Talk:Spoonerism

Spanish

I have consulted Spanish work friends who do not recognise the word bolones as being Spanish and bolones does not stand for granite. My Chilean friend says that Una cabra is a female goat or in slang would be a woman of low repute, whereas bolones could refer to a person from bolon or in Chilean slang can be big breasts.--Rodgeratkin (talk) 08:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

TV

Doesn't the sitcom series "King of Queens" have an Arthur Spooner?

The Self-Referential Spoonerism

oonerspism

 thank you. JimmyTheSaint 01:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Bush

Hmm . . . despite being solidly in the Anybody But Bush camp, I think we might want to not single out Bush as a spoonerismer (spoonerismist?) unless we can cite lots of examples from reliable sources. NPOV and all. That said, I'm going to wikify and copyedit User:JoeHenzi's most recent edit. Any other opinions? Ventura 04:09, 2004 Aug 30 (UTC)

I see that it is still there, no big deal if it is removed or not... but what happened to the large list? JoeHenzi 13:22, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It should go; it doesn't really fit in.

I agree. Seems out of place and non-NPOV. Enjoyed the rest of the article, I have to say. Uttaddmb

That was feely runny. And another from a bumper sticker (that I agree with): Buck Fush

I removed it. I'm with Ventura in the Anybody but bush camp, but this still doesn't belong here. Toveling 08:06, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

vowel harmony

I didn't think French had vowel harmony. Can some linguist check this out? -- Novalis 20:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) OK, I asked a French speaker, and confirmed that French doesn't have vowel harmony -- Novalis 21:58, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I suspect it was actually referring to assonance.

Disclaimer

I have added a short paragraph to reflect the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, saying that many attributed Spoonerisms are thought to be apocryphal.

Wrong pronoun...

"Jasper Carrot claims to have an Aunt who frequently makes spoonerisms, referring to him as a 'Shining Wit'."

If it's his aunt, shouldn't it be "referring to her..." instead of "referring to him..."? It may be an uncle, instead of an aunt, no idea. Also, why is "aunt" capitalized? I don't think it should be. I'm going to change it to her and make "aunt" lower-case. Haddock420 00:23, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey there Haddock -- the "him" here refers to Jasper Carrot; he's not insulting his aunt, he's saying his aunt insults him. I changed it back to "him". But you're right about the capitalization thing.

Capitalisation?

Given that the word "spoonerism" is derived from a proper noun, i.e. Spooner's name, shouldn't all instances of it be capitalised? For example, "Freudian", from Freud, is normally capitalised. McPhail 18:30, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Adjectives derived from proper nouns are capitalized, while other parts of speech derived from proper nouns are typically lowercased. At any rate, it's lowercased in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, The American Heritage Dictionary, and The Oxford English Dictionary.--jrowen42 00:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The way I use such a term is, it's a Spoonerism if an actual quote from the Rev. Spooner, a spoonerism if merely an example of the sort of thing Spooner is supposed to have said. 193.122.47.162 11:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

"Butterfly"

The notion that "butterfly" originated as a spoonerism of "flutterby" is a folk etymology (see here), so the comment about it should be removed or amended. --Jrowen42 23:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Sir Stifford

Stafford Cripps was Chancellor of the Exchequer in the post-War Attlee government. It was an age of austerity, and Sir Stafford was a grimly austere figure. It was popularly supposed, in non-reverential circles, that he was enjoying it, in a perverse sort of way (like a Puritan was supposed not to be happy unless he was being miserable). Traditional jocular description of such an attitude is tight, hard up, etc., Freudian reference to bowel movements and toilet training. Referring to Sir Stafford Cripps as Sir Stifford Crapps (reference to constipation) was a music hall joke, the inventor was supposedly Ted Ray, a comedian noted for quick wits and known as the best ad libber in the business. The man who said it on air, in his role as a BBC announcer (newsreader) was McDonald Hobley. This was the age when BBC announcers had to wear a dinner jacket, even on radio, where they would not be seen. Hobley fell foul of the rules on two counts, he was being disrespectful of a Government minister (even humble MPs received deferential respect in those days) and he was using coarse vulgarity, which was anathema to the egregiously middle-class Corporation at the time. Funnily enough (coincidence?) McDonald Hobley was "chairman" of the long-running radio programme Does The Team Think, a panel "discussion" featuring Ted Ray and colleagues in unscripted comments on topical issues.

