Talk:Christmas tree

Artificial Trees

I'm just curious where the "seventy percent of trees in the United States are artificial" statistic comes from? i'm suspicious of its accuracy, and there's no citation. thanks.

Tree in Rio de Janeiro

What about the Christmas Tree in the Lagoa [Lagoon] Rodrigo de Freitas? It is 27 storeys high... I am sure it is worth mentioning?

File:First Christmas Tree monument plate in Riga.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:First Christmas Tree monument plate in Riga.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests September 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 09:35, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Images

The current version of the article contains too many images that either duplicate each other (e.g. [1], [2], [3], and [4]), are not informative, or have low quality (e.g. [5]). If history teaches us anything, the volume of image uploads (some undoubtedly worth keeping) will soon begin to increase as we get closer to Christmas. I suggest that before we face another seasonal deluge the present number of images be either a) reduced by deletion, or b) superfluous/uninformative images be listed as a gallery (yes, I do know that galleries only encourage more uploads). Comments? --Vihelik (talk) 22:57, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Bump. Dalit Llama (talk) 22:18, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Christmas Tree as a fire hazard?

Reports often indicate a significant number of fires occur each year as a result of Christmas trees. Perhaps there should be even a brief section in reference to that topic 50.101.166.241 (talk) 19:40, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Origin

The real history of the christmas tree and the history of the tradition should be documented better. Right now it is very skewed to be in favour of a christian perspective without any mention of previous religions and their beliefs/customs with regards to evergreen trees.

http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-christmas-trees — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bootlegapparel1 (talk • contribs) 04:08, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

It's about Christmas trees. I don't really believe that the worship of Ra, for instance, is relevant even though it's in the link. It isn't about evergreen trees in religion. Any sources would have to clearly make a link with Christmas trees. Dougweller (talk) 06:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Christmas tree comes from Livonia ?

If you say the christams tree was mentioned in Livonia in 15 th Century. You should know that at this time this area belongs to the State of Teutonic Order. This Knight order was founded by northern german crusader, who failed in Jerusalem and colonized Eastern Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.139.130.90 (talk) 22:20, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Common generalization that is only a half-truth. Before 1561, Livonia was divided into five sovereign states, namely those of the Teutonic Order, Archbishopric of Riga, Bishopric of Dorpat, Bishopric of Ösel-Wiek, and Bishopric of Courland, which sometimes warred amongst themselves. Parts of Livonia had also belonged to Denmark. --Vihelik (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

It would be useful for Wikipedia to be able to cite evidence that the celebrations in Taillinn (then Reval) involved a Christmas tree rather than a tree danced around like a maypole. Is there other evidence of dancing around a Christmas tree? The burning of the tree makes the celebration look more like a generic mid-winter bonfire custom than a Christmas celebration. So should it perhaps be given as a predecessor of the Christmas tree rather than as a Christmas tree? Does the 1885 Geschichte der Revaler Schwarzenhäupter call the tree in question a Christmas tree? In 1584, did Balthasar Russow call the Taillinn tree a "Weihnachtsbaum" or "Christbaum" or any other of the terms used of a Christmas tree? By then the specifically Christmas tree was a well-established custom in some areas, as recorded in 1605: "Auff Weihnachten richtet man Dannenbäume zu Straßburg in den Stuben auf. Daran henket man Roßen auß vielfarbigem Papier geschnitten, Aepfel, Oblaten, Zischgold, Zucker" (quoted in Ludwig Andreas Veit, Ludwig Lenhart, Kirche und Volksfrömmigkeit im Zeitalter des Barock, p. 81). Esoglou (talk) 09:36, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Russow's chronicle was first published in 1578, and the expanded version in 1584. Among other things, he describes various customary activities during holidays and celebrations that had been common before the beginning of the Livonian War in 1558. And yes, he is explicit about erecting the tree for Christmas, decorating it, and dancing around it. Elsewhere he also talks about the maypole (not a tree!), so he wasn't "confused" about the tradition. --Vihelik (talk) 20:10, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Article is semi-protected; can someone fix the grammar around this Livonia statement? "The tradition of decorating an evergreen tree at Christmas is claimed to have started in Livonia and Germany in the 16th century." The word "in" is missing, and it should be structured similar to how I did to avoid overuse of the word "in". Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.177.25 (talk) 16:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

tree forbidden until at least the 6th century

I figured this page would address that christians were forbidden from decorating with evergreens, wreaths and the like until at least the 6th century, because the trees were apparently still associated with old Roman Pagan traditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.125.23.126 (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Used as a Christian cross

