Talk:Clan of Xymox

New comments at the BOTTOM, please.

Untitled

Added new album Breaking Point - kilby6

Could someone list the names of the members in the band photo? --Eyrian 23:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• It's (left to right): Mojca, Mario, Denise, Ronny & Agnes I couldn't make it look nicely, maybe someone else can daleki 06:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

So now that the image has been removed for offending the Fair Use Police, how long until someone replaces it with a laughably shitty cameraphone pic they took at Wave Gotik Treffen? --Halloween jack 07:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please put up this official logo (as per the Band's Facebook page)? here: http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1933/192/87/111769160178/n111769160178_5630474_4996.jpg Thank you. Rawnnie (talk) 17:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Can someone do some heavy re-writing of this article? It's very disorganized and written like it's being narrated by an over-enthusiastic journalist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.237.7.95 (talk) 04:44, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Discography

I do not think an excessive list of all their discography is absolutely necessary; only a few related articles and a full link to their discography should be needed and/or included to replace the current one, which takes up the majority of the article already. I don't think that Wikipedia allows lists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.11.25 (talk) 08:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

• I trimmed the list considerably. Discographies are part of band articles--it would be nice, though, if they have some references. But this entire article consisted of fluff + lists, and has only one single moderately reliable reference. Drmies (talk) 01:18, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

The Anka Wolbert case

Who removed Anka Wolbert from this page? Amazing - this entry has been recently rewritten to remove all mention of co-founder/ songwriter/ vocalist Anka Wolbert. It now reads like a biography of Ronnie Moorings - as if he alone was the person behind the band. Every fan of Xymox knows this is not the case. Very bizarre. I wonder who it was that wanted to portray that false impression? And why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muso88 (talk • contribs) 16:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

someone keeps changing this page to erase or reduce the influence of pieter nooten and anka wolbert in the xymox history.

i am Pieter Nooten and can only agree with anka and paste her reply here again. Also, Dutch collecting agency BUMA STEMRA owns the paper work to prove our contributions.

To state the facts:

Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings started Xymox in 1983.

Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings wrote and self-released the EP "Subsequent Pleasures" in 1984.

Pieter Nooten joined the band and became the third songwriter in 1985.

Xymox signed to 4AD in 1985 (changing the band's name to Clan of Xymox), and released two albums, "Clan of Xymox" (1985) and "Medusa" (1986). All songs on these albums are jointly written by Anka Wolbert, Pieter Nooten and Ronny Moorings.

Under Polygram Clan of Xymox released two albums, "Twist of Shadows" (1989) and "Phoenix" (1991). All tracks on both albums are written by Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings, with contributions by Pieter Noorten. During this period Nooten teamed up with Michael Brook to record 'Sleeps with the fishes', also released on 4AD.

After "Phoenix", Anka Wolbert and Pieter Nooten left the band to pursue solo careers.

Anka Wolbert released "Cocoon Time" and Pieter Nooten released his album "Ourspace ", both on I-Rain Records, 2006.

Pieter Nooten released a second solo album in 2010, "Here is Why" (Rocket Girl). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nutville (talk • contribs) 11:03, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Message from Knowitallfortoday to Anka Wolbert, 05:21, 30 December 2010

please state your name as you seem to only want to put emphasis on aka and pieter and forget as much as possible of ronny for some mysterious reason. might it be you are or were part of the band ? I do have articles backing up my edits and your edits seem to be general , it is bland and unjust. Also you stand warned from being barred. State your relation with the band or your sources.

Reply from Anka Wolbert, 13:31, 30 December 2010

I am Anka Wolbert. I was a member of Clan of Xymox from 1983 to 1991.

Please note that Wikipedia requires you sign your comments or correspondence.

