.

Third: The slaves were taken away once before, and yet said nothing of the basement torture chamber or murders etc.

Fourth: Slaves were goddamn expensive! And buying 12, much less 80 some, just to kill them, would be a monumentally large misallocation of funds. Also, if they were all kept chained, how did the mansion function without its servants? Ms LaLaurie must have found time to do the dishes, cook the meals, serve the food and take care of her children inbetween being a murderess.

Fifth: Slaves are not cattle. It is impercievable that 80 people could disappear slowly, and that no one would have a clue as to what was occuring, especially considering:

Sixth: The murder chamber was on the third floor, and was run supposedly by a lady. We must therefore understand that she disposed of the bodies by carrying them down three flights of stairs on her own. She would then have to wash off her bloody garments, all without being noticed. This is impossible, and yet its never indicated that she had an accomplice.

Seventh: Anyone imprisoned in the attic of a house in New Orleans for long would have likely died of heat exhaustion long before any tortures could be performed.

Eighth: Mme. LaLaurie was clearly not present to defend herself in any way, and it is absurd that the tale can continue without further input from her, or without word of her.

Ninth: After ten or so people are found brutally tortured in her home, she is allowed to wander off freely by the constablary.

Tenth: The article claims 75 corpses were found buried on the third floor. WHAT?

For these ten reasons I believe this article must be looked at as highly suspect, as must the legend in general. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.24.97 (talk) 01:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know anything about this, but your arguments are not very hard to turn down...

nr1: The fire was started by those servants not victims to torture. The actions performed in the chamber was evident just by looking at the victims, so it would not be necessary to ask them about more than: "Who did this?", and did not take much effort to say: "Madame", before ones last breath. Those circumstances seem to be very unclear by the way, I agree with you there; what happened to the servants not subjected to torture? According to the story, they were several servants in the house performing normal servant-duties for her guests. Had they perhaps been changed the very same day? Had she had some kind of collapse and suddenly decided to make all her staff victims? Had she been out on a visit when the fire started perhaps, and was it the custom to chaine the "free" part of the staff while she was out? and what happened to those servants not tortured, not found in the chamber, afterwards? That isn't clear. Perhaps they were interwieved? But a slave would hardly be officially counted as a witness gainst his/her owner.

nr2: Again, the fire was started by those servants not victims of torture- and even restrained, they were desperate, or convinced that the fire department would be there in time.

nr3:Who knows? No one cared what slaves said, and perhaps they realised that.

nr4:A sadist would find the money well spent. And, again; she only selected a few of the servants to be taken to the torture chamber, while the majority of course functioned as servants- though for some reason, also the rest was changed to their work places at the night of the fire. Perhaps she wanted them to die?

nr5:Well, sure slaves weren't cattle, but for upperclass- people, one servant looks just as the next one. They are not recongisable as individuals. Besides, who is to say it weren't noticed?

nr6:No one believes that the rest of the house did not know, even though they may not have taken part in the actual torture. Slaves were of course used to carry out her orders and to carry the bodies, perhaps in fear of being victims themselwes- they were not considered accomplices, as they by law was merely expected to do what they were told. Personally, I wonder why the husband was never suspected. It all sounds like medical experiments to me.

nr7:I'm sure many did. Most victims found there was found dead. And why would she wait long? She could have done so directly after they were brought there.

nr8:I really don't understand that. Wether she was innocent or guilty, she would of course deny everything. After she eskaped from town - and i find the version that she left for Paris more realistic than the silly story about her becoming a woodo queen(!) in the outskirts of New Orleans- she would hardly wish to return, whatever stories told about here there.

nr9: The chronology of events during the night it was discovered does'nt seem very clear; they are several versions. Personally, I believe the version saying that she fled imediatly after they broke in to her home is most realistic, but, by all means- the legal situations was not clear either; "people"? They were slaves after all, and not considered as full worthy people, otherwise the wouldn't have been slaves.

nr10:I agree with you there. but as it say that was found so late in time, it should not be hard to verify. I am skeptic myself; how could they hide the stench of the corpses? Perhaps some sort of embalming? Perhaps the number was exaggerated, and it was in fact only ten or so; they had ben put there shortly before the night of the fire, when they were still alive, and as the house was empty for many years afterwards, no one woild have noticed the smell...but, as I say, I'm skeptic about that myself.

Anyway, I did this just for argument sake, I know nothing about this. As far as I know, she could have ben innocent, but the slaves found in her house that night must have ben injured in remarcable ways, why else would even slave owners have been so upset? Surely, something must have happened. The whole thing seems to have been swept under the carpet in a legal sence, so it's hard to tell what is true or not; sensationalism was able to run rampant.--85.226.235.208 (talk) 09:25, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Nicolas Cage

Actor Nicolas Cage has bought the LaLAurie Mansion. [2] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.78.126.114 (talk) 09:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

• The whole Nicholas Cage part needs to be rewritten. It looks to be plagiarised from newspaper/magazine article >.> Rogutaan (talk) 05:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Why just Delphine?

