User talk:Paul Moss

International Artist attained

memo to wikipedians, Paul Moss - artist, has been selected for exhibition at the prestigous ISEA event in Istanbul for September-October 2011.

ref Uncontainable {Second nature}

"Paul Moss is a ‘New Media’ artist, specialising in astro-photography and astro-video, for entertainment, illustrative purposes, and art gallery installations, and has been published in newspaper and magazine articles, CD covers, posters, calendar’s/almanac’s, including the NZ award winning book, ‘Astronomy Aotearoa’. Paul organises events with telescopes on the street, live music performances, runs camera crews for documentaries and live video screens at major music and cultural festivals, and performs as vj, dj and dubmaster moza. Paul was awarded a global gold medal for ‘Most Outstanding Individual’ for record breaking astronomy events IYA2009." "Paul is StarPeace Ambassador for New Zealand and National Organiser for Sidewalk Astronomers for New Zealand. He runs Astronomy Aotearoa and Sharing Space astronomy groups, and is a founding member of both Levin Stargazers and KiwiSpace. He has been interviewed about art and astronomy by National Television, Radio, and Newspapers, and is currently displayed in an audio-visual at Carter Observatory" "Paul has exhibited at major galleries across New Zealand and is selected for exhibition in Istanbul." "Paul is an international speaker at major conferences across Australia, Fiji and New Zealand." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.98.132.175 (talk) 13:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

The curious wikipedia experience is finally researched and validated

Here are some questions we’re thinking about:

Should new editors be encouraged to share more about themselves on their userpagesItalic text, so that good-faith people can be identified more easily and given support and encouragement? Should we build more automated mechanisms for editors to express appreciation for each other? Should we build automated tools for connecting new editors with experienced mentors? Do we need better tutorials? Should there be improved semi-public draft spaces, like on the Russian Wikipedia, to give new articles a chance to incubate rather than being deleted?Italic text What else should we do?

I rest my case.

changed my mind.

"We now have some hard numbers of contributors leaving. Why do the editors leave? 38% of editors who left point to unpleasant atmosphere and "some other editors" as to the reasons they left; that number goes up to 61% for editors with 10+ edits a month. I discussed the theory of that above: #Why good users leave the project, or why civility is the key policy (and linked essays).

If we don't improve the atmosphere around this project, and make it more welcoming and conductive to editors sticking around, this project, at best, will never reach its goal ("sum total of human knowledge"), and at worst, will eventually stagnate and start deteriorating."

""True believers" have a lot of bad faith: since they are obviously "right", they believe their opponents are "wrong". They will often discuss and criticize other editors, in more or less elaborate fashion, creating wiki battlegrounds. They will not shrink and will often start dispute resolution procedures, since they believe they are "right";

"Most anonymous editors simply lack the moral courage required to link their real persona to their POVs, and worse - emboldened by being anonymous, they write things - in articles and in discussions - that they wouldn't have written if this could be traced to their real person. Anonymity allows others (including most "true believers" or pure and simple trolls) to hide under a nickname, while launching uncivil attacks against others - including non-anonymous users"

"...- have become masters of wikipolitics, able to turn our own weapons against ourselves, and damage this project"

"Editors who are being disruptive by playing wikipolitics, harassing content creators and so on, should be blocked. They are parasites that threatens to strangle us.

Unfortunately, the above principles are increasingly turned on their heads. Good content creators leave, disruptive editors remain, and career wikipoliticans are born and grow entrenched in power."

"Established wikipoliticians, commonly members of one or more cabals, can reliably and consistently count on mutual defence. Newcomers and loners will not have such defense and thus will often have to fight their battles alone (with predictable result of being seen as "against the consensus").

In game theory sense, solving wikiconflicts through reason and good faith is an unstable strategy on Wikipedia because every single participant can play dirty (wikilawyer) instead, and thus derive an advantage over those who don't know much about wikipolitics."

love it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IAR

reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus/Morsels_of_wikiwisdom#On_the_distressing_trend_of_editors_leaving_Wikipedia

International Exhibition

I've recently been selected to exhibit in an international event of reasonable significance. watch this space.mozasaur (talk) 14:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Another thought, from wikipedia itself

"Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a general hosting service, so your user page is not a personal website. Your user page is about you as a Wikipedian, and pages in your user space should be used as part of your efforts to contribute to the project." perhaps the haters can read that and stick to the facts, and how they relate to wikipedia, or just slip away quietly and be happy...121.73.179.212 (talk) 06:07, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Thought for the day/month/year/decade (you choose)

[[1]]

SPAM

Paul.