Please also note that warnings on Wikipedia must be levelled through the correct channels, and properly backed up with legitimate justification.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Anka_Wolbert

Anka Wolbert (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

To Knowitallfortoday: Regarding removal of page content

Please substantiate your reasons for deleting text on History: "Confirm timing of original members Wolbert and Nooten leaving Xymox:" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clan_of_Xymox&diff=404838810&oldid=404837855

• Well, without wanting to speak for Knowitall, it was basically unverified. Please provide reliable sources. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 21:20, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Who edited Anka out of this Wiki page?

This is so strange - someone has removed Anka to make it appear as if Ronny Moorings started Xymox. What's going on? Who is "Knowitallfortoday (talk | contribs)" and why do they not want Anka there? Surely there must be some rule against this in Wiki? Anyone know how to report it? Here are the strange revisions:

Revision as of 17:30, 19 June 2010 (edit) Luckas-bot (talk | contribs) m (robot Adding: uk:Clan of Xymox) ← Previous edit "In 1982 Anka Wolbert and Ronnie Moorings began making music in The Netherlands under the name Xymox, self-publishing the EP "Subsequent Pleasures" in 1983."

Revision as of 13:09, 20 June 2010 by Knowitallfortoday (talk | contribs) "Ronny Moorings began making music in The Netherlands under the name Xymox, self-publishing the EP "Subsequent Pleasures""Muso88 (talk • contribs) 16:44, 27 December 2010 (UTC) Muso88 (talk) 17:05, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the dispute of facts: Clarification by Anka Wolbert

It has come to my attention that someone is contiually editing this Wikipedia page to remove my name and delete information referring to my contributions to the band. (These changes can be repeatedly seen in the "View History" tab in the top menu of this Wiki page).

User Warning to Knowitallfortoday

WR: UW Introducing deliberate factual errors; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Knowitallfortoday Anka Wolbert (talk) 13:15, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

To state the facts:

Anka Wolbert (AKA Anke Wolbert) and Ronny Moorings started Xymox in 1983.

Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings wrote and self-released the EP "Subsequent Pleasures" in 1984.

Pieter Nooten joined the band and became the third songwriter in 1985.

Xymox signed to 4AD in 1985 (changing the band's name to Clan of Xymox), and released two albums, "Clan of Xymox" (1985) and "Medusa" (1986). All songs on these albums are jointly written by Anka Wolbert, Pieter Nooten and Ronny Moorings.

Under Polygram Clan of Xymox released two albums, "Twist of Shadows" (1989) and "Phoenix" (1991). All tracks on both albums are written by Anka Wolbert and Ronny Moorings, with contributions by Pieter Noorten. During this period Nooten teamed up with Michael Brook to record 'Sleeps with the fishes', also released on 4AD.

After "Phoenix", Anka Wolbert and Pieter Nooten left the band to pursue solo careers.

Anka Wolbert released "Cocoon Time" and Pieter Nooten released his album "Ourspace ", both on I-Rain Records, 2006.

Pieter Nooten released a second solo album in 2010, "Here is Why" (Rocket Girl).

Anka Wolbert (talk) 21:01, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

• Facts lost, facts are never what they seem to be, as the Talking Heads said: "Anka Wolbert (AKA Anke Wolbert) and Ronny Moorings started Xymox in 1983." is contradicted by this reliable source. I have no intention of getting in some argument about who, what, and when, but it seems to me that with half the band represented on the talk page there needs to be a reminder of how wikipedia works: with reliable sources. Drmies (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

• • And, of course, straight from the proverbial "horse's mouth" could not never be reliable. Sorry for the sarcasm -- I guess it would be good if the other half of the band were also here to make it unanimous (or else show that there is a real conflict needing external mediation). --Jared (talk) 18:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Just a reminder that such a horse would not in fact constitute a "reliable source" in this encyclopedia, because here, "reliable source" is what Wikipedia defines as a reliable source: Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Muso88 (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Date of formation of the band vs date of first release

According to the Xymox biography in the Dutch Music Encyclopedia, Clan Of Xymox was formed in 1981 by Ronny Moorings and Anke Wolbert. The EP Subsequent Pleasures was released in 1983. Hence the discrepancy between the dates in The great indie discography and the Dutch Music Encyclopedia. For the sake of clarity, I suggest the date of formation of the band is taken as 1981. Anka Wolbert (talk) 15:16, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

