Talk:Soul

Development and composition of the soul.

I was wondering if there was an expert on this who could possibly write and post a section on how a soul develops from the joining of a spermatozoa and an ovum. If there is in fact such a thing as a human soul, then its stages of development from inception (It must have a beginning right?) should be included in this article. Perhaps a section on the composition, properties and characteristics of a soul should also be included. I've been told that the soul's destiny is what life is all about. These important issues should not be left out of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.25.218.167 (talk) 03:41, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Not my article, but it could be a case of lack of data here, for little can be measured and reported on, first hand, here, of perception and qualia of consciousness at that state. Though on a physical basis, if soul is a characteristic that permeates the body, it is mostly the mother's soul imparted through sustinance, and under the effects of the DNA of the father's cell. Perhaps some religious special texts describe the theological ideas written on the matter, but science will be void on this matter, most likely. The Christian Bible has a reference where Elizabeth's Baby John leapt in her womb at the approach of Mary with Jesus, indicating the presence of soul and or God with Mary at virtually conception. But that is the extent of that data source and detail, as you have requested, but addresses one of your questions, as to views of the moment the soul may exist. Likewise, from personal experience, soul order structure is related to body size and data absorbed. When I was a small child, human vision was grainy and poor response, and now is quite sharp as an adult, though I feel quite similar in my personal sense of self, thinking that far back how I felt compared to today, being only smarter in the english language and world's dangers and benefits. This may have to do with neural network resolution, as well as quantum entanglement qualia sense structure. But without systemic quantum measurement devices available, the balance between the two is indistinguishable and unmeasurable ... to tell what part is young neural nets, and what part is the soul. For the soul might be perfect and somewhat constant as my experience suggests, and the physical body is restraining senses while growing onto such a quantum entanglement structure soul, or vice versa for other's experience. (LoneRubberDragon) 75.82.144.206 (talk) 01:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Quantum Physcis Mutual Entanglement Permeation Soul

JOHN ARCHIBAL WHEELER, ROGER PENROSE, DAVID CHALMERS SOUL QUANTUM

There should be more detailed reference to John Archibald Wheeler's, Roger Penrose's, and David Chalmer's approaches of quantum spirit, in the "it from bit" concept vein. (LoneRubberDragon)

QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT

From quantum physics, there is a concept of entanglement that says, for all measurements (interactions), there is a portion of projective measurement reduction on each particle, as well as shared entanglement residue in both particle measurements. The reductionist measurement aspect is independent for each particle. The entanglement measurement aspect is mutually dependent on particles such that measuring one particle affects the other particle instantaneously, or infinitely faster than light. (LoneRubberDragon)

MUTUAL ENTANGLEMENT PERMEATION IN BODY

In the human body, there is a mass cobweb of mutual wavefunction entanglements that permeates the body, producing an entanglement system functionality throughout the body. And while behavior and sense are based on the purely material network of matter and neural systems, that all remain point reductionist independent due to body temperature inter-particle measurements, we also see that there is a holistic system in that cobweb of permeating mutual entanglements that lies parallel or supervenient to the reductionist point matter. (LoneRubberDragon)

OBSERVE SPATIAL AND SIMULTANEOUS AND POLARIZED MEASUREMENTS

What does this produce, observeably? For human vision, it produces a simultaneous and spatial field of vision, with light and color that is simultaneously or holistically sensed. This is quite different from a piece of passive receptive film in a double slit interference experiment that records independent spots for photons. Even a digital camera would only sense photons on independent pixel detectors. But, to reiterate, the human eye-brain system senses the world in a spatial and simultaneous holistic field. Why is it simultaneous? That part is easy, because entanglement alterations operates infinitely faster than light, and a cobweb of mutual entangled particle characteristics through the body and mind-matter, when measured here or there by sense data, affects the entire cobweb in some way all at once, instantaneously. Why is it spatial and colored, for human vision, for example? That is more difficult. Likely, in the point reductionist material properties of the mind substrate, the waves of electrochemical sense pulses produce coherencies in the mutually entangled particles through the body, producing polarizations and distributions on the entanglements causing human vision to appear spatial and colored, in the example qualia of human vision. However, the not communication / no communication theorem poses problems as to why anything coherent is observed at all, holistically, in human vision because it says no coherent information is conveyed between two entangled particle wavefunctions, that is unless the same large statistical numbers of coherently entangled particle wavefunction properties also produces the sense of color and space and lightness of the human vision example, despite the point quantum not communication theorem, with coherent information sent by the numbers of entangled particles. Without instantaneous quantum entanglement effects, it is absolutely puzzling how to explain the "colour", simultenaity, and spatiality of senses like sight and sound and touch, much less taste, scent, thoughts, and emotion. For what mechanism related to measurement and spatiality and instantaneousness is there to explain that, except Quantum Entanglement with some form of Coherent Information Conveyed infinitely faster than light in an entire body system. Reductionist matter theory cannot convey a system spense, because each point of matter is considered independent, and then what is there to observe the WHOLE of that, if a Homunculus does not exist in some form throughout the body? Only Holist System Theories can do this. Lastly, this definition of soul based on mutual quantum entanglement permeating the body is not a material definition of a soul, but an immaterial quantum probability state of matter entanglement, as Hindu and other non material theories of soul propose. As such, the soul, this way, is immaterial, and yet dependent on a material substrate to exist, for without any matter, there is nothing for a soul to exist upon, because quantum enatanglement systems require matter to have the property of entanglement. And this definition of soul is massless, as it is made of entanglement state information of a system of measurement, assuming that information contains no mass, or virtually zero mass, in a taylor series incomplete definition of mass based on configuration entropy and entanglement configuration entropy. Thus, making soul immaterial, instantaneous outside of space and time, (practically) massless, and holistic as a system, forming the sense of space and colour and simultenaity of measurement, as quantum physics is built on measurement and its residue of mutual particle quantum entanglement. (LoneRubberDragon)