Anyone who has witnessed you laziness and complete lack of skill or effort in anything other than manipulating some poor person in to supporting you while you laze away your days will know what I mean.

Lots of people are in to astronomy.

Your photos are really nice.

If you look past the html that traveled forward through time from 1998 then some of .. no most of the images on your web pages are really really good.

This is not tall poppy syndrome. Your not a tall poppy.

You are a lazy and stupid idiot who brags about things like building something like an amplifier 20 odd years ago and having a few seconds of air time on radio New Zealand.

You are a piece of work a parasite and not worth much more bother than the occasional edit of this wikipedia page.

Paul, I just was about to close this page, when I glanced this little passage from the Paul Moss user page.

Its Gold !

"SEPTEMBER 2009. The 'Horowhenua Chronicle' put my image on the front page of the newspaper, about 30% of the page, and an article about us for about 50% of the page. circulation 2661 readership 6000.[4]" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.56.247.143 (talk) 13:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Reality check

whatever, I have love and peace in my life in boundless amounts, there is meaningful life outside of this space. Your life doesnt appear to have changed to having much meaning it. look in a mirror, its a good thing to do from time to time. giving and helping are positive and hate mail is negative. simple. wikipedia oscillates wildly between the two, but actually who cares much.. the negative people get heaps of stuff to do to keep them happy because the positive people keep giving more than is needed to maintain the cycle. I'm a positive giver, I dont mind much what you do in your spaces, I don't visit them often enough and they are of insufficient value to bother. But life in other spaces is rich and rewarding, and true, and disciplined. not really values that you appreciate but it really doesnt nmatter in the scheme of things..mozasaur (talk) 10:15, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

more reality.. I got a few hundred positive messages of best wishes on the day that the above was written, on another site, and I answered each personally. The thing that strikes me is the hugely disparate information provided here; someones decade old pov vs truth, they are poles apart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.173.194 (talk) 12:23, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

More spam

"interesting. you type like someone with aphasia would speak. ask your doctor to have a look at whether you have damage to the Broca or Wernicke areas (if you do, it sounds like the latter). " source: Usman Makhdoom December 12 at 11:02pm Report

Tall Poppies

good to see that the tall poppy syndrome is alive and well across the globe. lol. Hate mail is one way of dealing with the stuff that you dont like but pretty ineffectual, especially so when it comes in clusters and becomes almost routine, and is a clear lie to the verifiable reality. But anyway everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if the way they express it is less than satisfactory or even illegal. Ive set up yet another page called Paul Moss where you can poke sticks at, if that really is the modus operandi that gets you off. you poor things. Maybe one day it might occur to you that your energy would be bette rdirected at fixing something, giving something, helping less capable people and/or animals to have a better life, or something. even simply showing people the moons of Jupiter or the craters on our moon, would be so MUCH MORE REWARDING to you, than emanating your negativity all over the web. Killing two birds with one stone, as opposed to your current practice of thinking that youre cutting down the flowers as they grow and blossom... wierd and illogical to waste your energy and time on that stuff. But then i suppose that you dont know what you dont know, so why would you try something different that might actually create more satisfaction, more happiness, more warm fuzzies for yourselves, than your present strategies? So anyway, my thesis is that many of you that have behaved negatively could benefit from a change in behaviour, it is in fact up to you to bring about your own happiness, and to realise that there is more happiness generated by supporting good things than ripping them down.

Allegations vs Objective Reality

Oh Paul, its really not a case of people mixing up Paul Mosses its you. I do not personally know any of the other people who you have little squabbles with on the internet but I imagine there will be many as you just a a horrible person.

You have stolen from my family and I remember it.

