User talk:Mitch Ames

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Will catch up closer to wp birthday day as to what might be happening - otherwise HNY satusuro 13:01, 1 January 2015 (UTC) My sincerest apology - it looks like nothing short of some miraculous something or other, the actual wikipedia birthday event today , may simply be a few edits on the birthday celebration page, rather than anything live and in real time in real life... perhaps the 15th next year will be more real - cheers... satusuro 22:45, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Dept of Education[edit]

your 2012 abomination of the education department stub has been further damaged by me - your comment is welcome there satusuro 09:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I trust you take that in the spirit of WP:AGF and new year cheer :) - satusuro 09:50, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
As always ... Mitch Ames (talk) 10:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
what bothers me is that the website of the ed depts still uses DET - while they call it ED - something spurious there satusuro 10:31, 2 January 2015 (UTC)


You now have over 25,000 edits on wp en!!! - cheers satusuro 13:31, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Fremantle Prison GA[edit]

The 2nd opinion reviewer suggested promoting to GA after the two issues raised were fixed, which I did a few days ago now. Would you feel comfortable checking/promoting to GA, now that the article has been reviewed by an uninvolved editor? - Evad37 [talk] 00:21, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I still support the GA, but I also still feel that I am ineligible to formally promote the article, for the reasons originally stated. Given that the minor issues raised by the second opinion have been addressed, I suggest that appropriate action would be for @Folklore1 to replace {{GA nominee}} with {{GA}}, per the reviewing instructions. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I have promoted the article to GA. Thanks for helping the nominator with so much of the hard work that it takes to produce a good article. Folklore1 (talk) 18:28, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Murder of Kylie Maybury[edit]

I checked What Links Here for Murder of Kylie Maybury and it's only linked from talk pages. It's effectively orphaned. What should we do? Paul Austin (talk) 10:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Tag it as an orphan, in the first instance. Then look for articles that might be suitable to link to it from. Timeline of major crimes in Australia is one possibility. Maybury (surname) is another. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

for as long as i remember[edit]

I have not wandered into user talk space to lecture/guide/or advise other users their stupidities or obvious mistakes if they havge been stated or created in Xfd space, as a matter of principle - I leave it to stand alone and be self evident. I wish you would do the same. Please remind me to not lock you in a cell tommorrow satusuro 14:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Assuming that we are talking about this...
I thought the first point was a fair question(s); or if taken rhetorically, a genuine suggestion (even if of the obvious).
Likewise the second was a genuine attempt to fix the problem that I though you were implying - that editors were not clear/consistent about the intended contents of a category.
"I have not wandered into user talk space to lecture/guide/or advise... Xfd space"
You have been known previously to explicitly invite me to discuss a category rename in user space, and comment in user space about category renames and other categories issues being discussed in non-user space . Feel free to explain why Xfd is different to the other instances. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:02, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
"for as long as i remember"
Perhaps if you occasionally put meaningful comments in the edit summary, and links in your posts to what you were talking about, then it would be easier to find the entries, and you wouldn't have to remember. Face-smile.svg Mitch Ames (talk) 03:09, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Trouts in any form or number are good medicine against inherently well explained and good logic. Bugger logic, links, and common sense. Long live age related absentmindedness and forgetfulness. satusuro 03:15, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
In my more paranoid days, I wonder if you're just deliberately taunting me. [1][2]. Face-smile.svg Mitch Ames (talk) 03:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
nah, at least we didnt lock you in any of the cells, none of them looked as if they had usb sockets :( - as for paranoia, dont worry everybody is out to get us, specially if we say comprised of or something similar... sigh satusuro 15:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Wrapping refs[edit]

Thanks for tidying up my edits on the Sydney Siege. However, I tend to lay out the source sentences starting on a new line and references starting on a new line so I can read it.

