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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 204.248.24.161 (talk) at 18:42, 20 May 2010. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Redirect to Kingdom of Prussia per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:CFORK

The current article is largely a content fork of Kingdom of Russia, which is the primary topic for the term ambiguous term Prussia. Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:CFORK, Prussia should redirect to Kingdom of Prussia. Since this article (Prussia) is slightly more developed than Kingdom of Prussia, the relevant sourced parts should be merged before redirecting. Comments? 07:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, redirecting would be wrong, Prussia and the Kingdom of Prussia are not the same. Prussia existed before and after the Kingdom of that name. (The home of the Old Prussians, the realm of theGerman Knights, a Polish Duchy and a state of the Weimar Republic). --Kgfleischmann (talk) 11:42, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of the different meanings of Prussia, that's why I referred to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The region or duchy of Prussia you mentioned above are not the same as the Berlin-based state (kingdom) of Prussia this article is about. If someone is looking for "Prussia", they usually mean the kingdom (see traffic stats), not the region and the provinces/duchies therein. As for the free state, a "free state" is nothing but a former kingdom, and Prussia's time as a free state was only the time of the Weimar Republic (i.e. a decade). The time Prussia was a great player of international (and national) importance was the time of the kingdom, 1701-1918. In any case, it does not make sense to have two articles, this one and Kingdom of Prussia, which are largely identical and cover the same topic. For everything named Prussia beside the kingdom, there is a dab page and dedicated articles. Skäpperöd (talk) 12:54, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about more than the kingdom, possibly you should study the table f contents. I could agree to make Kingdom of Prussia a redirect to paragraph 5 of this article. --Kgfleischmann (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Section 5 (about 80% of the article) is a copy of Kingdom of Prussia, or vice versa, therefore the CFORK argument. All other sections consist of just a few paragraphs without any subsections. Section 2 deals with geography and population of the kingdom, section 1 explains the Prussian flag and CoA. What remains are the sections "free state" and "end" - these are an abstract of the few years of aftermath, link the main articles and would well fit in the "kingdom" article also. The section "brandenburg-prussia" is about the precursor and legitimately serves as background. The section "Early history" should be cut and replaced by "ethymology", "name" or something, as it is not about the early history of the state of prussia, but of the region with that name.
I would not object to have "kingdom of prussia" redirect here and keep this article focussed on the kingdom, as is the case now. What I do object to is two articles about the same topic, which are largely mirrors and both in bad shape. I have just turned Brandenburg-Prussia, which was in a likewise messy and unsourced state, into a well-referenced article, and intend to start working on the kingdom article too, but I want to have the technical stuff sorted out first. I don't want to invest my time and efforts in a merging candidate, nor do I want to contribute to the current state of content forking. Skäpperöd (talk) 17:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Would titling the main article Prussia with a major section about Kingdom of Prussia (and presumably the other meanings) work? --Bermicourt (talk) 16:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, either we have no primary topic, then Prussia needs to direct to Prussia (disambiguation). Or we have a primary topic, then Prussia needs to direct to Kingdom of Prussia. I believe that "Kingdom of Prussia" is the primary topic, and back this by the traffic stats as well as common sense (If someone says "Prussian army", "Prussian virtues", "Prussian foo" without a qualifier, then one will think of the state of Prussia - if the duchy, province or region is meant, this is usually qualified by context). Skäpperöd (talk) 17:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Redirecting to Prussia (disambiguation) is possibly the best idea. --Kgfleischmann (talk) 07:28, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"If someone is looking for "Prussia", they usually mean the kingdom..." is the perfetc reason not to merge, damn any rule to the contrary. Being so, there's need to find/display that there's more to Prussia than the Kingdom of Prussia. In a nutshell. Regards, --G-41614 (talk) 05:57, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree having looked at all the articles in question. Prussia should be the overarching, top-level article covering the entire period from the Old Prussians through the Duchy of Prussia, Kingdom of Prussia, Free State of Prussia (1918-1933) to Free State of Prussia (1933-1935) and Prussian should redirect to Prussia (there are thousands of links to Prussia and hundreds to Prussian). It should have sections summarising the subordinate articles headed up by hatnotes e.g. a section summarising the Duchy of Prussia with a {{main article}} hatnote to the Duchy of Prussia. This will entail reducing the emphasis in the Prussia article on the Kingdom of Prussia and beefing up the other sections to make it more balanced. --Bermicourt (talk) 15:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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