Some churches however use Christmas trees as decoration at Christmas time. Others use the same stripped Christmas tree as a Christian cross at Easter.[citation needed]

I came across this passage while reading, and noticed that it needed citation. What, exactly, sort of citation is expected for this? This is actually a practice that my own church does (I am a member of the committee responsible for it, in fact), so I know that it is true and factual, but I assume that the word of Unregistered Joe Schmoe doesn't suffice, especially since I can't speak for any other church besides my own. ;) 173.49.33.160 (talk) 22:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

If your church publishes anything that describes the practice, you could use that publication as a reference. Does the church have a website that mentions the practice? If so, a link to that page would be a suitable reference. Or has the practice at your church been mentioned in a newspaper article or similar? Mitch Ames (talk) 08:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

New Year's Tree

Revision as of 20:55, 21 December 2011 (edit) (undo)Dougweller (talk | contribs) (Reverted good faith edits by Idot (talk): If it isn't a Christmas tree then I can't see why it should be in this article. (TW))

if it looks like Cristmas Tree and used by orthodox christians as Cristmas Tree it is the Crismas Tree :-)
or do you mean that new year's tree should be in a separate article?
in Soviet Time the Cristmas Tree was renamed by atheists to New Year's Tree, so it is used in FSU by muslims (as well as by atheists and jews) for secular celebrations of New Year (Idot (talk) 15:51, 22 December 2011 (UTC))

Who calls it a Christmas tree? Find some reliable sources that link it to the Christmas tree - see WP:RS for the criteria for sources, and then we can add it. Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Jews etc at times have Christmas trees and call them Christmas trees. As for the Russian New Year trees, they were banned after 1918 as looking too much like Christmas trees [6] so if that's right, you've got it the wrong way around and they seem to be separate things. The link comes from our article on the New Year Tree, which seems to have no sources that would be helpful. Dougweller (talk) 18:54, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I think the confusion should be solved by adding to the caption a link to New Year tree (Idot (talk) 14:31, 23 December 2011 (UTC))

Perhaps the listing of New Year tree under "See also" is enough. Esoglou (talk) 16:13, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Paydin added, but I've again removed a paragraph about Turkey's tree that is not a Christmas tree. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:39, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Evergreen coniferous

The article's lead sentence says:

The Christmas tree is a decorated evergreen coniferous tree, real or artificial, ...

however I suggest that the words "evergreen" and "coniferous" are not appropriate here, because:

• It is meaningless to describe an artificial tree as evergreen.
• Artificial trees are not coniferous - they might be constructed to look like, but they are not Pinophyta.
• Although most real trees are coniferous (being pines or firs), they don't have to be. Eg "Adenanthos sericeus ... is commonly sold in southern Australia as a potted living Christmas tree." I'm not a botanist, but Adenanthos sericeus does not appear to be a conifer.

I suggest that the words "evergreen" and "coniferous" should be moved from their current location. My proposal:

The Christmas tree is a decorated evergreen coniferous tree,, real or artificial, traditionally associated with the celebration of Christmas. It is brought into the home and decorated [...] An angel or star may be placed at the top [...]

Most natural trees are evergreen conifers, such as pine or fir, because they do not lose their foliage in the northern hemisphere winter.

The earliest accounts of decorating an evergreen tree [...]

Thoughts anyone? Mitch Ames (talk) 03:36, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

If you suggest not to use the words "evergreen" and "coniferous", why do you suggest to use the word "tree"? Yes, formally an artificial tree is not evergreen and coniferous, but it is not a tree too. Krasss (talk) 05:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)