This was certainly not a spontaneous verbal scramble, which a Spoonerism is supposed to be, rather a premeditated witticism.

Guy 13:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

(Sir Winston Churchill, who disliked Sir Stafford, is supposed to have remarked, when seeing him pass by, "There, but for the grace of God, goes God.")

Kostaki mou 05:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Disability

I see no reference to the various linguistic disabilities which could cause something like this.. -- Sy / ^(talk) 23:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Good point. If this is a genuine "medical" condition with a psychological/psychiatric/psychosomatic origin, then this ought to be made clear early in the article. Deserves an early mention if this is proven not so. Also, whether deliberate transposition of syllables for comic effect is genuinely a Spoonerism. Remember the Monty Python sketch featuring the man who always speaks in anagrams, and when challenged that "that was not an anagram, that was a Spoonerism", he replies "if you're splitting hairs, I'm pissing off". Guy 23:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Trevor McDonald

Didn't he once say "Cunt Kentryside" live on The News?

• I was just looking for this. Based on the low number of Google hits for "Kent Countryside" Spoonerism and "Cunt Kentryside", I think it's apocraphal. I wish it was true. A Geek Tragedy 22:32, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

SNL Celebrity Jeopardy

If you're going to include Sean Connery v. Alex Trebeck jokes from Saturday Night Live's Celebrity Jeopardy, shouldn't you also include the Buck Futter line, being a final Jeopardy answer in one episode? BigNate37 07:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I added that just before I read your comment. I also corrected the exact phraseing of the sick duck joke. nkife 06:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I added the dubious assertion because the line, if completed would probably not a spoonerism, with, in my opinion, "One's a sick duck, the other's a sick fuck". "One's a sick fuck, the other's a suck dick" doesn't make sense and would be rendered better with the former. Again, this is only an opinion and I am curious as to other opinions on this. Valley2city 05:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it work's out to "one's a sick duck, the other's a dick suck." - nkife 01:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

They're definitely going for "sick fuck." This dispute is irrelevant anyway, though, since unless there's a source that supports one telling or another, the speculation is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. I'm going to remove mentions of this joke and leave only "buck futter." Croctotheface 09:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Oonerspism or Roonerspism?

The article mentions "oonerspism", but wouldn't it be "roonerspism"? Google search turns up more hits for the latter.

• I'd go with oonerspism.. when you're switching around a vowel it gets tricky, so with SPOONER-ISM it's easy enough just to put the SP in front of ISM and leave the rest alone.. i don't know where that extra R is coming from in roonerspism. - nkife 00:01, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

"Speverend Rooner" --67.180.56.14 09:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

There'd be an extra <r> (letter) but not extra /r/ (sound) for me. So that extra <r> would make up for the <r> which becomes silent by its being put infront of the <s>. Jimp 23:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

So no spoonerisms from Bush?

I've got just one, which he used in his first run for president: "bariffs and tarriers" (i.e. tariffs and barriers). The source is Frank Bruni, Ambling into History (although Bruni writes it as "bariffs and terriers".) --Chris 03:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Toin Coss?

I'm not entirely sure, but would "toin coss" (as in the coin toss before a football game) be considered a spoonerism? I know numerous people (as well as myself, apparently) who say it constantly without even being conscious of it. - Ecksem Diem 20:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, "toin coss" is a spoonerism. nkife 00:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

What about spoonerisms in common usage?

Now I don't even really know what "common usage" might mean but I hear 'Chewing the doors' quite often. Is a section on purposeful humour through spoonerism worth adding?Favouritesnail 14:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Mood Fart photo

This photo has obviously been digitally altered rather than being a genuine photograph of the "food mart" (even a cursory glance at the first letter of each word shows this). Does such an imposture really belong here?