Do you know what causes them to be wrapped? Are you using some sort of GUI editor?Tuntable (talk) 05:25, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but I think this answers your questions:
Starting a sentence (not a new paragraph) on a new line (with no intervening blank line) is not a problem - the single newline will be displayed as a space, not a new line. See WP:LINEBREAK.
Putting the opening <ref> tag on a new line is a problem, because the newline displays as a space before the reference, but WP:REFSPACE requires there be no space before the ref. The simplest solution - which I use sometimes - is to put a space after the ref tag but before the template braces, eg:
... article text<ref>
{{ cite web
 | url = ...
 | title = ...
 | ...
I don't use a GUI or WYSIWYG editor - just the basic text editor showing all the markup. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:44, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Fremantle Prison, again[edit]

FYI, I'm nearly ready to nominate Fremantle Prison for promotion to a featured article. Seeing that the Main Cell Block capitalisation issue isn't really resolved, I plan on (in the FAC nomination) inviting FA reviewers to comment/discuss the issue, and hope some sort of consensus come out of that, unless you have any better ideas. - Evad37 [talk] 05:36, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I suggest that it would be better to resolve the capitalisation issue before nominating it for FA. It doesn't seem to be in the right spirit to nominate an article for FA when we know that there is an outstanding issue about whether it complies with MOS:CAPS. Perhaps a request for comment on that specific issue, so that we can focus on it independently of any other review comments. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:17, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


Funny what people think are countries these days... good catch... satusuro 14:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

hahappy easter - you forgot to sign at my talk page :)
did christmas island deserve all the astonishing array of categories...?
I think that a more appropriate parent category could be based upon

considering how small the population is - I do agree with you that perhaps the majority of the categories are redundant and hardly of any used to anything as they stand.... at least we agree wholeheartedly it is not a country... also I feel seasick when i see all the categories in the island - surely, they are on? But then, the questions that need answering, how many of the astonishing array of categories are really essential... and which ones are not, who are we to judge?

not sure which way to go - parent cat of Australian Indian Ocean Territories ? satusuro 01:47, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

also I feel seasick when i see all the categories in the island - surely, they are on? - Officially it is the Territory of Christmas Island[1], so "... in Christmas Island" is an abbreviated form of "... in the Territory of Christmas Island". Mitch Ames (talk) 02:44, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


Putting Category:Christmas Island in the more specific Category:Australian Indian Ocean Territories instead of Category:Australian External Territories is fine, but does not change my disagreement of the seealso on Category:Transport infrastructure in Christmas Island. Do you object to my removing those {{seealso}} items? Mitch Ames (talk) 03:12, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
The above also applies similarly to other categories, eg [3]. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:13, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
The whole christmas island thing is bizarre, no further comment at this stage. satusuro 13:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Murder of Sheree Beasley[edit]

Hi, could you do me a favour and give Murder of Sheree Beasley some love and care? Paul Austin (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I've made a few edits, but there's not much more information readily available online for me to add anything else significant. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:48, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

"Self-serving propoganda"[edit]

Thanks for that reversion. Actually, I haven't done any paid PR work for 25 years. I wasn't short of peeved critics in those days, so it's gratifying to still have the odd illiterate whinger paying a bit of attention. Bjenks (talk) 06:00, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

me again[edit]

Hello, Mitch Ames. Please check your email – you've got mail!
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User:JarrahTree 11:40, 2 May 2015 (UTC)


even if its in an edit summary - you should never admit to something like that, we already have many persone in competition for the most geographically challenged editor, you should not put yourself into the category - self nominating is unwise, believe me... User:JarrahTree 09:18, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Aboriginal communities in Western Australia[edit]

