Talk:Execution of the Báb

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Death Start‑class

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Neutrality

It appears that this has been nominated for NPOV review. I'd be happy to work on this article to address that, but if the Wikipedian who made that nomination could specify the NPOV issues that they see here, I'd appreciate it. Thanks Masarra 02:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't see a NPOV problem in this article, all the different POVs are represented, baha'i, western, polemical. -- Jeff3000 02:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not written very well, but I don't see an NPOV problem. Cuñado

- Talk 04:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I'm drafting a re-write, but I'll be out of town for a few days. I've gotten an intro and a section on the trial of the Bab almost done. My idea is to then have a synoptic account of the execution; a section on the sources from which this is derived; a brief section on the significance of the event in the Baha'i Faith; a section on controversies, briefly discussing but not quoting at length some of the polemical stuff; a section on the fate of the remains; a fuller list of references. If that structure is agreeable to people, then please feel free to start filling in the blanks. Masarra 04:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great to me. -- Jeff3000 13:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since the editor who added the NPOV tag has not stated why he believes there are NPOV issues on the page, I will be removing the NPOV tag. -- Jeff3000 02:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have added some references from the World Order article "The Bab: Accounts of His Martyrdom," especially an additional section quoting an anti-Baha'i Shi'ite cleric, whose account (based on his father's witnessing of the event) basically agrees with the Baha'i account. I've also added some caveats about whether sources are primary or not. I've fixed a few accents, cleaned up a bit of grammar, and made more neutral a few terms (such as changing the refernce to Ghulam Ahmad to a "leader" rather than a "figurehead," which could be negative). RHStockman 22:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statement Preceeding Execution

Regarding his statements immediately prior to the first execution attempt, William Sears has documented the following on page 172 of Release the Sun:

The Báb was thus engaged when the chief-attendant arrived. He insisted upon the Báb's immediate departure. The Báb turned and rebuked the chief-attendant severely. "Not until I have said to him all these things I wish to say," the Báb warned, "can any earthly power silence me. Though all the world be armed against Me, yet shall they be powerless to deter Me from fulfilling, to the last word, My intention."

I was wondering if there were further sources regarding this statement. Peter Deer (talk) 19:57, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maulana Muhammad Ali as a Source

Maulana Muhammad Ali's book is not an appropriate source. WP:V requires reliable sources from reliable publishers. Inclusion fails both criteria:

Maulana Muhammad Ali is an Ahmadi apologist rendering him an unreliable source.
The book is published, in the U.S. by an Ahmadi publishing house: Ahmadiyya Anjuman Isha'at Islam Lahore, Inc., effectively making it self-published.

The only wiggle room for self-published authors is in ¶2 of WP:SELFPUB which allows for inclusion if their "work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications". No other third-party uses him or his book as a reference. MARussellPESE (talk) 21:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Miller as a Source

W.M. Miller's book is not an appropriate source. WP:V requires reliable sources from reliable publishers. Inclusion fails both criteria:

William McElwee Miller is an evangelical Christian apologist rendering him an unreliable source.
The book is published by the William Carey Library effectively making it self-published.

The only wiggle room for self-published authors is in ¶2 of WP:SELFPUB which allows for inclusion if their "work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications". No other third-party uses him or his book as a reference. MARussellPESE (talk) 21:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mirza Kazem Beg's account

There's another account not mentioned here, by Mirza Kazem Beg, transmitted in French translation. I've posted a facsimile and English translation on my blog at http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2008/12/25/750-muskets/

“At a signal, a platoon from the Christian regiment advanced and fired. By an extraordinary chance, the musket balls struck only the cords with which the Bab was tied: they broke and he felt himself free. A clamour arose. The Bab, it is said, moved towards the people in an attempt to persuade them it was a miracle.”

For reasons I've stated there, this is inherently more plausible than accounts of a whole regiment doing the deed.