Talk:Lucifer

The Islamic Point of View section

One more, for now, the section entitled 'Islamic point of view' has, it seems, nothing to do with Lucifer. There is no mention of Lucifer in the Quran, nor is any name in the book linked to Lucifer, even though the article lists the name Lucifer in brackets for really no reason that I can see. This section seems to me to be another floating section, having nothing to do with the topic. It's like putting into the article a section "Flashlights in Spain", because the word 'lights' was used, and then adding (Lucifer) after the word 'flashlight'. Can this section be removed in toto as well? Aleister Wilson (talk) 05:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Vulgate translation used almost exclusively in the article, pov question

St. Jerome wrote the Vulgate translation, the one and only translation of the bible which uses the word 'lucifer' in a negative sense (and even then it pertains to a Babalonian King and not to Satan). Yet this article quotes from Vulgate over and over again, and even tries to isolate Bible quotes within the article to a link to Vulgate and not to all translations of the passages. This has pov written all over it, turned it over, and written all over it again. Edits opening up the verses to all translations have been reversed again, to just Jerome's Vulgate. Lucifer is not Satan, it is a name for a planet, for God's sake, and to twist data in a couple of brief mentions in a couple of fiction books and one translation of one passage in the Bible has given the name strength through the very process of continuing this misinformation. Again, Wikipedia, as I understand it, is not about that, and this article may be one of the main examples of it. Should we maybe ask for mediation? Aleister Wilson (talk) 17:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm wrong here, King James also has the "O Lucifer" lament, which actually is just mocking the King who is playing at dictatorship (back to George W. Bush again. . .), telling him that he's going to be, ah, roughly indicted someday, and will not look good in the history books (W.?). There actually is nothing about Satan or the devil in the passage at all, just a dissing of the Babalonian King. IMHO, if St. Jerome had known that novelists and poets would use his mocking verse, twist it around to a different meaning, and for a long time label what he thought was just a pretty bright Star as the Devil, he probably would have corrected the user. In fact, in his day, many religious Christians carried the name Lucifer proudly, and St. Jerome was probably very familiar with the postive connotations of the name when he used it poetically to denounce one human being, who soon fell in shame, no, wait, I'm back to Bush again. Aleister Wilson (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Recent Rollback.

I removed a substantial amount of content added by User:24.21.90.170 accidentally when rolling back, but as it was unsourced and seemed irrelevant, I haven't replaced it only to remove it. Thanks. Claritas (talk) 20:13, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

"King of Babylon"

Isaiah 14:4 expressly applies the taunting naming as Morning Star to "the king of Babylon": "thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon (KJV); "you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon" (ESV); " ונשׂאת המשׁל הזה על־מלך בבל" (MT). Convincing evidence of scholarly consensus is required to make the Wikipedia article say that the reference was to a king of Assyria. Esoglou (talk) 14:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Insertion in lead

An editor insists on having in the lead the following curious sentence: "At the time the observers believed Venus to be a very unusual star in that it was the first to rise in the morning and then retreated back into the darkness when the Sun rose - which is exactly what Venus does and appears to be." "At the time" - at what time? "First to rise in the morning" - on any morning that Venus appears (it does not appear every morning), it is preceded by countless stars rising as they have not ceased to do all night. "Last to rise" would be more accurate, though still inaccurate. "Observers believed Venus to be a very unusual star" - not just believed: it is unusual in that, like Mercury but unlike the other stars (planets or true stars), it is visible only for a short time until outshone by the sun (when it appears as the Morning Star) or until it sets soon after sunset (when it appears as the Evening Star). The sentence itself follows up the statement about what observers once "believed" with a statement that the planet "does" what they believed and that it "appears to be" what they believed. The editor also undid another editor's removal of the repetitious wikilink of the word "Venus", already wikilinked in the previous line. Even if the sentence were accurate, such detail would not belong in the lead of an article about what "Lucifer" means in English, a language in which the word is practically never used of the Morning Star, and would have a place instead in the section Lucifer#Astronomical significance. Esoglou (talk) 07:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

This should not be added to the article without a reliable source making this assertion. __meco (talk) 10:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Lucifer and Freemasonry

In this time and age, Freemasons openly admit that their "Grand Creator of the Universe" is indeed Lucifer. It's all over some Internet Forums. But, of course, they don't say Lucifer is the devil, but Christ. They say that Lucifer is Jesus Christ. It is absolutely disgusting. Freemasons are also deep into Kabbalah, saying that Lucifer will bring Olam HaBah (the "world to come"). And yes, I can prove it with many links. Anon February 3, 2011 05:00 (UTC)