under no circumstance am I going to respond to your legendary systemic hair splitting on the 2 aboriginal community articles. Feel free to email or phone call and I can explain, otherwise do not expect an on-wiki response. User:JarrahTree 08:06, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
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User:JarrahTree 11:21, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
surely - have a look - it looks really crap - the numbers and the letters like that are really really yuk (they are not even separated), go on - change the heading and revert yourself... it is really ugly User:JarrahTree 13:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
The individual letters are very definitely subsets of "List" so belong under it. Alternatives are {{Compact Toc}} (as I had before), {{TOC limit}} (n=2), or remove the List heading.
(As previously mentioned, I believe this discussion would be better on the article talk page.) Mitch Ames (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
apart from a compatriot geographically challenged editor this am no one else has visited them, the word communities as heading could in one swoop remove the need for something that would bewilder the less literate as to what the hell is going on - a number with a letter is patently absurd User:JarrahTree 13:45, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps we can do something about that ... Mitch Ames (talk) 13:07, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Simply renaming the section from List to Communities does not solve the problem. The list of communities - broken into lettered sub/sections - is not logically a part of the Communities section if both Communities and (for example) "A" are both at the same heading level. The Communities section is effectively empty. (I was tempted to put an {{Empty section}} tag into it, but I am trying to discuss this productively.)
I agree that "a number with a letter is patently absurd" - whether it's "2.1 A" or "3 A". Again, I suggest using ===A=== and {{TOC limit|n=2}}, or {{Compact TOC}}, or remove the letter headings completely. Any of those would solve the problem.
The current structure is logically wrong and needs to change. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:12, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I am tied up in real world issues - maybe your suggestion for whichever of your three alternatives looks the best to you - there will be in time - about another 100 or more names of communities added to complement the full range of known named communities showing up in the 2010 report, unless there are other 'isolated communities' that havent been caught by the fed number crunchers User:JarrahTree 12:26, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


Do not bugger around with the aboriginanal community article anymore. It does not need any numbers, it is an overview of the broader non counting numbers aerticle, predicated by the current form.

It is highly contentious to identify any specific stats from any source at this point (they are POV - specially government published info), and if you look at its current form it is all that is needed.

Please find soemthing else to edit, the communities article is sufficient as it is - any number adding is contentious and provocative User:JarrahTree 02:18, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

I shall continue discussing, including elaborating my specific reasons for specific edits or why I disagree with certain existing text - with appropriate links to relevant policies - on the article talk page. I would ask that you do the same. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm a little more critical and will point out that currently the consensus on the talk page(on going discussion) doesnt agree with your edits as such you can consider this a warning that you are engaging in an WP:EDITWAR and should take alternative steps. Gnangarra 05:32, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Noted, but could you please link to the specific edit(s) in which you think I was WP:EDITWARing, and for each such edit point out the specific edits on the talk page that existed prior to my edit, in which consensus disagreed with that edit, and/or the previous article edit that I was reverting.
So far as I can tell, the relevant recent history - in chronological order - looks a bit like this:
In summary:
  • I have been discussing the lead section sentence - "...prior to that Indigenous people were non citizens with no right" - on the talk page, and have not made any related edits to that sentence since raising the matter.
  • After one person suggested - on my talk page - that the article didn't need any numbers, I added - once - a well referenced (ABS) and neutral statement that 99% of people were "remote", with a talk page entry explaining exactly why.
  • So as I can tell, I have not at any point "overridden [an]other's contributions". Mitch Ames (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2015 (UTC)ats not di
The lead section was removed and discussion started, you then did this contary to the discussion on the talk page – The sentence that was removed from the lead stated how many communities and people there were. The sentence that I subsequently added stated that the vast majority of the people (without stating how many there were) were in remote areas. Both the material and the stated intent were different.
... the fact that the discussion there your are the only descenting voice wanting stats in the lead – That was not the impression I got when you posted this apparent proposed change to the article wording - but still with numbers - in response to my comment in which I explicitly referred to the addition of the "statistics" that your comment appeared to be suggesting a modification to.
However, I'm sure we both have better things to do than this. I shall continue discussing on the article talk page, and try to get someone to agree before adding anything of consequence to the article. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:07, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
To be honest mitch, from what you have played with so far I do not think you can add anything of consequence to the article - you have a whole lot of abc stories that are utilised as refs that can be explored without even considering the numbers.

