Talk:Macaronic language

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Would this be better located at macaronic verse? (I just wrote it here because there was demand for it from elsewhere.) Also, there's some stuff under macaroni that needs to be reconciled with this. Doops 03:41, 13 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Finnegans Wake

Hi, I'm Pedro Felipe from Wikipedia in Spanish. I'm interested in translating this article, and I have a question. Does Finnegans' Wake is a macaronic text? If yes, I think you should say it's the uttermost important example. (I'm afraid I have not the level for writing that information in English). Saludo para todos. Pedro Felipe--200.118.220.229 (talk) 18:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Single-word macaronic terms?

I've heard one-word terms such as "Pentium®" or "polysomnograph" described as macaronic, since they are pieced together from elements of two languages. I came to this article hoping to find a list of such terms. Having such a list might [a] be cool and [b] help relieve any sense of teetering on the boundary line between a dictionary article and an encyclopedia article. DSatz 17:33, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'm unable (^^) to write such a list now, but I heard that these words also could be called hybrids, at least words such as "television"...

Etymology?

I'd like to see some etymology behind the word "macaronic" -- is it the same word as the pasta, or does it have a different origin? Zrajm Wed Feb 22 09:28:11 CET 2006

It has for sure the same root, I mean it's stright derived form "maccheroni" the tubular type of pasta, which is the most common and cheap and popular and simple. In Italian "maccheronico" simply means "a simplyfied thing" Clutcher

In Italian "maccheronico" does NOT mean "a simplyfied thing" (and "maccheroni" is not "the most common and cheap and popular and simple" type of pasta: "spaghetti" are definitely more common, and the price is usually the same for all types...). The word "macaronic" was first used in 1517 by the Italian writer Teofilo Folengo (1491-1544), and since then it is used to denote a language which is deformed and filled with errors by a non-native speaker, due to contamination with his native language ("maccheronico" is instead not used for multilingual mixtures). Although the corrupted Latin used by writers of the XVI century such as Folengo was an intentional parody, "maccheronico" is nowadays most often used to denote unintentional (but systematic and funny) corruption of a foreign language.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teofilo_Folengo or, for more detailed information, http://www.italica.rai.it/rinascimento/cento_opere/folengo_baldus.htm (in Italian).

[guido.magnano@unito.it] September 24, 2006

Agreed. In Portuguese usage the word "macarrônico" (derived from "macarrão", maccheroni) is an adjective used usually to describe unintentional corruption of a foreign language (usage example: "ele tentava se comunicar num inglês macarrônico"/"he tried to communicate with a macaronic English") -- but not specifically mixture of two or more languages. I always considered the term a sort of slang though; I didn't know it had a well-defined meaning. Still not sure if it has in Portuguese. --LodeRunner (talk) 03:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it perhaps related to the 18th century use--slang for foppishness--famously exemplified in the song Yankee Doodle? Nathan McKnight -- Aelffin (talk) 14:45, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bilingual?

What's the difference between a macaronic and a bilingual song? I would have always termed Siúil a Rúin as bilingual but macaronic sounds like a nice new word ;-) El Gringo 04:41, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My gut would be that "Siúil a Rúin" borders on being a macaronic, but doesn't do quite as much code switching as a proper macaronic. If I remember right, it has English verses and a Gaelic refrain, right? Whereas I tend to think of a macaronic as switching within a single grammatical construct. I'd be interested in hearing from others on this; I'm not at all sure there is a sharp line. -- Jmabel | Talk 16:56, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can't remember the last time I've personally heard O Canada sung in a single language. Bilingual/macronic (?) renditions are enormously common, but I won't add it to the article (or a link to this article on the anthem's) until there's a clearer consensus here... Samaritan 04:55, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More Examples of Macronic Verse

The Handbook for Latin Clubs has some interesting macronic verse, in the sense of mixing at the vocabulary and grammatical levels, including a piece that it says "The Journal of Education commends this ingenious poem, written in seven languages— English, French, German, Greek, Latin, Spanish, and Italian— as one of the best specimens of Macaronic verse in existence, and worthy of preservation by all collectors."--Prosfilaes 18:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cut an ad

I cut the following:

Historia domini Quijoti Manchegui Traducta in latinem macarronicum per Ignatium Calvum cura misae et ollae, a macaronic version of Don Quixote.

The topic might be relevant, but the linked page is just an ad for the book, and gives no examples of its macaronics. It is not a useful link. If someone wants to add mention of the book, and give its publication info & ISBN, fine, but there is no reason to link this vacuous commercial page. - Jmabel | Talk 04:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Spanglish macaronic?

Is Spanglish speech or writing considered macaronic? It would seem so, given the definition in the article here, but there's no mention of the Spanish/English mixture. +ILike2BeAnonymous 01:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To be added to the article as soon as I find the time...

Tisi Degli Odassi

Teofilo Folengo, dissolute Benedictine monk Baldus "Le maccheronee" Description of macaronic as literary equivalent of the Italian dish - crude mixture of flour, butter and cheese

Polemo-Middinia inter Vitarvam et Nebernam 1684, William Drummond

Charles G. Leland, Hans Breitmann´s Ballads, 1884 inc. "To a friend studying German"

See also macaronic limericks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antoinecassar (talk • contribs) 20:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BC and AD

Is this an example? Dating using English Before Christ and Latin Anno Domini. Nitpyck (talk) 20:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Europanto

Isn't Europanto in fact a multilingual macaronic? ... said: Rursus (mb_ork³) 08:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Macaroni Combat

This being the war-film equivalent of a Spaghetti Western, which typically features Italian and non-Italian actors, generally over-acting in atrociously-dubbed and para-histrionic war genre operas, I can't entirely shake the suspicion that this particular pasta was chosen because of its dual-language associations. Nuttyskin (talk) 15:58, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Macaronic Cityspeak

Although not extensively used in the movie Bladerunner(1983) , cityspeak could be also termed a Macaronic language , it is however not applied in a comical sense. It was considered to be what people would evolve their communication in when left undereducated and as part of a defense mechanism against oppression by law enforcement and people higher up the ladder.17:52, 21 june 2010 (UTC +1) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.198.131.30 (talk)

in music

Hmmm, is any song that mixes 2 or more languages "macaronic"? That's thousands upon thousands of songs from all countries. The most common is the mix of the national or local language with English. Most French pseudo "artists" can't seem to write a song fully in French (which helps them hide their poor knowledge of their native language), but the process is well-used by some, notably by Mylène Farmer. From Japan I can think of many songs by X-Japan using the same process (Tears balances both languages, Forever love has a chorus in English, their last performed song Endless rain has a few lines in Japanese), I could name several Russian groups using it: Сплин notably shows sarcasm about this trend in Англо-Русский Словарь (English-Russian dictionary) which uses 8 English words. The list of bilingual songs using English is literally endless. Concerning bilingual songs not using English in Europe, I can think of Un premier matin (a chorus line in German, the rest in French) by Killerpilze, the French version of Ich kann auch ohne dich). I know there are some Ukrainian-Russian songs and it wouldn't take much effort to find Tatar-Russian, Uzbek-Russian etc. All I'm sayin' is: if all bilingual songs are macaronic, there should be a line about the fact that it's pretty damn common. If they're not, there should be a line explaining why. --2.37.41.63 (talk) 11:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]