10 years is not such a long ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.11.2 (talk) 13:19, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

10 years is nothing in the scheme of things. As usual with these things there is so much more to the truth. I suppose I could drag out some reality checks but what would it achieve. So yes there are 'SKELETONS in our closets' but some of them are more bizarre than others, and this one is particularly malformed and suffering from lack of balance. It is slightly surprising how humans can simply forget the large sums of money loaned to them, and not paid back, and yet supposedly 'remember' the misunderstandings and misinterpretations that they placed on agreements at the time. And then the lender is the faulty one. In the end its still me that is massively worse off, but I dont expect the attitude to change, especially when the 'brains' concerned are so emo, and so badly misdirected. Sad and pathetic but thats how some of us are. It's surprising how it took two years for me to pay off the money i borrowed and loaned you to get you out of trouble, and yet I'm the one in the wrong. Well the records still exist as the tax laws required them to be for 10 years. It might be much more ueful to you to consider why you might have twisted your reality to give yourself something emo to hold on to for a decade, that would be a very productive outcome from this series of events. mozasaur (talk) 16:20, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

This is clearly an inappropriate space to discuss such matters, but as there is no other agreed to, here we are. I have much more to say, when i get time and inclination to fill in the objective details, that are completely at odds with the alleged belief.mozasaur (talk) 02:49, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics!

Paul Moss is a con artist and the people he has stolen from remember this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.56.247.143 (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

sigh. if that had any truth in it at all the editor would front up with a name and contact details. I am beginning to get used to the hate mail and hating behaviour. it says a lot about the society we live in. I also know of some other people with the same name as me, and I get their hate mail too!! mistaken identities are more common these days. wisdom says that people often speak about stuff that they do themselves, that's why they think of the subjects, and this form of hate is conning the naive and stealing of respect of good people... I say put your money where your mouth is, and front up with honesty and 'believability', ie show some credibilty with identification and track record..

and just for interest, when i study the log, this 'person' (moron) is wierd, here is a comment from below;

QUESTION: "Hi Paul, Why do you call your little club sidewalk astronomers ? I am from New Zealand and this is the first time that I have seen the term Sidewalk used as in New Zealand we tend to say Footpath ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewalk#Other_Countries .

Answer. Sidewalk Astronomers is a Global Organisation based in USA and started by John Dobson decades ago. I am the Regional (Oceania) and National (NZ) Organiser for this international organisation, an affiliation of clubs, societies, organisations, groups. In fact, here in NZ, its not my club, its not even a club, it's a loose association of like minded individuals that place giving their time and resource (telescopes) to the community above selfishly spending it alone. It is fully global, check this link for all National Organisers.ref: Global N.O. list and this link for all the Regional Organisers: Global list of all R.O.

My astro group that is closest to a 'club' is called 'Sharing Space' .. Sharing Space and its fully global, with thousands of members, all voluntary. The facebook group has 578 members currently, about the same number as the top two astro societies in NZ, at 600 approx each. ref http://www.facebook.com/mozasaur?ref=profile#!/group.php?gid=7594579183&ref=ts

Question. why do some morons want to hate so much in the face of achievement? lack of regular lithium? failed relationships? lack of media attention? most would say jealousy, and I have to admit incredible success with media and awards, achievements, living my dreams, doing what i love to do. Perhaps the 9 to 5 grind is too much and some people don't know how to get out of the rat race?

Back to more serious stuff

-talk prior to July 2007 archived here [2]

-talk July 2007 to April 2009 archived here: [3]

Respect for Achievement and Contribution to Society

Where is it? funny how even after I make New Zealand History once again i get preached at.. where is the good intent here? I went out and got the verification and brought it back to make it easy and still the slamming goes on. There are so many pages with tags out there needing fixing, verification and citations needed all over the place, where is the negative energy flowing from? I delivered material for many articles, and the mainstream media saw fit to write about me and my contributions to society, so you judge who has the good or ill intent, I'm not fighting anymore, too much good work to do out in the society that i live in. It's called New Zealand, and Planet Earth. Paul Moss (talk) 13:26, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

A new era

where respect and truth are valued and seen clearly for what they are, as opposed to endlessly perverting the information in myriads of ways, confusing the discussions to prevent positive outcomes, for personal motives and skews on reality. Lets lift our collective game, we are all a bit tired of the old way.

