User talk:Santhemant

Deshastha

Namaskar Mr. Hemant Sant

That may be beccuase the families have ancient vedic tradition of having devis as kul devtas.While a point to ponder is RENUKA the mother of PARSHURAM JI is a mother kul devta to so many deshasthas,while hE himself is the founder-savior of CHITPAWANS maharshtrian brahmins.So now imagine how close both the communities are!! But who drives the wedge and behaves as if weare different and superior ?NOt fair isnt it.[Balaji]] as their Kuldevta. Balaji is regarded as a form of Vishnu by most Hindus but as Shankar by the Lingayat community. The Kuldevta is invoked on auspicious occasions like weddings and initiation ceremony (munja or Upanayanam) to obtain her blessings. Families also make pilgrimage to their Kuldevta temples after an auspicious occasion. The location of the Kuldevta temple may give a clue as to the original abode of a particular family because families may have chosen a particular temple as Kuldevta for geographical proximity and vedic time tradition .Rememeber the gotras are derived from Seven rishis who kept the flame of sanatan vedic dharma alive after a pralaya or a disaster then.Saptarishi kund is found above the Kalindi peak Yamunotri Uttaranchal and Renuka(Sarnaul Uttarkashi or Himachal lake)many himalayan villages till Lohit kund Arunachal assam border and in Kutch too Koteshwar.Jamdgani s'village is Than barkot Uttaranchal.Malan Himachal; kullu.

Mr. Sant , your contribution did not make for easy read. Please note wikipedia is not a blog. also if you wanted to make your point regarding Kokanastha or renuka or the Lohit kund, you should make them on the discussion page first. The way you added to the main article almost looks like vandalism.

--74.9.96.122 (talk) 17:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Ramadasa

A tag has been placed on Ramadasa, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. <3 bunny 05:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Ramadasa

Ramadasa, a page you created, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Ramadasa and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Ramadasa during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Thebluesharpdude (talk) 05:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC) Thanks for deleting! What can i say I translated one of the classics Universally appealing prayer asking from Almighty of the real Alms we all human beings need.My own translations once blogged on another site was printed here by me for universal benefit.You do not accept it for technical reasons!? i am not net expert .Just read the english translation of the marathi words prayer to consider it as Universally needed prayer penned by Saint Ramdasa 1682AD from India .amen om shantee.

Recent addition to Alms undone

Dear Santhemant -

With a heavy heart and reluctant hand, I undid your recent addition to Alms per Talk:Alms#Recently_added_.22Hinduism.22_section_from_.22all_rights_reserved.22_material_at_http:.2F.2Fsanthemant.sulekha.com.2F. In short, copyrighted material cannot be added to Wikipedia per WP:GFDL. Secondarily, Wikipedia content is ideally written in a neutral, scholastic tone with reliable sources used in citations (per WP:MOS and WP:RS). If you could add such pertinent material regarding Hinduism and alms, it would be greatly appreciated.

I hope you can appreciate that the value of the material you added and its earnest, devotional intent is by no means in question. It is simply a matter of abiding by Wikipedia policy regarding copyrights and style. I hope you see I wish you no harm and wish you great success.

Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

sir ia m a new use as i get used to your 'neutral and scholastic tone I will try ..but I am today unable to beg alms from the God in that tone neither did the saint whose words you deleted ..material alms can be asked in that tone but spritual alms for good of ALL ..how can I cahnge the tone and the words of the saint he wrote 400 yrs ago..It is matter of thinking the whole world as a family NOT about being a Indian or a Hindu as is apparent to most who read these lines.Is there no place in wiki for such original words of past ??

santhemant

Dear Santhemant -

First, let me thank you so much for you excellent new additions to the Alms article. Well done!

Second, if I may, it sounds like it might be beneficial if I try to be more specific in terms of what is allowable and not allowable on Wikipedia (to the best of my understanding) especially in regards to the material you previously posted at Alms:

• A person can directly quote from another source as long as doing so does not violate a copyright. (See, for instance, WP:COPYVIO.) So, I believe, copying one or two paragraphs from another source and then providing your own words to add information prior to and/or after the copied material is generally okay. On the other hand, copying over an entire page from another source that is copyrighted probably violates the original source's copyright. Wikipedia (WP) could then be prosecuted, etc. In addition, when one copies material from another source, that original source needs to be identified (see WP:CITE and WP:RS). More explicitly, in terms of what you had initially added, what was the source of the material starting with "Komal Vacha de de Ram ..."? (By the way, if the associated English next to it was your own translation and you have not published you own translation on a copyrighted site, it would be okay to use it here on Wikipedia. I think it could be a problem though that you already seem to have published your translation at http://santhemant.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/02/give-me-only-this-o-rama-swami-samarth-ramdas.htm which has the words "DO NOT COPY," etc. on the bottom of it. Now, if you can prove to WP that you are in fact the author of that site and give complete permission to reuse the translation here, then I would hope that your permission would be acceptable; but, honestly, I do not know how to go about authenticating such permission.)
• On WP, capital letters should not be used for emphasis (e.g., see Wikipedia:MOS#Capital_letters). Thus, when you wrote, "ALMS ARE NOT ONLY MATERIAL BUT SPRITUAL ...," this would need to be changed to standard upper and lower case letters (e.g., "Alms are not only material but spiritual...").
• On WP, we are admonished to maintain a "neutral point-of-view" (see WP:NPOV), not reflecting bias. Thus, when you write, "Swami ji wrote this with so much karuna -bhakti ,that tears would flow from our eyes if we recite this with same bhaava ...," I hope you can see that this does not give the impression of neutrality. (Please also see WP:PEA about avoiding so-called flowery language, etc.) In addition, some of what you wrote appears to assume that the reader worships a god of some sort; such an assumption is not neutral.

I think that these are the main things that struck me when reading what you had initially written (in addition to the need to try to format the material properly, for instance, not including the words "Feb 9 2008 | Views 8 | Comments (0) Leave a Comment Tags" in the text). If you would like me to explain further or clarify any of this or if you simply disagree with what I have said, please just let me know.

Also, if I may share a thought that took me a while to appreciate (although perhaps you already fully appreciate this): Wikipedia has its own rules that often do not allow us to express ourselves in the manner that we most desire to do so; thus, in such cases, to maintain our own and Wikipedia's integrity, we have to forgo our desires and abide by Wikipedia's rules. Now, frankly, for people like you and me, people who have deep spiritual convictions and desire to share that which gives us deep joy with others, it is sometimes hard not to bend the rules of Wikipedia; but, when we do so, it is helpful to appreciate when someone reminds us that we have done so and expects us to change what we have written. (This happened to me just a couple of months ago in fact :-) )

I hope this is helpful. Best wishes,

Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 06:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Santhemant -

I've given some more thought to the issue of copyright and see that WP:COPYVIO states in a commonsensical way:

"Some cases will be false alarms. For example, if the contributor was in fact the author of the text, then even if it is published elsewhere under different terms, they have the right to post it here under the GFDL – the text may still be unsuitable for Wikipedia for another reason, but it is not a copyright violation."

So, in short, are you the one who owns the rights to the content on http://santhemant.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/02/give-me-only-this-o-rama-swami-samarth-ramdas.htm ? Or perhaps is it the website provider? For instance, who generates the box on the bottom of the page that states: "Page protected by COPYSCAPE - DO NOT COPY." If you in fact hold all rights to the text on that page, then my above concerns about a possible copyright/GFDL violation do not necessarily apply. If that is the case, we can work on simply addressing the other items (which, I believe, are much easier to address). If you do hold all rights to the text, then please let me know if you would like to show an example of how the text you initially inserted might be re-formatted/edited so that it would be more compatible with WP's various policies (as I understand them).

I hope you are healthy and well,

Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 07:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

For instance, here's an example of how the verses you translated might be better represented on Wikipedia:

Komal Vacha de de Ram Vimal karni de re Ram Prasang Aulkhi de re Ram Dhurt kala maj de re Ram Hit karak de re Ram Jan sukh karak de re Ram Antar parkhi de re Ram Bahu jan maitri de re Ram Vidya vaibhav de re Ram Udasinata de re Ram Mago nenne de re Ram Majh na kale te de re Ram Tujhi Aavdi de re Ram Das mannhe majh de re Ram Sangeet gayan dere Ram Aalap godi de re Ram Dhaat mata de re Ram Anek Ghati de re Ram Rasssaal Mudra de re Ram Jaad katha majh de re Ram Dastak Taali majh de re Ram Nritya kala majh de re Ram Prabandh sarali de re Ram Shabd manohar de re Ram Savadh pana majh de re Ram Bahut pathantar de re Ram Das Manhe re Sadgun Dhaam Uttam guna majh de re Ram Pavan Bhiksha de re Ram Deen dayala de re Ram. Abhed bhakti de re Ram Atma nivedan de re Ram Tadrup ta de re Ram Artharohan de re Ram. Sajjan sangati de re Ram Aleept pana majh de re Ram Brahma anubhava majh de re Ram Ananya seva de re Ram Majh veen tu majh de re Ram Das manhe majh de re Ram.