No, I'm deleting it. Justin Bailey 01:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Rilkoy Huz Weer

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Rilkoy huz weer.
WiiWillieWiki 16:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Pop Culture Usage Heading

This is why Wikipedia is ridiculous. Why does this article need 48 modern usage reference examples to help us understand spoonerism? "Before he joined Nirvana, Dave Grohl belonged in a band named Dain Bramage." By the 47th example, I think we understand the concept. We don't need sentence after sentence of superfluous pop culture references. Where does it end? Why not list ALL the Simpsons episodes with spoonerism in them? I can think of at least 10 more. Why the ones listed but not others? Why not just list a few pop culture references so we get the idea. 48 references is at the point of having an article entitled "pop culture spoonerism usage", which is useless it its own right. "The Quick Takes column of the Chicago Sun-Times speculated that it would be unfortunate if the child of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt (named Shiloh) were to be Christened by a descendant of Rev. Spooner (the child would then be known as Piloh Shitt)." Who cares?! Absolutely pointless conjecture. That is not at all relevant to this article. "NOFX's best-selling album was entitled Punk in Drublic." Is this a NOFX article???? We understand the concept of spoonerism NO thanks to that album reference. Pick a few (3-4) well known pop culture references and be done with it. I assume this is one user listing all their favorite Metallica puns and Simpsons episodes. Irrelevant to the article. This would definitely be listed under Wikipedia's "poorly composed articles" page. Wilhelm Screamer 06:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

It's more entertaining this way. If you understood the concept after the 10th example why did you continue reading? There are plenty of dry, crusty, scholarly articles on Wikipedia to bore you. --Bentonia School 12:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Monty Python reference

Another bit performed, as I recall, by John Cleese and Connie Booth, and set in a bookstore, had a patron requesting various books that did not exist, including "A Sale of Two Titties" by Darles Chicken.

Yup -- without the four "P"s and a silent "Q" ;) 199.214.26.180 16:01, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Funniest Wiki Article Ever

This article captures spoonerisms brilliantly. Hilarious.

definition in the lede

In the lede, it says, "A spoonerism is a play on words in which corresponding consonants, vowels, or morphemes are switched.", but yet none of the examples given below have their morphemes switched. Indeed, in one instance it even alters the following morpheme: "wasted two terms"=>"tasted two worms", which lead me to think that it is not the morpheme, but the phoneme, that is switched. Does the definition need to be modified a bit? Keith Galveston (talk) 11:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Eh? In the dialects with which I'm familiar, worm rhymes with term; the switched phoneme is the consonant, not the vowel. —Tamfang (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I meant: in the case of "wasted two terms" becoming "tasted two worms", the morphemes have nothing to do with the switch; it's the underlying /wɝm/ and /tɝm/ that's different. Therefore I question if there is a case of morphemes being switched: spoonerism doesn't seem to have anything to do with morpheme switch.

PS: I just looked at the morpheme article and it turns out that morphemes are far more unrelated to this article than I thought it to be. Keith Galveston (talk) 14:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Colonel Lemuel Q. Stoopnagle

F. Chase Taylor's radio character was a big popularizer of spoonerisms in the 1930's and 40's. I added his famous book of spoonerized tales from 1945 as an external link. There are clear echoes of this style in the Capitol Steps' "Jadies and Lentilmen" segments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.165.18.139 (talk) 05:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Goodafterble Constanoon

Hey, thing from New Zealand. This is an anti-drink driving ad on TV. A carful of guys are pulled over and someone, not the driver, addresses the police officer involved with "Goodafterble Constanoon" (good afternoon constable). Is that a spoonerism, and is knowing that useful on this page? ````Karl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.26.246 (talk) 13:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

here is another one

Muck Fichigan (It's a U of I thing) Soyseñorsnibbles^Dígame 21:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

They do the same thing at University of Kansas with "muck fizzou" (fuck missouri). Doesn't make it notable. --Politizer (talk) 23:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

beer spoonerism

There's a beer called "Dog in the fog". Read it with bold letters exchanged. --79.173.1.142 (talk) 20:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Examples section