A bit hopeful I suppose

I suppose that was a bit hopeful, with at least one kiwi editor running around rv 'ing anything that moves.. look, all I ask is that you operate under the same rules that you preach; if you preach compliance then it's fair that you deliver compliance. If i remove something that isnt verified or referenced, then you shouldnt put it back, and if you really must, then you should at least add the verification!!, but really, what does rv'ing my stuff actually say about your behaviour?? that's much more important in the scheme of things, because it sucks.

"Paul collaborates with his son Ray Ching (Grandson of artist Raymond Harris-Ching and son of internationally acclaimed wildlife artist Colette Cheyne)" [4] . It seems to me you are removing material you know is true for your own reasons ("not relevant to bio") and then trying to find another excuse ("verification unavailable") when this is challenged. Now for all I know there is some family feud between Ching and his daughter which is why you are removing it but that sort of thing shouldn't be a factor in a wikipedia article and if it is you should be up front or if it has to be done on the quiet go through proper channels. Actually I'm totally confiused now, What exactly is your relationship to all these people? - SimonLyall (talk) 12:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

my relationship (or not) is of course only what can be verified out there.. lets focus on our own areas as a better path to a better wikipedia, or an approach that values and enhances each others contributions here, and to society generally. Lets not create any more possible stuff such as 'feud', its not true and diverting us both from our really important missions here.Paul Moss (talk) 12:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Verification and references accelerating away

I had hoped that a wikipedian somewhere would note that my work as an artist and astronomer has been reported in significant publications for some years now, and act accordingly. It is worthy to note that mainstream media have picked up even more in recent weeks as we approach the next and biggest show so far in the STARS series, set for Galatos in Auckland June 4th and 5th.

Summary of Media. A full page article in the Sydney Morning Herald (1,000,000+) about my lecture 'Dont Shock Your Hi-Fi System' (1984 December 3rd page 43) should have been enough, a half page in the Dominion Post (200,000+) directly about me 'Rennaisance Man' should have been enough. Add the D-Scene 'Star Men' article, The Wellingtonian, Kapi-Mana News, The Press, and countless mainstream (New Zealand Film Archive, Wellington City Council, Dunedin City Council, ++) websites , and ask if thats enough yet? And thats only the available media.

The thing is that today I've noted a plethora of web sites carrying news notices about the new STARS event at Galatos in Auckland: NZ Music Magazine [5], Amplifier.co.nz [6] and thats on top of AA things to do etc etc.

The purpose of this note is to alert all the interested wikipedians ahead of time, so you dont waste too much energy fighting when someone adds some of this material to wikipdedia, clearly i wont waste my time, as you will just shout COI and kill it despite the reality. Please note this is possibly the biggest ever video art production seen in this country.Paul Moss (talk) 12:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

and does the UNESCO and IAU IYA2009 website count for anything? [7] What does it mean when they talk about me and my awesome photograph?

and in Discover Magazine (700,000 printed copies) "April 2009, On page 18 in our "Hot Science" section." [8] yes thats nearly 3/4 of a million prints, and 6 million readers... trivial compared to rv'ing as many articles as you can each night for years.. yeah right.Paul Moss (talk) 02:17, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Radio New Zealand 101 Radio frequencies nationally - yes significantly thats ALL of NEW ZEALAND

Radio New Zealand National's programming is distributed via several means.

[edit] AM Frequencies [edit] North Island Kaitaia - AM 837 Kaikohe - AM 981 Whangarei - AM 837 Auckland - AM 756 Hamilton - AM 1143 Tauranga - AM 819 Tokoroa - AM 729 Rotorua - AM 1188 Gisborne - AM 1314 Napier - AM 630 New Plymouth - AM 918 Wanganui - AM 567 Palmerston North - AM 1449 Masterton - AM 1071 Kapiti - AM 567 Wellington - AM 567 [edit] South Island Blenheim - AM 567 Nelson - AM 1116 Westport - AM 1458 Christchurch - AM 675 Timaru - AM 918 Queenstown - AM 1134 Alexandra - AM 639 Dunedin - AM 810 Invercargill - AM 720 [edit] FM Frequencies

Radio New Zealand National is the first station in New Zealand to incorporate the Radio Data System in its FM signal. Some FM stations are 101FM state-owned public service frequencies and some are owned by non-profit community organisations.