Why is it just Delphine who is infamous for the treatment of the slaves etc in the house? Presumably her husband must have had a hand in it, or at least known about it?

I also think that would be interesting to know. Someone should insert exactly who did what, if there are any information about it.--85.226.235.206 (talk) 14:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the article says nothing on her husband Louis, even if he escaped when there was an angry mob. William Ortiz (talk) 05:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Auguste Macarty

I have found several sources on the net that suggests a Auguste Macarty was elected mayor in 1815. No 'Augustine' elected in 1812 is mentioned anywhere, as far as I can see. I have changed the article accordingly. 80.203.143.201 22:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Earlier history

There is very little about her life before the 1830s. There should be at least the names of her first husbands, and more about her early life in general, if this is known. Are they, for example, any indications, perhaps gossip, that she did something like this when she was young? Are there any information about her parents, and if they did something similar? This would be interesting from a psycological point of view.--85.226.235.206 (talk) 14:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The book I cited here does mention at least one of her earlier marriages, but again verifying the veracity of those mentions has proven to be difficult. I would be glad to dig up my old research and add it all though for further digging. Brecluse (talk) 20:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would be interesting and helpful, even if the verifying, as often with historical subjects, is difficult. I have found something myself which I added today regarding her first marriages. A source on the net say: She was born Marie Delphine, daughter of Louis Barthelemy Chevalier de Maccarthy. She was first married on June 11, 1800 to Don Ramon de Lopez y Angulo. When he died on March 26, 1804 in Havana, Cuba, she married Jean Blanque in 1808, who died in 1816. From there she married Dr. Lalaurie on June 12, 1825. I have inserted this as well as the source in the article. --85.226.235.206 (talk) 13:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Delphine's birthplace

The article does not state where she was born. Was it New Orleans or Haiti? It just says that her parents were members of the New Orleans community, but then it adds (almost casually) that they were killed in a slave uprising. Which slave uprising? Where and when? Loiusiana did not have many slave revolts, however, Haiti, as we all know, did.--jeanne (talk) 08:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

When I read this article last, I seem to remember that it did say that they were killed in a slave revolt in Haiti. Perhaps it was reverted, or I've read it somewhere else. Anywhay, that's what i seem to remember, though I can't say were I've read it if it wasn't here. my guess: the information about her earliest life seem unclear, so maybe the family either emigrated from Haiti during the revolt, or simply visited Haiti at the time of the revolt there. Only a guess! --85.226.47.188 (talk) 13:35, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, several sites on the net claim that her parents were killed in a slave revolt on Haiti. Here is one [[3]]. It seems as though her parents were visitng Haiti when this happened. Perhaps this had some effect in her view on slaves, who knows. --85.226.47.188 (talk) 15:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Historical accuracy

As always, the key to understanding a story is to go back to the original sources. These confirm some of the basics of the "legend", notably the alleged death of a slave girl who jumped from the roof, the setting of a fire by one of the slaves, the discovery of a number of maltreated slaves by rescuers, and Madame Lalaurie's flight. None of the ridiculously ludicrous allegations listed in the 'rumours' section are substantiated, however, and few can be traced to sources published any earlier than the late 1990s. This is not entirely surprising, as no nineteenth century newspaper would have published such lurid and suggestive details, and the 'facts', if real, would have had to come either from court papers or eyewitness testimony, neither of which have ever been shown to exist. I have added a brief corrective, but really this entire article needs rewriting to state the history clearly and to reduce the 'rumours' section to what it should be, a brief one or two line mention at the foot of the article. I would be more than happy for the main contributors to the article as it stands to take this on. Over to you, gentlemen and -women. Mikedash (talk) 10:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Citizenship

In 1775, New Orleans was part of New France, and not of the United States. Accordingly, she was born French (as much as a baby born today in French Guyana. He wasn't born in mainland France, but in France nonetheless, thereby making him a French citizen, and not a "South American"). She was not "american" (in the sense of the word as is used in Wikipedia). Please correct it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.180.152 (talk) 07:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, New Orleans was a part of Spain in 1763-1800. But otherwise you are correct. --85.226.44.74 (talk) 20:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Year of birth

In 1842, when she allegedgely died, she was sixty-something. So couldn't she be born anytime between 1772 and 1783? And be 60 or 69 year when she died?--85.226.44.74 (talk) 20:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Why was people so upset?

If everything about torture, murder, etc was all fantasy, and nothing else happened but some slaves being locked up in a room, then why was poeple so upset that she had to leave town? This was a slave society after all, surely it was not uncommon for slaves to be badly treated. So why was people so upset that she was nearly lynched? Would that not mean that the slaves was wounded in unusaul ways? Even if it was uncommon to go so far as to chain slaves, it is hard to imagine that this nearly led to a lynching in a slave society. In short; why was people upset to this degree? There must have been a reason. --85.226.45.227 (talk) 11:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)