• But there is no discrepancy--in both cases, the band is claimed as having been founded in 1981. The real discrepancy (which could be one of omission) is that there's only two names in the Muziekencyclopedie, but I'm going with the published source here, since we do not know the editorial policy of the Muziek Centrum Nederland and their encyclopedia. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 16:47, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Citation for Xymox supporting Dead Can Dance on UK tour

According to the Xymox biography written Michael Sutton, reviewer for the All Music Guide, Xymox supported Dead Can Dance on their UK tour. Muso88 (talk) 14:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Citation for John Peel sessions

Xymox recorded two John Peel sessions according to the BBC website; on 4th June 1985 and 3rd November 1985. Muso88 (talk) 14:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

SPIN article and Moorings English

Knowitall, unfortunately what you have written is not what is written in the article. In SPIN magazine August 1989, Christian Logan Wright (CLW) writes : "Moorings gets lyrically obtuse because of his limited command of the English language" CLW also writes "Xymox has made heavy synth music, sung with Moorings's approximation of a Northern English accent."

The Clan of Xymox page says "it commented on Moorings' limited knowledge of English". Kowitall, you have changed this edit (more than three times, and without any explanation or discussion); once replacing "Moorings" with "Wolbert" (???), and twice to the mis-quote about Morrings' attempted Northern English accent.

Unfortunately your edit does not match what the journalist wrote.

Drmies, or some administrator, please can you advise the correct protocol here. It seems a pointless exercise to keep reversing edits regardless of what is written in the article. Muso88 (talk) 23:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

No other reviews suggest this and therefore you are letting a BIASED VIEW into play. The said article does mention the Northern English accent and being an American he might have felt offended , who knows. To say that you cannot sing SO right as rain instead of proper as right as rain is simply SICK . If you allow this then start editing any modern rock band , let alone RAP etc.for their use of the language or better start with the Cocteau Twins ..this goes too far. I am happy to send you the whole review , tell me where to post it ! talk) So take the said line out as you seem to really let twisted things into the "bio". This way you get rubbish. Look at other pages , not any has or needs as many footnotes as this one. Also when the footnote appears you conveniently erase them. Knowitallfortoday

Knowitall, best to use headings so we can follow. I continue below under the heading "SPIN article and Moorings English" Muso88 (talk) 23:44, 3 January 2011 (UTC) [edit]SPIN article and Moorings English

• Knowitall, unfortunately what you have written is not what is written in the article. In SPIN magazine August 1989, Christian Logan Wright (CLW) writes : "Moorings gets lyrically obtuse because of his limited command of the English language" CLW also writes "Xymox has made heavy synth music, sung with Moorings's approximation of a Northern English accent."

The Clan of Xymox page says "it commented on Moorings' limited knowledge of English". Kowitall, you have changed this edit (more than three times, and without any explanation or discussion on the discussion page); once replacing "Moorings" with "Wolbert" (???), and twice to the mis-quote about Morrings' attempted Northern English accent.

Unfortunately your edit does not match what the journalist wrote. Why does this review bother you so much? Moorings is not a native English speaker - nor were ABBA and lots of people commented on that; it was a well-known fact about them.

Drmies, or some administrator, please can you advise the correct protocol here. It seems a pointless exercise to keep reversing edits regardless of what is written in the article. Muso88 (talk) 23:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

• • Muso, please, let there be no derogatory comments on ABBA. Next thing you're telling me that you always hated the Dolly Dots. Unfortunately, I can't do much more here--I've tried to explain these matters a few times, and I've suggested what I think is the only way out: discussion on the talk page. If Knowitall continues with removing this stuff, at some point it's going to count as disruptive editing, and that will be soon--it's been three times now? Replacing Moorings with Wolbert, that's really vandalism, though I imagine it's more frustration than anything else.