[edit] North Island Kaitaia - FM 101.2 Kaikohe - FM 101.6 Whangarei - FM 101.1 and 104.3 Auckland - FM 101.4 Hamilton - FM 101.0 Tauranga - FM 101.0 Whakatane - FM 101.7 Tokoroa - FM 101.0 Rotorua - FM 101.5 Te Kuiti - FM 94.0 (Community owned) Taupo - FM 101.5 Taupo - FM 104.7 Gisborne - FM 101.3 Napier - 101.5 FM New Plymouth - 101.2 FM Wanganui - FM 101.6 Palmerston North - FM 101.0 Masterton - FM 101.5 Kapiti - 101.5 FM Wellington - FM 101.3, 104.5 [edit] South Island Blenheim - FM 101.7 Takaka - FM 98.2 (Community owned) Nelson - 101.0 FM Greymouth - FM 101.5 Christchurch - FM 101.7 Ashburton - FM 101.4 Lake Tekapo - FM 89.0 (Community owned) Twizel - FM 92.6(Community owned) Omarama - FM 97.3 (Community owned) Otematata - FM 106.7(Community owned) Timaru - 101.1 FM Wanaka - FM 101.0 Milford Sound - FM 92.0 (Community owned) Queenstown - FM 101.6 Alexandra - FM 101.5 Te Anau - FM 101.6 (Community owned) Dunedin - FM 101.4 Invercargill - FM 101.2 [edit] Other islands Chatham Islands - FM 89.7 (Community)

Vanilla look

almost a year later, Ive had a wander around other TV programme sites, documentaries etc, and quite surprised at the lack of images, but that fits with the overall direction of this site and the attitude of the wikipedians here i suppose. as close to vanilla as possible seems to be the current trend on these articles, such paranoia about flavour. the new age of conformity or nothing. wikipedia isnt paper but it sure looks like wikipedians think it is. Now on the upside, you know what National Television have called me, an Astronomer and Artist, and you know that National Radio also called me the National Organiser of Sidewalk Astronomers in New Zealand, and the references are available and independent of me, so you cant say again that you didnt know or cant find them.. wikipedia adolescent phase is over, its time to grow up now.

Hi Paul,

Why do you call your little club sidewalk astronomers ?

I am from New Zealand and this is the first time that I have seen the term Sidewalk used as in New Zealand we tend to say Footpath ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewalk#Other_Countries . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.56.247.143 (talk) 14:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

the answer is above. I didnt name the global group and its rather huge in size and life; many decades now. I'm a Regional and a National Organiser, ref [http://www.sidewalkastronomers.us/id216.html

http://www.fraser-high.school.nz/schoolbadge.htm

How the School came by its Badge and Motto Mr W. Fraser Principal 1924 - 1949 Old School

It has to be remembered in the first place that the School was located within an important Maori area. Consequently when the House System was inaugurated it was perhaps natural that the various Houses should be endowed with the names of Maori Canoes. For some time too I had been toying with the idea of some Maori emblem that would be suitable for the School Badge.

Then a possible source of help came to mind in the person of Mr W.H. Wills who at the time was Principal of Otaki Maori College which, though now non-existent, was the earliest secondary College in New Zealand, having been established in 1840. Some 20 years before, Mr Wills and I had both played football together for Auckland University and were also housemasters together at St.John’s Collegiate School, now incorporated with King’s College. Mr Wills had early connections with Te Aute College and indeed on the demise of Otaki College was later to return to Te Aute as a member of the Staff.

Old SchoolHis response was prompt and to the point. His story was that in the early days on every bend of the Waikato there was a Maori Chief and hence the area was known as the land of many chiefs - Waikato Taniwharau - Taniwha designating the Chief - rau, a hundred signifying the large number. He also said that the expression Waikato Taniwha-rau was well known and respected throughout Maoridom.

