Talk:Hummer

I'm all for keeping the article non-POV, but now there's nothing written to even suggest that there's anti-Hummer sentiment to begin with. Keeping all mentions of criticism out of the mix isn't objective writing; it's ignoring the elephant in the living room. And whether or not criticism sites like FUH2 are "juvenile" is very much up to the reader, isn't it?

Buddy-Rey 01:54, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Buddy-Rey

If you tried just a little bit harder you might have made this article ironic. As it is it is grotesquely POV.

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Agreed that this page is horribly POV and technically inaccurate.

I don't understand the whole rant about how "inefficient" the engine is. The engines in Hummers are just as efficient as those in smaller cars, it's just there is more weight to be driven. It's not like the fuel injection is haphazardly leaking gasoline on the highway and better engineering would cause a magical leap in fuel efficiency.

As it stands, http://trucks.about.com/cs/suvreviews/a/hummer_fuel04.htm shows that the 2004 Hummer H1 with a diesel V-8 averages about 16 MPG and the H2 with a gasoline engine is closer to 9.6 MPG.

--Jkonrath 20:12, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Wikipedia's accuracy will be suspect if people don't post facts here rather than putting POV's in. Demonstrating that there is controversy is fine, but stuff in Wiki should be facts, or people won't use it.

Beastmaster March 29, 2005 03:10 (UTC)

On a side note. I see no proof that President George W. Bush (#43) owns a Hummer. I see a lot of rumor mills floating around on the net, but no pictures or anything of the sort. If there's no proof of this backing it up soon, someone needs to purge thatportion of the Wiki.

--Beastmaster March 29, 2005 03:24 (UTC)

Ok.. The page seems Acceptable after Sfoskett's last edit. It seems balanced now as far as bias goes. Thanks!

--J0llyR0ger 18:26, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Fixed some minor spelling errors. Also changed the "coming soon" for the H3. It's starting to appear at dealers now.

--Beastmaster May 10, 2005 04:14 (UTC)

I reverted the z->s in advertizing - it's about as American as a vehicle can get, and should use US spelling in the article. --SFoskett 17:43, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

POV

I have edited the page a great deal. I feel that we have to mention the criticism, but I have tried to make it fair. Most Hummer-related criticism also applies to lots of other vehicles. But Hummer, being a one-trick pony, is the focus of such criticism. I have tried to say that in the article. Thoughts? --SFoskett 14:23, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

Edit war

We appear to be having an edit war here. I would like to address the edits:

1. I feel that including a sentence on biodiesel is not called for. I know of no Hummers running on biodiesel, and it's not really Hummer-specific. ANY Diesel engine can run on the stuff. Therefore, it's irrelevant.
2. We should include negative links as well as positive ones. FUH2 is actually quite informative, if POV. Flipoffahummer is less so.
3. Why single out certain vehicles in certain places?

Please discuss these issues here before reverting the article again. --SFoskett 21:11, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

Not to sound wierd, but how is FUH2 informative? In some places, doing that can get you arrested. --Beastmaster April 2, 2005 00:06 (UTC)

I meant that the points raised on the main page are interesting, not that the photos are... --SFoskett 14:32, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

Ok.. Hopefully the Edit WAr is over. THe article seems generally accurate, and is informational. --J0llyR0ger 18:27, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RE:BioDiesel - Actually, many Hummers run on Biodiesel. I run B100 in my 97.5 H1. :) The US Military will use 6 million gallons of Biodiesel in 2005, some of which will go into HMMWV's. --Beastmaster 21:54, 12 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Non-informational Criticism and Unfounded Claims

Criticism about the Hummer lends no informational value whatsoever to this article. Saying that its a "fact" that most Hummer owners don't take their vehicles offroad and is "especially true of the H2" is unfounded and irresponsible writing. The links to juvenile sites like fuh2.com make this look more like a ranting op-ed than an encyclopedia article. As such this erodes Wikipedia's credibility. Anyone so obviously anti-Hummer does not need Wikipedia's help in finding such sites.

Hopefully I didn't just start another edit war. I thought the "evaluation" section read like somebody made some breathless complaints about the Hummer's impracticality, and then somebody else crudely inserted various counter-arguments to restore NPOV. I rewrote the section, removing the litany of other impractical cars and the notice that fewer Hummers are built (which suggested if their faults are somehow mitigated). I also more explicitely defined the "impractical" charge. At any rate, all this is basically a reprise of the points made in the SUV article. Tafinucane 22:17, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I've got no problem with these edits. The things you removed were a toned-down version of a defense posted previously. I would not have included them either, but wanted to make sure all viewpoints were not suppressed. --SFoskett 22:35, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Exclamation Mark

It should also be noted that other than military units, only around 10,000 total civilian Hummer H1s have been produced!