The list of examples in that section needs to be either removed or cited better. It was originally presented as "examples commonly attributed to William Spooner" with no source information. Unless someone can point out a source in which these examples were actually given and explicitly attributed to Spooner, then this is just a random list of quotes that some Wikipedia editor happened to like. It would be nice to keep these quotations because they help illustrate the topic, but if someone doesn't reply soon I'm going to have to just delete them and refer the reader to one of the external links (such as the fun-with-words.com one) that collect Spoonerisms. --Politizer (talk) 23:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so quick to remove them all without further research. My copy of Bartlett's cites two, and the Columbia World of Quotations lists two as attributed to him. [1] [2] Even if they are apocryphal, there's probably encyclopedic value in listing the ones most commonly attributed to him, especially if we can find references debunking them. The article used to have many more examples, and I don't find the current list to be unreasonable. - Eureka Lott 03:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, that's great, if those can be verifiably cited we should definitely keep them for illustrative purposes. I will work on adding the footnotes in a moment. I am just wary about keeping things that are "commonly attributed" to someone but not attested in any trustworthy encyclopaedia, as that leaves no way to verify them and to rule out the possibility that they were just put there by someone who happened to know and like those particular quotes. There are lots of things that can be included on Wikipedia as common knowledge, but I don't think "awareness of which funny quotes people say came from William Spooner and which funny quotes didn't" is pretty far from being common knowledge among everyday readers. But yes, for the four quotes that are listed in the sources you have mentioned, we should definitely keep those and I will add the appropriate citation information in the article. --Politizer (talk) 03:59, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I added one of the quotes from Bartlett's. The second is the already-cited history lecture quote. - Eureka Lott 04:34, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. Thanks for all the cleanup you've done so far! It looks like we have a source for many of the rest of the quotes as well, and also a source that clarifies the fact that most of these quotes are not really from Spooner but have been attributed to him nonetheless--that should clear up most of the worries that I was discussing above. See the discussion at Hertz1888's talk page for more info on that source; I think that user will be updating the article accordingly sometime soon. --Politizer (talk) 05:25, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

The alt-usage-english FAQ and The Straight Dope have more examples of quotes attributed to Spooner. - Eureka Lott 05:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

The cleaned-up Examples section...

...is a big improvement over what was there before. Thanks for your editing, Hertz1888! --Politizer (talk) 04:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

...and for your initiative in ensuring that the examples had the legitimacy needed to remain. Thanks also to Eureka Lott for a key role in the preservation process.

It's nice to see a happy ending to the story. Hertz1888 (talk) 06:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Organized in order of occurrence the fairy tale section and added subheadings.

Regards, --UnicornTapestry (talk) 15:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Just had to add...

Back in the 60s there was an oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. A friend and incorrigible spoonerist said that Texas was suffering from Seeping Slickness.  :) --Hordaland (talk) 02:24, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

We call Spoonerisms - Marj'erisms in our office!--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 12:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this the English wikipedia?

I am sorry, but isn't this the English wikipedia? why do we have spoonerisms from dozens of other languages? The "other languages" section should be deleted. it has no relevance in this article. Wikipedia comes in other languages and those spoonisms should be located in their respective languages. Masterhatch (talk) 04:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, and that section has been bothering me for a long time. I've been too much of a pansy to do much about it, but if you decide to delete it I will support you. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 04:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I will be bold and delete it. This isn't a dictionary and this isn't a reference for other languages. I have no problem if there is a section mentioning that other languages have spoonerisms, but we don't need a thousand examples from a hundred languages. Masterhatch (talk) 04:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I see you beat me to it;) Masterhatch (talk) 04:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yeah, sorry about that. I was gonna wait for you to do it but then I got antsy. Plus I wanted to take all the credit for myself (I hear deletionists get all the chicks). —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 04:39, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Too funny ;) Masterhatch (talk) 07:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The "English" attribute only denotes the language used by the site, not the content within. By your standards, there shouldn't be any pages regarding non-Anglo Saxonian or non-American culture at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.68.228 (talk) 13:09, 8 March 2009