Please drop the numbers issue on aboriginal communities, it is a mind boggling time wastewr, the list article is where you should be playing with numbers, not on the aboriginal communities article, If you want a 70 minute explanation as to why aboriginal communities cannot be explained from any one perspective, specially one that excludes thew complex historical and anthropological issues that are associated with it, ring me in a fortnight and not before - real life has issues User:JarrahTree 23:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Re: category Photographers from Melbourne[edit]

Thank you for fixing that up Mitch, Much appreciated, Jamessinarau (talk) 05:10, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

technical issues[edit]

(removed edit conflict anxiety messages...) Apologies... Technical issues have stuffed up any hope of fixing the blatant errors in the later edits, so I have reverted back to your first duel - dual edit - there are more issues than can be cleaned up this pm - will come back to it in later days. I might even create a separate article for the narrow gauge station, as they are so different. JarrahTree 12:22, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Please remember that {{Under construction}} explicitly says "You are welcome to assist in its construction by editing it as well." (Implicitly, one should not make major structural changes.) Probably what you intended was {{In use}}. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:29, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for that, the problem is now there are about 4 or 5 railway station articles that are almost totally ahistorical which look like they have been created by what looks like a ---- from the east, I am not going to touch them for a while, as there are major issues about whether separate articles might be created for the 'old' or 'original' stations - and the user looks like a non communicative, non trove user... so much for any interesting conversations there... JarrahTree 11:38, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

your thoughts[edit]

[4] may be of interest to you perhaps.... JarrahTree 13:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations[edit]

There is an RfC that you may be interested in at Template talk:Infobox country#RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations. Please join us and help us to determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

looking for help in summarizing an australia edit[edit]

Hi, i'm work on an article about institutional racism and need an experienced editor to cull it down to the key point, relevance to institutional racism. I recently got into an edit war with an editor whose changes to the canada section removed the relevance and i wanted to run this by an experienced australian editor before repeating the same error. See the last story in my sandbox, australia. User: BeeCeePhoto/sandbox Thanks.... Robco311 (talk) 14:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

It was cited and placed in the article, Institutional racism Robco311 (talk) 02:29, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I've added a comment at Talk:Institutional racism#New Australia section. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanx.... Appreciated.... Robco311 (talk) 19:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Still working on Australia, content about current gov't policies lacking..... It was similar to fight over Canada, where the same policies got me into the edit war. What's your take on that final proposal? Robco311 (talk) 02:06, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

shout you a coffee[edit]

if you can work out whether is a copy vio or not, and if you were able to find any troves refs for any of the stages of the sequence - on the condition you dont tag it any further than that it is tagged. JarrahTree 11:51, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

"if you can work out whether is a copy vio or not" – Is there some reason why you think it is a copyvio? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:10, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

the first edit in 2012 - one day a number of subjects related to the same thing, and never seen again (the editor). The list and heading format suggests a website. JarrahTree 14:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
I did a few Google searches of phrases from the article, as well as searches through but I couldn't find any obvious source from which it had been copied.
The embedded bullet points in History_of_wheat_industry_regulation_in_Australia#1999 are a good indicator that at least that paragraph was copied from somewhere - but it could just be that someone wrote the article off-line with with Microsoft Word for example (I've been known to do that myself), then copied the text without cleaning up the formatting properly.
It's impossible to prove that it's not a copyvio of course, but in the absence of a source from which it was copied, the presumption of innocence applies. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:57, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
FYI [5] JarrahTree 09:11, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
appreciate you checking, thanks - cheers - it is a horrible article - I simply have never got around to see if there are any posisble trove links for any of the assertins in the article at all JarrahTree 12:14, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon[edit]

Would you be willing to help me with Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon? and have a lot of results when putting in Joanne and Kirste's names. I just need help fleshing out the article. I'm not the world's best editor or writer. Paul Austin (talk) 09:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

I've added to my watchlist, so if nothing else I'll copy-edit if necessary. Whether or how much significant material I add will depend on how much I time I have. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:03, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


