Talk:Gangsta rap

Redirect

Someone recently redirected hardcore hip hop to this article. It'd be good if anyone could comment at Talk:Hardcore hip hop#Redirect. Thanks, Spellcast (talk) 01:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Mafioso Rap

If you're talking about Mafioso Rap, shouldn't Rick Ross be included? His lyrics as well as videos, and generally his image is of a Mafia-"Boss", and didn't he claim that he ran the biggest drug cartel in Miami? --Daondo (talk) 22:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Negativity

Tests done in the area of applied kinesiology comparing various forms of music reveal that rap music, gangsta rap in particular, is the most negative of all possible music genres. But I don't need AK to tell me that. If you listen carefully, some of the lyrics have the singers admit they committed murder and given the long criminal records of some of the performers, I would not be surprised if genuine murders did happen. Rap is the worst thing that ever happened to music.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.107.239.233 (talk • contribs) 20 September 2009, 09:18 (UTCP

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And please don't bring chiropractic disputes here. / edg ☺ ☭ 15:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Please keep your comments focused on improving the article. You may want to review How to use article talk pages and WP:NOTOPINION. œ^™ 21:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

What is extraordinary about the claims? Your article mentions controversy and the article would be more objective if it actually admitted the criminal records of rap artists like DMX, the Wu-Tang Clan and Snoop Dog to name a few. No need to hide rap's true colors. These records and skirmish with the police is the best free PR these guys can get! You already have the links in wikipedia. If you're talking aesthetic, what is there to prove? Why are we burdened with "extraordinary proof". The rappers do what they want without it. We can do likewise.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.71.55.235 (talk) 12:27, September 22, 2009

Wikipedia articles are not for PR. This article is about gansta rap, and I can see how mentioning that some gangsta rappers have criminal records is relevant to this article, but because of WP:BLP policy you must cite reliable sources that back it up if you want to include this information. -- œ^™ 19:43, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

If so then edg has better things to do than create bad and inflammatory PR by insulting expressed opinions. As for reliable sources, I already provided wikipedia links. If wikipedia links aren't reliable sources for you, what is? Just follow the wikipedia links I gave and anyone can get a description of the skirmishes between these rappers and the law. I can make the links more precise by zeroing on the actual description if you prefer. You are right that they are relevant because that particular theme is paramount in their music. So I gather I can be bold and amend the article with the understanding that such links should be provided? Green light on this one? As for edg, he needs to make up his mind: you either embrace evil or you don't. If it's the latter, the article HAS to be factual and objective without taking sides. If it's the former - well hey! - (and it looks like he is a fan) don't expect Queensbury rules not to apply to the rappers (and their fans) while the rest of us (including the police) have to play by them.

• If you honestly think that listening to a song is "embracing evil" you probably shouldn't be editing this article at all, as you clearly will have difficulty maintaining a neutral point of view. The fact is that although many of these artists make songs describing acts of crime and violence, most of it is just stuff they made up to sell albums, and all the negative attention they get for it serves only to boost their record sales. Sure, Eazy-E was a drug dealer, and Ice-T was a gang banger and a pimp, but neither of them were ever convicted of any of the hundreds of murders described in their music. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
• Really.. you never heard of the term "studio gangster"?? And no, other Wikipedia links are not reliable sources, you can't use Wikipedia as reference to itself! Please be sure to read and understand WP:Verifiability policy and what constitutes a reliable source before making any edits. -- œ^™ 02:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

You exaggerate. How the devil would you know what these rappers have actually done or not done anyway? Let's not limit ourselves to drug-related offenses: E.g. rappers C-murder and Mac Minister were convicted of murder (hey! now there's a rhyme and song for you!). You're making gratitious assumptions. If I amend the current article, everyone is free to examine and edit if need be. If I write something outrageous, of course, it will be removed. There is a forum here. Where does it say the article should be written only by fans? If I stick to statements backup up by references i.e. crimes that reached convictions, stick to the facts, how can it be faulted? I make no pretense at being able to convince you or the rappers. It's not that you need more convinction. Actually some rappers only need one convinction, about 5 to 10 years :-) :-)

Also what you are claiming about wikipedia articles not using other wikipedia articles is very odd because (i) these articles are often written by different people and so it's not a reference to itself and (ii) as a matter of fact, hyperlinks with cross-referencing to other wikipedia articles is actually encouraged! But if you prefer, I can avoid the hyperlink and just provide the actual external reference used in that other wikipedia article even it means duplication of the said reference within wikipedia (although that duplication of reference is just dumb). Criminal records can be found out anyway. I am puzzled at the lack of - how shall I put it? - "consistency" within the comments I have seen. If eminem can write songs expressing a desire to kill his mother, and that is ok with you, then what on earth is wrong with my expressing a desire, in a song, or even a blog, to put a pistol next to Snoop Dog's head and force him to listen to endless recordings of Lawrence Welk?  :-)  :-)

I Can't Live Without My Radio by LL Cool J

could this be the earliest song where a rapper mentions themself as a gangster? beastie boys have a mention and rightfully so, but this song came out in '85 and possibly recorded or written in '84. the song referred to in the article by the beastie boys, which i assume is slow ride, came out in '86. despite not being a gangsta rap song, im just saying it could be considered noteworthy as the first moment in rap's history where a rapper called themself a gangster. can anyone else let me know of an earlier moment if i'm wrong here? --Leaf7 (talk) 21:21, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Interesting.. you could be right, although LL Cool J is hardly a "gangsta".. the earliest mention I've heard about was Ice T in 1986. But you should definitely try asking at the Wikipedia Entertainment Reference Desk.. lots of very knowledgeable people there.. you're much more likely to receive an answer there. -- œ^™ 22:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Boogie Down section