I AGREE, that "what do we care about..." & this deletion made in the speed of light is rather suspicious (in fact it stinks), & do certainly not belong to the spirit of wikipedia _ ...lucky to be able to take a look to the old versions, because it's become ridiculous! (& really unrespectfull) - 'hope you had you chicks at least that would worth something...--89.80.67.108 (talk) 23:47, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Not sure what your point was, but to clarify, yes, this is the English wikipedia. There is nothing wrong with including examples from other languages, but this article is not a list of spoonerisms from all languages. The idea of this article is to show notable English spoonerisms and show that spoonerisms do exist in other languages. For lists of spoonerisms in other languages, click on the left-hand side bar to see soonerisms relevent in other languages. Masterhatch (talk) 04:50, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

@Masterhatch: don't bother responding, the IPs above are just trolls trying to stir up drama over something that was resolved months ago. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 12:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Whitelist notification

One reference is caught up in a blacklist of squidoo, which had at least one violation in an unrelated article. I've commented out my ref while the whitelist request is being considered.

The article in question can be found at

www.squidoo.com/spoonerisms

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 14:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I came across this source several months ago when I was first cleaning up the article. It does not pass WP:RS, as it has no author information and articles on squidoo can be written by anyone. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 15:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The author is listed on the page as Rick Wales, writing under the name Moby D, who writes articles on humor. (And, frankly any article on the internet can be written by anyone! However, a read of the article shows it is well-written and sourced.)

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 15:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Not "any" article on the internet can be written by anyone; most reliable websites are ones on which content is written by hired staff (such as news websites), whereas on Squidoo anyone can decide they are an expert and write whatever they want. —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 16:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

A wit like Bikipedia then, but without the Tots and Bags. :) Jubilee♫clipman 13:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Are most spoonerism mondegreens?

Spoonerism that are sensible sentences, are they not a type of mondegreen? Perhaps a spooner-mondegreen it should be called. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hovden (talk • contribs) 00:42, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

No, mondegreens are misheard phrases ("'Scuse me while I kiss this guy"). It could be a double malapropism or even a double eggcorn - both are special kinds of word substitution - but only if the two words sound similar. However, most linguist would probably disagree. Jubilee♫clipman 13:55, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Variation on example

I recall another version of "pie is occupewed." I cannot remember the source. It goes, " Mardon me, padam, but this pie is occupewed. May I sew you to a sheet?" Does it bear further consideration?

174.43.38.150 (talk) 20:36, 13 September 2009 (UTC) Mark Allums

It is a good set of spoonerisms, but there are plenty in the article anyway. Furthermore, if it cannot be sourced then it should be left out. Then again, most of the examples are unsourced... Jubilee♫clipman 13:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Internal Inconsistency

"Spooner came along at a time when the archetype of the blunderer was changing from someone who blundered deliberately to someone who did so accidentally...the shift (to deliberate mistakes from accidental blunders)". There seems to be something wrong with this so I thought I'd just point it out in case someone is confident enough in their knowledge of the subject to change it before I reach that point. Rehjanis (talk) 13:02, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions

Examples need to happen sooner in the article, and they need to be current. I've never heard any of them. It was like they were quoted from movies from the 1930's.

Second, it's somewhat insulting to the intelligence to have each example properly "translated" (as if and average person couldn't figure it out). I get spam e-mail from idiots that do this, and all I really understand is that they are too stupid to understand that most people can figure things out.

Which brings me to my primary point. The REASON why these "spoonerisms" are note-worthy is the collectively shared experience of having to figure them out. Having that stolen from the reader by the article itself is a big minus. People that research spoonersims certainly have the mental capacity to decode them and thus feel the full effect of experiencing them. It's tedious, distracting and annoying to have the explicitly spelled-out anyways.

99.137.251.249 (talk) 06:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)Jonny Quick

But, alas, Wikipedia is meant to be readable by anyone, not just someone who has prior experience in the subject matter. Therefore, providing the translations is extremely helpful for someone who does not quite understand what a spoonerism is. Mego (talk) 00:44, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Another Spoonerism

Here's another one that may be noteworthy: "Let's get out before the fit hits the shan." It's used to avoid cursing, and can be found in many places, including discussions about economics and in song lyrics. According to source, it originated in a movie with Christian Slater, while other sources I've found state the un-spooned saying came from farmers (think mechanical fertilizer spreaders), and then later became a spoonerism. Mego (talk) 00:55, 18 April 2010 (UTC)