There shouldnt be detail of days, as they can change the next time the timetables have a hiccup, your edit is exactly what we want - cheers JarrahTree 11:52, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Commons category[edit]

On the Sunny Corner, New South Wales page you moved the commons category link from 'External Links' to the 'References' section. I do not dispute that you are right but have always seen it in 'External Links' which came after 'References'. You mention 'per that template's doc page'; I have tried to find the doc page, but have failed. Could you please link me to it, so I can read it up and try not to make the same mistake again? SovalValtos (talk) 20:57, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:Commons category, in particular Template:Commons category#Location:
... this template should be placed at the top of the ==External links== section, or at the top of the last section on the page, if no external links section exists.
See also WP:LAY#Links to sister projects:
More precisely, box-type templates such as {{Commons}} shown at right have to be put at the beginning of the last section of the article (which is not necessarily the "External links" section) ... Do not make a section whose sole content is box-type templates.
See also Template talk:Commons category#Propose simplify wording of location.
Mitch Ames (talk) 03:02, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Fremantle Prison FAC[edit]

Hi Mitch. Fremantle Prison, which you commented on at its good article nomination, is now a featured article candidate. Would you care to review it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fremantle Prison/archive3 ? Thanks, Evad37 [talk] 03:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Murders of Margaret and Seana Tapp[edit]

Could you take a gander over the latest entry in The Wikipedia Murder Porn Project - Murders of Margaret and Seana Tapp ? Paul Austin (talk) 12:28, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Done. (It's on my watch list now, so I'll monitor it for a while. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:42, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Removing categories[edit]

Can you please stop removing categories in situations where the article is in both the parent and a subcategory unless you're absolutely certain one of them isn't necessary? It is completely possible to be Noongar and not born in WA, or born in WA and not Noongar, and it's completely reasonable to categorise them under both. This script where you repeatedly assume this is a sensible thing to you until someone yells at you in a specific context is getting very old. It may be a helpful thing to do, but please think first and if you have any doubt, don't - otherwise all you're doing is mangling our category structures. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:25, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

@The Drover's Wife: Can you please provide a source that supports your claim, in this case I believe what Mitch is doing is correct Gnangarra 12:35, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
"... removing categories in situations where the article is in both the parent and a subcategory ..."
WP:SUBCAT is fairly clear on that - "A page or category should rarely be placed in both a category and a subcategory or parent category". If I've misinterpreted that, or missed one of the stated exceptions, or simply made a mistake (it's happened a few times, when I've done a lot of them at once), please point out the specific change(s) that you think are wrong - ie contrary to SUBCAT.
"It is completely possible to be Noongar and not born in WA ..."
The Noongar article defines "Noongar as "people who live in the south-west corner of Western Australia", but perhaps I'm reading it too literally. It is possible that a Noongar person (born in WA) moves out of WA then has a child. The child may self-identify as Noongar (by blood/ancestry) without every having been in (and thus from) WA.
The specific question that we need to answer then is: should Category:Noongar people be a sub-category of Category:Indigenous Australians from Western Australia (and indirectly Category:People from Western Australia)? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:59, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Alan Moore (war artist).png[edit]

Thanks for uploading File:Alan Moore (war artist).png. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 10:05, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Done. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:20, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


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OSM/Operational Service Medal[edit]

Re: your revert of my change: I wasn't aware of that rule. As I read it, if the target article refers to the abbreviation "OSM", then this meaning may be added. The abbreviation is used in the world, eg [6], an official government site. IMO, this justifies reinstating my change - do you concur? BTW, this page, Operational Service Medal (United Kingdom), already refers to "OSM". Regards. Folks at 137 (talk) 16:14, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

The target of the link from OSM - ie Operational Service Medal - did not mention the acronym, hence removal of the entry from OSM.
Perhaps the solution (following DABACRONYM) would be to:
Mitch Ames (talk) 14:03, 5 October 2015 (UTC)