MIND SOUL DUALITY REGARDING STATE AS ELECTROMAGNETISM VERSUS ELECTRON-PROTON DUALITY NATURE IN CATEGORY

With regards to Descartes versus Swinburne, we have an interesting situation. If one argues there is a categorical error, in calling the material mind base a separate medium from the sensed perception of one's soul, we run into issues. For if one says that material mind and perception soul are one substance, then electrons-protons and the electromagnetic field are one substance in category, also. BUT ... if electrons-protons and electromagnetism are considered two different categories of matter state, then point reductionist independent mind-matter and the holistic cobweb system of mutual particle entanglement systemic perception soul are two different states of matter. One substance being the substrate of reductionist state of point matter in the body-mind materials, and the other substance being the mutual states of residual entanglements that permeates the quantum quality of the whole holistic body. In this case, soul is reliant upon matter to exist, to support quantum entanglement, but the mutual quantum entanglement remains a holistic sense of quantum state on systemic particles quantum state that is "one with everything" or "one with each other mutually", which is separate from the independent reductionist quantum state that is the particle probability of each particle as an independent reductionist unit. (LoneRubberDragon) 75.82.144.206 (talk) 10:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_measurement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_from_bit#Wheeler.27s_.22it_from_bit.22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_penrose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holarchy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holon_(philosophy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghost_in_the_Machine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_R._Hofstadter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach

I will try to answer the person who asked the question. How do we know souls exist? Answer: given that you believe in the Bible it says in John 20:22 that Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit onto his disciples. meaning that God has breathed our eternal souls onto us. The Soul is described as Gods breath in the Bible. Given that you believe in God and that the New Testament grants all people living after the death of Jesus eternal life based on the Judgement the Holy Spirit is in fact your soul. We know souls exist because God the Father states that they do in the Book of Genesis described as Gods breath and Jesus also states that they do. You have to believe and belief comes from the understanding of the Bible which is Gods Word. Hope is what we do have and it is what all of us can truly believe in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godar75 (talk • contribs) 02:11, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, HOW did this Jesus person force an additional layer of "spirit" into a human body that already contained a Quantum Physics Mutual Entanglement? Can you think that far, in physics, and the systems protocol, assuming your Jesus fellow is not ruled by chaos, without rules or logic or laws, with Jesus being ultimately lawless, in that case. And how can we know that, for it is only a belief in some ill defined Hole Spirit, because the physics of measuring even a systemic quantum mutual entanglement function for a human, proposed here, is so subtle, that it cannot be measured, as physics so far has failed to prove to complete disproof of even the human spirit (sans God), or else would be so weak, that the observing of spirit would alter spirit? And how do you know that it isn't an Allah monolith type rock processor that endows humans, with that Jesus fellow a mere imposter, or mere prophet with drug based resuscitation, or a double Jesus playing Jesus, like Saddam Hussein had multiple Husseins running around and fooling everyone? For to select only this Jesus fellow, is to Know that Mohammed and Allah are Certifyable Infidels, as well as that Buddha fellow. What? You pick a verse in physics, or The Bible, or The Koran, or Buddhist Tripitakas, and you can pick your own reality of ultimate God and definition of spirit, from the Hindu smorgasborg of available Gods? In short, your response was too far a ramblingly incoherent Biblical Research response, with a superficiality that I hope you might be able to flesh out more fully in a systems response, as I do not understand a thing that you are saying in your response ... and I can read computer code, several languages, and systems theory. 76.167.43.88 (talk) 06:17, 17 March 2011 (UTC)