give me a genteel speech give me a life of timeless edifying work for the good of all give me the ability to know the importance of the situation well give me the ability to judge people minds and act accordingly all my actions should be for the Good –welfare of any and all give me that which helps most and the many needy give me ability to read the minds and souls of those whom we meet give me a real friendship of the many of all classes and strata give me the prosperity of the right education wisdom divine give me a attitude of dispassion for materialism and gathering let me really need to ask as little as possible for myself alone give me what I do not know is long lastingly good for me give me perpetual fountain of affection-longing for you ever give me nothing else but Rama perpetually within my mind soul musical speech which I could use to sing your wisdom & paeans for all the sur and taal and right sweet notes so as Not to falter while doing above..spell binding the listeners of Rama katha. allow me to be of the same Mud–culture and ‘frequency’as all masses allow my ram katha to take as many attractive forms as any my whole being while singing this should be attractive and spell Binding so that the attention of those who listen masses will not Falter and distract give me a flowing thick plot about your katha so as to spell bound The listeners and really reveal your divinity to the masses in the need the taali which we give the clap while ram katha be loud and clear Resounding effect of the story on the masses is desired here-symbolic give me even ability to dance well if required for you and katha my diction grammar and word play should be faultless and flowing straight into hearts minds of the listeners ever all the time too.. right sweet gentle and acceptable words ever on my tongue tip.. always alert to the enemies within and outside to me and mine all as much wisdom on my tip of the tongue as I read ,for the benefit of those who Need it timely when they ask me anytime.. this servant of yours needs for me and mine all to be store house of Perpetually good ‘abilities- character’ ..ever for all give us all the best of the above ever timely. Pavan give me this divine alms in these forms the ability to be kind and act for the needy as are You to me .. give me and all unfaltering omni present devotion in goodness-YOU.. ability to introspect and understand me myself and my thoughts action ability to feel One with your form of character and action you present to us ability to transcend the need for the material needs till that is essential give ‘me’ ever the companionship of the wise and the divine ability to be unbound ,dispassion, be free from any (DIS)attractions! give ‘me’the divine experience of revealed perpetual Truth the easy means for to get all the above is by giving ‘me’ ability to SERVE others- And YOU in that form ..ever give to me my true self revealed without the shades and covers Of ego and body aurora which encloses ME=it perpetually.. this servant of yours is asking nothing less than you in your Complete revealed self within me and Us all..

Is there some way to excerpt from this a core few lines (e.g., 10 lines) that exemplify the notion of "alms" in Hinduism? That might be most appropriate for the Alms article. (For instance, please look at how quotes are used in the other sections of the Alms article -- I think the longest quote is eight lines and most are just one to three lines long.) Perhaps if you create a new WP article on the author of this verse or on this verse itself then even more of this translation would be appropriate there. Does what I write make sense?

Best wishes,

Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 07:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Santhemant -

One last idea for now, if I may. If it is not obvious, my knowledge about Hinduism is not very deep. It might be better for you to discuss questions you have with people from the Wikipedia (WP) Hinduism community. Here is their main page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism. Here are the names of some WP editors who participate in the development of WP Hinduism articles: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism/Participants. If you would like to ask for advice or guidance from the community, I think an appropriate place to do so is at the bottom of this page: Wikipedia talk:Hinduism-related topics notice board. In addition, you can go to the "talk" page of one of the participants on the aforementioned "participants" page and add an entry at the bottom of their talk page. If you would like me to post a query on the "notice board" page for you and/or about your initial addition to Alms and other pages, please just let me know and I would be happy to do so.

With metta,

Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

August 2011

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Universal Prayer, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Mild Bill Hiccup (talk) 02:21, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Bhiksha. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Mild Bill Hiccup (talk) 02:38, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

There was Another 'Jesus' too..Saint Gyaneshwar.

There was Another ‘Jesus’ too.. To Bury one self alive at peak of ones Life in a deep well like hole dug especially for it requires immense will power and something which is supra human. Live Samadhi is surely as excruciating and horrific to all those of us even today to imagine as being crucified alive with nails struck on your all four limbs like what Lord Jesus had to undergo .The idea that soon your whole body especially face nose and mouth would be covered irreversibly with mud earth and one would have to bear immense and prolonged painful ‘death’ itself would raise a shudder down ones spine or worst.

