Talk:Chink

This article was nominated for deletion on March 21, 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

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Trim down

I cannot see any benefit to the article to trim down one of the meanings of chink to what we have now, from the original below. Improvements are possible, but to render less clear by removing contexts is surely not in the interests of clarity. Here is what was before:

Chink can also refer to a small gap, or by a small margin, with reference to the closeness of objects or debating positions. For example, the following phrases are commonplace in the UK:

"I can see a chink in his armour" with reference to someone who has the potential for a hole in an argument during a debate "There was a chink of light between the curtains" to describe a small gap between curtains allowing a shaft of light through --JRL 04:50, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the current definition is clear and understandable. Your definition adds additional information at a heft cost. More importantly, your expansion is wrong or misleading. Chink does not refer to the closeness of debating positions, but rather, a fault in them -- as a crack would be in a wall. I would like clearer definition if you can come up with a compact one. Finally, the OED lists 6-10 different meanings of chink, all recent. I think we should define all of them, before focusing so much on one particular meaning. --Muchosucko 12:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Offensiveness

I'm not trying to POV this article by asserting the offensiveness of the term, I'm just trying to remove equivacatory pablam. I would argue the the offensiveness of the term doesn't have anything to do with everyone finding it offensive; it is clearly offensive to a great many people. If someone doesn't find it personally offensive, that doesn't mean it fails to offend a larger group. If there is a way to write this without a "considered" or "considered by many" nonsensical remark in front of it, I would think that would be fine, I just can't think of a way to do it without gutting the definition.--The Grza

Well, there are some East Asians who use the term among themselves.

I don't think it's insipid to state things in a full and complete manner; and furthermore I find it wrong to claim that a term can ever be 100% offensive, as there are many people, such as myself, who are never offended by simple words. As this entry somewhat resembles that of a dictionary, we must remember the rule to be descriptive and not prescriptive. I'm re-adding "considered," and if the term bothers you then we could simply remove "offensive" and let the reader form his own opinions on ethnic slurs. Citizen Premier 14:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Meh, I decided to take out "highly offensive" instead. Citizen Premier 14:43, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm puzzled by the phrase "The offensiveness of the slur is under debate." (under "Offensiveness and Reclamation." Is it actually under debate? Is there anyone who seriously states that the term is NOT offensive? To me it seems that the rest of the section does a good job of discussing cases where the word has been viewed as offensive and ways in which some are trying to reclaim it. So I'm removing this sentence. Uppernewfy 23:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)uppernewfy[reply]

I'd suggest that this page should be split in two. Shouldn't the "Chink" page refer to the official use of the word, ie "there was a chink in his armour", and if there is an unofficial use of the word, that is a separate page such as something like Chink_(Offensive Term) 220.233.111.155 (talk) 09:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anyone who seriously states that the term is NOT offensive?

Yes, the BBC actually. A football fan on 606 once made a joke about 'no chinks in United's armour' in reference to Korean Park Ji-Sung. I complained but the moderators did not remove the post because it was not against their house rules. Neilho (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's offensive if it's used to describe people of asian descent. It's not offensive if it's used as a word in the english language. It's like making the article "dog" primarily about the word "dog" be used as an offensive term to describe a woman. 220.233.111.155 (talk) 11:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From the page

"CHINK. A combination of abbreviations used to identify the Chinese Army and North Korean Army elements on US military maps during the Koran War. The abbreviation 'CHI" being placed over Chinese Army units and "NK" being placed over the symbols representing the North Korean Army units. Combined units were shown as "CHI/NK" and the enemy became knowns as "Chinks". The word was used throughout the Korean War and later to describe Asian enemies.^{[citation needed]}"

This seems dubious to me: can anyone provide a cite for this? -- The Anome 14:29, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Citation is; Personal witness to the development of the abbreviation structure. Take it or leave it, that is the way it happened!.

I was in the U.S. Military at the time and saw the development of this word to describe the enemy in verbal communications.[Texrob]

We need more than that on wikipedia; evidence from personal experience is considered original research; other evidence is needed. See also [1], which shows that the term "chink" referred to "a Chinaman" long before the Korean War. Citizen Premier 21:32, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The citation states "chink' was used in 1901 but does not show the source. As I said, I was a witness, not an original researcher. I personally think a bunch of un-informed high schoolers are in control of this page and it does not deserve the title "Encyclopedia". Furthermore,It seems these high schoolers could care less about the truth. As I said, Take it or leave it but you damned well should consider it because it was the 1950s when the term came into general use. Think there might be aconnection? Idiots! Rob

I wouldn't care if God himself came in here claiming a new etymology for the term; I wouldn't believe him without a link to a creditable source.

In most cases, Wikipedia articles include material on the basis of verifiability, not truth. That is, we report what other reliable secondary sources have published, whether or not we regard the material as accurate. In order to avoid doing original research, and in order to help improve the quality of Wikipedia articles, it is essential that any primary-source material, as well as any generalization, analysis, synthesis, interpretation, or evaluation of information or data, has been published by a reputable third-party publication (that is, not self-published) that is available to readers either from a website (other than Wikipedia) or through a public library. It is very important to cite sources appropriately, so that readers can find your source and can satisfy themselves that Wikipedia has used the source correctly.