He suggested too that it might be possible to adopt the Taniwha as the School Badge and at the same time make use of the accompanying term as the School Motto.

Older Schools and Colleges in New Zealand being of a classical foundation sported Latin mottoes of an excelsior type. Founded as a Technical High School we had no clams in that direction, but here was something to live up to, and in New Zealand’s own native tongue: Taniwharau - The School of the Many Chiefs - and believe me in its varied and unusual product the School has already gone far in achieving something of the ambition contained in its school motto - Taniwharau - The School of the Many Chiefs.

School BadgeThe next step in the task was not so difficult as on the Staff as Art Master at the time was an Old Boy Mr W.E.W. Lewis (Ted) AR CA. To him was assigned the work of designing the badge. He made a trip to Ngaruawahia and studied the figure, a Taniwha, as depicted on some pedestal or other and finally produced the design of the many headed monster, the Taniwha as it appeared on the original together with the wavy lines to symbolize the Waikato River. I have been informed that from a heraldic point of view the design is sound.

I must admit to being somewhat inclined to favour the smaller copies of the original design. The School Song with its well known refrain of Taniwharau was written by Miss Ethel Madeley, a Senior Mistress, and set to music in a somewhat unusual key by our Music Mistress Miss Margaret Roe. So you have the story of the School Badge and the School Motto Taniwharau The School of the Many Chiefs. ref: http://www.fraser-high.school.nz/schoolbadge.htm

Icon Group International

You state on your userpage that: "I am reported in a book as an Astronomer on PAGE 409 [23] Title Wellington: Webster’s Quotations, Facts and Phrases [etc.]". Unfortunately, these books by Icon Group International are computer-generated, with most of the text copied from Wikipedia (most entries have [WP] by them to indicate this, see e.g. [9]). Despite giving an appearance of reliability, the name "Webster's" has been public domain since the late 19th century. Another publisher to be wary of as they reuse Wikipedia articles is Alphascript Publishing. Fences&Windows 17:36, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

sure is a lot of bs online.. but its only a teeny piece of the reality/unreality pie..

a further thought, why does this piece of nothingness (the false book ref) invoke such energy, when the actual reality of everything else on that page is so much more relevant and important to my public life? Its just a point of view for discussion. I get that it's easier, perhaps just search wikipedia for such uses of those simulated books, and kill them. and I agree with that too. But I also see significantly more value in catching people getting it right; positive support and progression will always generate more work and better outcomes, than the equivalent of the medieval inquisitions, that just breed fear and disenchantment, lowering productivity.

MfD nomination of User:Paul Moss/Captain PJs Disco

User:Paul Moss/Captain PJs Disco, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Paul Moss/Captain PJs Disco and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Paul Moss/Captain PJs Disco during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:36, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

stupid fucker. it is not an ad, its an historic record of a notable business and creative enterprise, but you clearly no nothing about reality. it is so called 'wikipedians' with your stupidity and irrelevance that makes this place increasingly irrelevant to mainstream... go and do something constructive ffs.mozasaur (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

the page is clearly not an ad, there is a carbon copy here for anyone to make up their own mind. It supposed to be consensus you dumbeee... It hasnt operated since early 1980 so how can it be an ad. you probably cant count either so hey, its 30 years. THIRTY YEARS. oh a Dr Who ad.... but you wont even get that joke. in fact you dont even know what a joke is. http://www.gadot.wellington.net.nz/musicgen/CaptainPJ.htm. We played more than 50,000 records to thousands of people for 7 years and you have deleted how many characters? slight unbalance here between giving and taking but you wont see that either. in fact i dont care that much anyway, i gave that up a while back, after all its me thats off to my international exhibition on the OTHER side of the planet, not you, i moved on from this space, you are still stuck here. lol.

lol

doesn't this just illustrate ever so clearly that consensus simply doesnt exist here???

== Captain PJs Disco Captain PJ is the alter ego / stage name for Paul Moss and Captain PJ's Disco was the operating name for the live entertainment section of the business Grafic Programmes Limited, in Hamilton, New Zealand, from 1975 to 1981...