Deep dark hole dug on the earth on outskirts of Village Alandi near Pune Maharashtra in 1292AD stared back at onlookers. The prospect of going down it so deep and dark for even few minutes was horrifying to all especially those who Loved The 21year Young Monk with more than their own lives. When one knew that he was the most learned wise and awakened Soul who wrote the first treatise on Indian Wisdom for masses in local language ever-in Marathi,ones mind refused to accept that this was actually happening.many before him had gone down and out of this mundane world after a full life ,but rarely had any one of his age of 21 had ever done this daring act to face such a death.This Wise did it at the age of 21 on 13th day of the second half of Kartik in Shaka 1218=1292 AD.

In 1271 AD lived a genius who left this world richer by his thoughts as he left it later at the age of 21.Saint poet Gnyaneshwar- Alandi Pune India. He understood all that Indian thought stood for and gave to the people answers to all their problems then. Even today his Gnyaneshwari Geeta is read across India especially in Maharashtra. He created the most revered creation in literature of Marathi language. He was a social reformer who had to suffer a lot at hands of conservatives then still he ended his life by entering a state of SAMADHI bliss for Eternity- at Alandi pune at a age of 21. His last words after a harrowing time he had with this mission of his life is a sublime poetry of the mankinds' ultimate wish.-Happiness for all peaceful co existence, with all round progress for all by Focus on faith ever increasing within. He prayed for ‘The true knowledge-wisdom’ for us all by continued contact and in 'Touch' of those who are Aware and Awakened- the true saints and the book of Geeta.

The Poetry Prayer which is algorhythm for human evolution -how can we survive nay Grow ahead .. "Pasaay daan" = A boon/alms of ‘Perennial Nectar’ of Bliss asked for all humanity “O Omnipresent God pervading the Universe & also within all of us living beings, Whatever efforts I have done by this poetry of life (Gyaneshwari Geeta) Please elevate it to the heights of YOUR divine satisfaction. only then it can be universal & not mine alone! Please grant me a boon / an alms for these efforts, for all living beings… (first of all I beseech you to help the unwise unkind unhuman..)

• Let the knots of vices be undone in the hearts of the unwise and the cruel

Let their devotion and fondness for good deeds and be of service to all , by their proper actions,(be seeded in them and then..) Increase ever so more..

• Let the friendship between all the Living beings /mankind increase ever under your divine grace.
• Let those wretched & unkind wallowing in the darkness of their vices-(laziness, Greed, Anger, Egotism, Jealousy, excess Desires, Ignorance of all these and their cures),see the LIGHT of truth,(by continued focus on this 9,000 verse simplification of the GEETA, The Gnyaneshwari.)
• So let Everyone, thus ,get this 'sunrise of knowledge of his /her own duties= Swadharama' and way of life, (having this now..)and Let Everyone get this Godly goodness (of Swadharma) within and let all their wishes and their unselfish desires come true,
• Let YOU shower the purest ecstasy of divine true Devotion on each of the Devotees we meet on this earth, and so let their Faith in HIM and each other, increase forever and ever.

Come one and all to the 'state' where the The Tree that fulfills all wishes (saints are like a walking ‘forever-giving’ tree= kalpavriksha itself), and the Gem or like a parasmani - gem who can transform matter to divine or Infuse divinity within us ..which fulfills all your Divine desires …are all calling you, So is the resounding call of this vast ocean of Faith which calls you all to drink this Ambrosia of the divine faith and bliss from its never ending source, (the Geeta)

• Let the Wise good men who are like spotless full Moon giving us cool light within or heatless Sun which sheds its power to reveal all by removing the darkness , or are like oceans of wisdom and faith be omnipresent-readily available for the needy masses and be Active for benefit of all,

• Let all these people in the Bliss of the divine feel 'complete'=one with You in all the three Worlds of their existence , by worshiping YOU in their hearts always..
• Let this book of love and universal happiness lead you ALL to be masters of your Outer and the Inner worlds, THE MIND ,by conquering all the vices and distractions ,seen and unseen and thus be able to see the PURE TRUTH,
• O Kings (Lord) of All the Three Worlds! Almighty omnipresent! Nivrutti nath my GURU ..This is the only boon I ask from you ever, nothing else can please me now than bliss for all. I am happy O God for your grant of this boon of love within, True Faith, Truth, to the humanity..

Through this book Divine, YOU, have written through me..”” So saying The Great Saint gifted this divine commentary of 9000 verses on Shrimad Bhagvad GEETA ,made easy and relevant to the people of the thirteenth century and beyond till today and for the Tomorrow. He dissolved his whole being into this yearning for the Good Of the World, perpetually in pain, bondage and Maya-falsehoods. He felt COMPLETE only when all living beings were truly in bliss ,by following the tenets of GEETA ,he simplified..