Knowitall, this path of editing you're going down is unproductive. It runs counter to Wikipedia's guidelines and policies and only invites more editors to scrutinize your edits. It's your choice: you can help, and make the article better, but you'd have to do that by building consensus (on the article talk page) and by having reliable sources. Or, you can continue, and pretty soon someone might take action, because disruptive editing disrupts the project, and you might find yourself temporarily blocked, with no influence at all on what the article looks like. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 23:44, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

• • • Heaven forbid I was being derogatory about ABBA! I am sure I have all their albums. In fact, a lot of people found the coupling of imperfect English with Swedish accents very endearing. But whatever people's view of it all, that's simply how ABBA spoke. A fact is a fact; not a view, after all. Knowitall seems to be insulted on Moorings's behalf by the editor's comment. Probably best if Knowitall doesn't take it so personally - for all any of us know, Moorings might be perfectly happy with the way he speaks English. Muso88 (talk) 23:57, 3 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muso88 (talk • contribs)

back up posted on http://www.flickr.com/photos/57824173@N05/#photo5322067156 with enough articles to prove the opposite. Moorings was always the spokesman of the band as it seems. The slurring however of Wolbert on " Seventh Time " skin and shit" ( audible on record) and Nootens "Pudding In My Head" on Equal Ways ( audible on the records) you might take that with in the "article" as well ? In any case I will assist Moorings in this ridiculous attempt to slander him with a quote from one single reviewer. That would open the door to bash all bands here on Wiki, simply one statement cannot be the demeanor for the whole. Take the NEUTRAL SIDE here , again , this goes too far. [User:knowitallfortoday]] (User talk:knowitallfortodaytalk)

• You actually HAVE things that can pass as reliable sources. I wish you had come with this earlier. As for the accusation of "slander", that's neither here nor there, of course--dat slaat als een lul op een drumstel. Drmies (talk) 01:04, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

• • It's GREAT to see all those old articles, um - Terry? You must have been such a huge fan to file and keep all those articles over all those years! Ronny is going to be so thrilled you have decided to "assist" him. Here's hoping one day he does venture onto the Wiki Xymox page to see for himself. Muso88 (talk) 02:01, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

• • • Hi Knowitall. Uh-oh - some unwelcome news unfortunately. In one of the old newspaper articles you've referenced, the journalist Tom Lanham, in "Dutchman Takes Xymox to Head of Its Class" writes "In halted English and heavy Dutch accent, Moorings, 27, recounts his tale."

So it looks like wasn't the only journalist to notice Moorings' difficulties with English - must be quite a noticeable characteristic if they're all commenting on it. So, definitely a fact, not a "biased view" then, I think we can all agree. You've already put those references up so I'll just reference your source re the English problems, and I'll revert your edit.

Muso88 (talk) 02:35, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

And I will keep reverting yours Knowitallfortoday

• So, Knowitall states that he will simply delete this info and will not discuss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Knowitallfortoday&diff=405817907&oldid=405807612Muso88 (talk) 14:29, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

• • Knowitall, when I now click the link you originally provided ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/57824173@N05/#photo5322067156) which you originally referenced as a reliable source, I notice that now instead of the 6 articles posted on the Flickr page called "TerryKnowitall", the Flickr page now has only 5 articles. The article NOW NO LONGER THERE is the one I referenced in your original Flickr posting; by the journalist Tom Lanham: "Dutchman Takes Xymox to Head of Its Class", in which Tom Latham refers to Moorings' "halted English and heavy Dutch accent".

Knowitall, please could you explain how--and why-- the that article has now been removed from "TerryKnowitall's" Flickr page? (As luck would have it, I took a screen shot of the original Flickr page when you first referenced it, as I am am ardent collector of old Xymox reviews.) Muso88 (talk) 18:35, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Muso, a valid question, perhaps, but let's leave that be. Knowitall is blocked for a few days for socking and can't respond. Moreover, let's hope that the article will remain in the decent state it is in now and that at some point bygones will be bygones. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2011 (UTC)