Couple negative points about the first paragraph. First, the bit about 9mm Goes Bang is just plain wrong: "in it, KRS-One boasts about shooting rival weed-dealers, and cops after they try to kill him in his home." The only mention of cops is "it did not sound like any cop"; the rivals that he shot (in the song) were actually members of a crack dealer's posse. Second, the last sentence: "Shortly after the release of this album, BDP's DJ, Scott LaRock was shot and killed. After this, BDP's subsequent records were more focused with the inadequate rationale removed." What does the author mean by "inadequate rationale"? Without any prior elaboration, it could mean anything from the album cover's imagery to Scott LaRock's scratching. I've changed the line about 9mm somewhat. I also disagree with the summary of Criminal Minded offered in the section above: "It wasn't about messages or "You Must Learn", it was about gangsterism." Yeah it contains violent imagery, but is also loaded with lines about knowledge ("Elementary" and "Poetry" at the very least). But I'm not gonna bother changing that since it's not much of a deal.

While I'm on the topic, I would agree with the bit about Ice Cube toeing the line between glorification and denounciation [of violence], as it seems to be a common trait of gangsta rap and worth mentioning in this article. The best example I can think of is two contrasting lines from Criminal Minded: "I won't contemplate a battle cause it really ain't worth it / I'd rather point a pistol at your head and try to burst it" and "You seem to be the type that only understand the annihilation / and destruction of the next man / that's not poetry, that is insanity". But that's just my interpretation-- great rap challenges the listener to draw their own conclusions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.251.223.42 (talk) 23:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Geto Boys & Scarface

It's not fair. Geto Boys and Scarface are pioneers of gangsta rap yet they are hardly getting any mentions. Wanna know their influence? Well, Scarface back in 1989 wrote a song about selling cocaine and killing his rivals while sitting at the top position of the drug lords in his city with "Scarface" from Geto Boys' 1989 album, Grip It! On That Other Level. This, went on to influence Kool G Rap's album Live and Let Die (1992) which got the idea for "Straight Jacket" right out of "Mind Playing Tricks on Me" by Geto Boys (1991). And Geto Boys are also pioneers in the fact that they took violence in gangsta rap to the next level. As evidenced in the 1990 version of "Mind of a Lunatic" they made graphic descriptions of necrophilia, rape and schizophrenic imagery which no one else in gangsta rap had gotten to at this point. Therefore the Geto Boys deserve a lot more credit not to mention they created horrorcore around the same time as Esham did in Detroit. They simply deserve a lot more credit, they came out in 1989 which is quite early for a still growing genre that only really had N.W.A "fully repping it". Want more? In his solo debut 1991's Mr. Scarface is Back, Scarface made descriptions of being mentally unstable, and made cocaine based drug related stories that is the staple for mafioso rap which even has it's own section. Hell, at this point I'd say Geto Boys are the most influence gangsta rap group next to N.W.A. MayhemCreator (talk) 21:14, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree that Geto Boys are pioneers in Gangsta Rap, with Scarface of course being the first to popularize the whole Scarface Tony Montana craze and the first to actually sample the movie (don't quote me on this). And Ganksta N-I-P who is affiliated with Geto Boys has been doing the horrorcore thing since 1991, which is probably even before Esham and ICP (again, I don't know for sure) -- œ^™ 11:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Dan56 reverts

There isn't really anything to discuss, except that Dan56 is probably blind, since my citation clearly does match my edit. So Dan56, maybe you need to see an optician or something. Pass a Method talk 07:05, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Please avoid ad hominem attacks and focus on content.
Looking at that book you linked to, a quote I find on page 69 is "[Gangsta Rap] performers such as [...] advertised their association with various Crip factions", and on page 72 "Crips are not alone in their affinity for gangsta rap. Marion 'Suge' Knight, founder of Death Row Records, allegedly maintains links to the Bloods" (the sentence after that refers to Hip-hop performers, not Gangsta Rappers, with links to Bloods).
In conclusion, the source you found supports that numerous gangsta rappers claim to have ties with Crips, and one producer allegedly has ties to Bloods. That is IMO a bit weaker than the claim that was in the article. Amalthea 07:45, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I have just used your above description. I hope for a compromise from Dan56. If he repeats his previous actions i may have to seek an alternative, less friendly, route. Pass a Method talk 10:31, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Again, focus on content please, avoid threats, and assume good faith: We are here to build an encyclopedia based on a few basic principles and policies. If Dan56 has valid concerns then he should remove the affected sections. The editing principle described in WP:BRD is established and accepted by the community, and reverts are often part of the process for finding a policy-based wording that has consensus (≠ compromise!). It's not personal. Amalthea 11:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll be sure to schedule an appointment for an optician soon, but for now, how about adding an inline citation correctly? The numerous citations added are still just bare links and does not specify the book page being cited, as I've noted in my edit summaries. Perhaps Template:Cite book, or whatever else is acceptable with Wikipedia:Citing sources? Dan56 (talk) 16:11, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

There are several such refs which are cited just like mine throughout wikipedia. I have never seen an admin take issues with it, including the admin above Amalthea, so i say leave it as it is. Pass a Method talk 16:22, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Since you're so adament i will work on one of your concerns Pass a Method talk 16:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Thievery

From the opening paragraph, isn't thievery the same as theft? 58.114.192.189 (talk) 02:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)