If you're right it shouldn't be too hard to find a source! Citizen Premier 20:18, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the term came from the Manchu name for their (Chinese) Empire   "Da Qing Guo"

i.e. Great Ching Country/Empire ; many Chinese emigrated to the USA towards the end of the Ching Dynasty (in the mid-1800's and early 1900's), so a Chinese of the period could answer " I am a Ching " (i.e. Ching-citizen) to describe his nationality . To white American ears of the day this could evolve into what would be seen as an 'appropriate' racial slur "Chink" in English . This would suggest the 1902 anecdote would be correct. The misuse would arise in the same way as the 'other' racial slur "Chinaman" which is a word-for word translation of the Chinese term 'Zhong Guo ren' (China- man) for a Chinese person. Foreign accents can be a target both of good-natured kidding and of mocking abuse.

The term is likely an amalglamation of a mangled version of the word ching and the word china, as well a reference to the actual word chink. In medieval times the small slots in the facemask of a helmet was referd to as a chink which is where we get the term "chink in the armour".

merge?

shouldn' that be part of List of ethnic slurs, like "gook"? (131.130.121.106 11:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]

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Merger with English Language names for Chinese people

Oppose Chink has a completely different history than other racial terms against Chinese people. Also, 'Chink' can refer to people from any East Asian country, including Vietnam and Korea, thus making it innapropriate to merge with an article exclusively about Chinese people.Zeus1234 16:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There's enough information about this particular term to garner its own article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Easian

What about the term Easian which is short for East Asian? I have sometimes seen on forums the use of the term Easian to describe people of the Mongoloid Asian type. This term has no offensive drive behind it but has no mentioned on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.227.166 (talk) 15:18, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Caption

[[:Image:Ironchinkworker.png|thumb|right|The Iron Chink, ironically alongside a Chinese butcher, was racially marketed as a replacement for Chinese immigrants during the Chinese Exclusion Act]]. I haven't a clue what an "Iron Chink" is. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An "iron chink" is a machine that cleans salmon and readies it for canning. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Missed the point - I think

Cetitau 17:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC) cetitau[reply]

It seems there's a great sensitivity here about the improper use of the word "Chink" as it relates to Asians. And while I am as offended as the next when it comes to disparaging any group (disparaging individuals is perfectly ok). What I don't find here is any interest in a definition of the word as it is normally used in the language.

Chink: slit, crack, etc. In geology/petroleum ???? (which is what I'm looking for). I believe it means a crack or possibly a void in solid rock. Maybe some who knows how to do this could put a definition here that relates to the proper use of the word instead of all this ..... whatever about the incorrect use of it.

Well, certainly the dab line saying "for other uses see Chinese handball" is totally out of whack, and I'm not certain why it's there at all. Granted, also, the other uses you're mentioning are the most common usages of this term in English, esp. since the derogatory form is now taboo (it was rarely used in print with its derogatory meaning, except as part of character lines/dialogue...), and they should be referenced here; however they are only dictionary-meaning in nature, and not encyclopedic in character. Unless there's a good reason why chink (geology) or chink (masonry) or chink (armour) would have reasons to have articles....Skookum1 18:55, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Asians don't look alike

Shouldn't it be added where it says the guy said asians look alike that they don't look alike and are offended if you screew their nationality up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.155.150.153 (talk) 23:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Controversies Section

I got rid of this because it was uncited, and generally seemed to be absurd propaganda:

Dallas based Asian American hip-hop artist Tra$k attempted to name his 2007 and later 2009 mixtapes "Chink", this sparked protest and anger among the Asian communities. People are accusing of him of "making a mockery of racism", which Tra$k dismisses and replies "the white man don't understand! When they called us "Chinks" it was okay, but when we start calling ourselves "Chinks"...they tell us not to say it anymore? See the bullshit that the white man doing? Especially the older white people! Man, old (white) people are fucked up in the head!" But at the same time, parts of the Asian communities have put a sense of trust in Tra$k, believing that Tra$k knows what he is doing and is doing the right thing. Tra$k revealed in an interview with DDSS that his mixtape will be released sometime in late 2009.

Thanks, TheFireTones 01:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to see Wikipedia not intimidated by P.C.

Only by hiding evil does evil exists!See other Offensive terms on Wikipedia Articles on same. Gook as an example for Asians especially used during Vietnam war. Mayb e provide link to this Wikipedia article? Thanks! Aslashingsword (talk) 00:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)ginkspmaftntuo8110921stcentEAJ.Dated/deced.[reply]

Not offensive at all

I'm a graduate from Pekin High School in Illinois, and was a player on the Fighting Chinks. I'm not oriental, but I don't find the term offensive at all. Our sports teams have always been called the Chinks (or Celestials before that) and I think its wrong to screw around with tradition. I've put an NPOV tag up because I think its wrong to let PC run amok here. Chink isn't racist, its funny!

69.122.133.58 (talk) 15:14, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is flagged as offensive in dictionaries, such as the Concise Oxford Dictionary, 9th Edition. William Avery (talk) 15:24, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Where I come from, that would be called PC nazism. We've been called the Chinks, and our cheerleaders wore robes and basket hats since the get-go, and even had a gong in the stands. We don't think its racist at all, and I think it is dishonest for people to play it up as some sort of slur. Hardly anyone thinks Indians or Redskins is racist, so why should Chinks be any different?

69.122.133.58 (talk) 15:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]