Don't see the point of the "!", so I changed it to a "."

please add pollution information

anybody able to dig up (objective and factual) information on how much pollution hummers produce? please add a paragraph - thanks.

No more or less than similar oversized SUV's, such as the Suburban. This article has already been flayed by edit wars between detractors and apologists--and the information you seek creates a bias if it is applied only to the Hummer. I think a better idea would be to create a vehicle pollution article. And then make the Hummer article a redirect to vehicle pollution :) Tafinucane 20:51, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

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Trivia: Hummer is Lobster in Swedish :) (http://www.vattenkikaren.gu.se/fakta/arter/crustace/decapoda/homagamm/homaga.gif) ---

Modification of where they are made Adding clarification as to who really makes the Hummer line of vehicles and where.

H1 - made by AM General. Dedicated factory and plant for H1's in Indiana

H2 - made by AM General under contract with GM. Dedicated factory and plant in Indiana

H3 - made by General Motors in their Shreveport, LA plant. The same plant puts out the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon lines.

--Beastmaster 03:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Apparently, 'hummer' is also a nickname for hummingbirds, as well as the oral sex term. Can we put up a disambiguation page? I'm sure there are more slang terms called 'hummer' as well. Identity0 07:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Do we really need one, or will the simple addition of "Hummingbird" do, like the current page is modded to now? --Beastmaster 02:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

mpg or miles per gallon

To clear up mpgs', added them Miles_per_gallon links in 'Evaluation', so that it would be clear what mpg means to non-Uessians. -Mardus 10:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

History

I understand Schwarzenegger was the first one to buy one because he saw the military version while filming "Kindergarten Cop" and had GM make one for him. Is this true?

Answer: Rumor mill has a wide variety of variants to the story.

Variant 1: Arnold asked AMG to build him a one off version with a GM Gas V-8 (Corvette Engine at that time).

Variant 2: Arnold lobbied AMG to build him a Humvee just like what the Military uses.

Reality (From AM General employees): Arnold did lobby to AMG to buy some Humvees. He lobbied pretty hard after CNN and other media outlets broadcast pictures of them during Desert Storm.

He actually was successful - to a point. Arnold received two Humvee's under a specialized "lease" basis, mainly because he is the owner of other military hardware, including an M47 tank stationed at the Motts Military Museum in Columbus, Ohio. He received one Slantback in 686 Tan CARC, and a hardtop variant in semi-gloss tan. Both were shipped to Arnold in 1991.

Then, Arnold got 1992 Limited Edition numbers 0001 and 0002. Ironically, Coca Cola really received the first 15 civilian Hummers off the factory floor. Arnold's trucks were later in the production run. One of his Limited Edition trucks was auctioned off in 2000 for $140k. Marc Andreeson of Netscape won the truck.

Ironically, because of California DMV laws, he cannot legally register his first two Humvee's. AM General (in a fit of wierdness) has sent letters asking DMV's across the US not to register and give plates to military M998 variants. Because of that, his Humvee's are registered out of state - I believe in Indiana or Ohio.

--Beastmaster 06:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Discussion about the Evaluation section

Quote: "As fuel prices have risen, detractors have also singled out the Hummer as an egregious waster of resources—a charge based largely on the Hummer's unnecessary fuel consumption and size."

Unnecessary fuel consumption and size? Isn't that a bit odd? Who determines that it's "unnecessary"? If I get no objections, I'm going to rewrite it to say:

"As fuel prices has risen, detractors have also singled out the Hummer as an egregrious waste of resources - a charge based mostly on what is perceived to be the Hummer's fuel consumption and size".

--Beastmaster 06:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Hummer versus Lambo

Someone changed the history to reflect that the original HMMWV was based on the Lamborghini "Lambo" prototype. It wasn't. The original HMMWV competition in 1979 had three competitors: AM General, with their design that eventually became the HMMWV; Chrysler Defense, with a vehicle based on the Saluki; and Teledyne, with a vehicle based on the Cheetah, which was based on the LM002 Lambo.

For a better rundown of all of this, see http://www.off-road.com/hummer/general/hmmwv.html

--Jkonrath 16:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)