Talk:Odesa Oblast

i need to know historical population

historical population of this oblast is not being said in the demograpics section. where as i could go to any State of the USA on wikipedia and get historical population in all its census years. why not Odessa oblast? i would like to know when the first half a million people milestone started or some other relevent whole number. it may have been hundreds of years but atleast have some historical population. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.212.6 (talk) 23:27, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Mistakes

In section "Administrative divisions of Odessa Oblast, Ukraine" Please correct Rozdilniaskyi to Rozdilnianskyi —Preceding unsigned comment added by HAPKAH (talk • contribs) 14:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

• Fixed Template:Odessa Oblast as requested — Maliepa (talk) 01:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Latin Europe

Hello Odesa Oblast! There is a vote going on at Latin Europe that might interest you. Please everyone, do come and give your opinion and votes. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 21:17, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Should be Odesa Oblast, not Odessa oblast with two ss.

Ok, I can agree on the name of the city Odesa that is spelled as Odessa in English. But why Odesska oblast spells with two ss? I think it should be change to Odesa Oblast with one s. --68.44.228.126 (talk) 15:02, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Odesa should be written with one S, not with two. Odesa is Ukrainian city, and in Ukrainian city Odesa is written wish one S. --96.234.77.174 (talk) 00:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

Talk:Odessa Oblast – Odessa Oblast → Odesa Oblast – to change the current name. Odessa Oblast to Odesa Oblast with one S

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support I believe that the name should be changed from Odessa Oblast to Odesa Oblast, since this is the correct translation from Ukrainian to English. And Ukrainian is the only official language in Ukraine. --Oleg Kikta (talk) 20:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Per WP:NC and per similar move request at Talk:Kiev Oblast. Odessa is the established English name of the city, and the correct Ukrainian version would be Odeska Oblast, thus Odesa Oblast is WP:NOR and silly because it breaks consistency with the parent article of the Oblast's admin centre. --Kuban Cossack 19:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose this is the english site of wikipedia. it is pronuaced with two s's and if the actual name is not was you say it is and is odeska or whatever then your just being a bad person for trying to change something thats right all along

99.51.212.6 (talk) 23:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support Should be Odesa Oblast with one S. This is Ukrainian city, not Russian. --68.36.49.223 (talk) 03:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Moldovans

Given that Romanians and Moldovans are considered by reliable ethnographers to be the same, and given that (in all likelihood, though if someone has actual census data I'd be glad to revise my opinion) at least some people from the oblast declared as Romanian and some as Moldovan, I hope there are no objections to continuing listing them together. Biruitorul ^Talk 14:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The census had a write-in ethnicity field, so if Moldovans decided they're Moldovans, and not Romanians, let them be.Xasha (talk) 14:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why there's a debate. Our job is merely to report what the census or another source says. We can report how many people declared themselves Moldovans or Romanians, or we can report that some source says there are a lot of Romanians. Biruitorul, please cite some reliable ethnographers to advance the argument.

Here's the actual census summary: scroll to Odesa oblast. Listed are Ukrainian, Russian, Bulgarian, Moldavian, Gagausian, Jewish, Belarussian, Armenian, Gipsy, the last representing 4,000 persons or 0.2%. —Michael Z. 2008-06-25 17:02 z

For a good quote on ethnography, see here - the idea is that Romanians and Moldovans are actually the same, but the latter, having undergone half a century of Soviet brainwashing to tell them they weren't Romanian, and paint Romania as evil, no longer call themselves Romanian. (Note how in 1930, 56.2% of people in Bessarabia - which includes part of Odessa Oblast - declared as Romanian, but 0% as Moldovan.) So keeping "Romanian/Moldovan" would merely clue readers in to the fact that we're talking about the same people here.

However, since you did present census data, for which I thank you, I suppose we could for the time being keep the current version - not that there was anything wrong with the previous one. Biruitorul ^Talk 02:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Moldovans consider themselves Moldovans from the the 17th century. The fact that in 1930 no Moldovans appeared in census results it's not a surprise, considering the strong Romanization policy and the denial of ethnic rights to Moldovans. That's the same reason why no Moldovan appears in Romanian official census results even nowadays. However several sources, including Romanian ones, show that Moldovans continued to call themselves Moldovans during the Romanian occupation.Xasha (talk) 10:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Just for the record, Bessarabia (roughly Moldova) voted to join Romania and functioned as an integral part thereof, so there was no "occupation". Just as Transylvanians and Wallachians started to call themselves Romanian in the 19th century (actually the 16th, but anyway), so too did Moldovans; we're all one people now across both countries, even if for political reasons (such as attacks on Romania by the USSR and Moldova's Communist government today) some choose to deny that. Biruitorul ^Talk 18:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

More accurately, a council under Romanian military siege "voted" the "union" of a territory occupied by the Romanian army, which repressed Ukrainians in the Khotin Massacre, Russians at Bendery and Soviet-inspired peasants in the Tatarbunary Uprising. The majority of Moldovans from Bessarabia never called themsleves Romanians and never will, and those who contest this do it for political reason (such as megalomaniac dreams of recreating "Greater Romania").Xasha (talk) 20:57, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Even more accurately, a multi-ethnic national assembly (Sfatul Ţării, at that moment voluntarily boycotted by most non-Romanians) freely and enthusiastically voted union with Romania, at a time when Romanian troops were in the area to maintain order and contain the spread of Communism. Regrettable ethnic clashes followed, but the region was largely free and peaceful for two decades. The big exception was the Tatarbunary Uprising, an attempt by the Bolsheviks to destabilize the Romanian state and snatch a good portion of its territory. All Romance speakers in Bessarabia called themselves Romanian in 1930, and once reunification is achieved, the same result will recur at the following census. Which all has very little to do with Odessa Oblast, so I'll voluntarily cut part of this section if Xasha agrees. Biruitorul ^Talk 21:15, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

The ethnic identity issue should probably be mentioned here, but it sounds like a bigger topic than can be adequately covered by a sentence or two. Is there another article to link to? —Michael Z. 2008-06-26 04:55 z

It's already linked; Moldovans.Xasha (talk) 10:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Michael, we cannot "mention ethnic identity issues" in every Wikipedia articles where the Moldovans and the Moldavian language are mentioned. These terms are linked to their article and these issues belong to the few dedicated articles, such as Moldovenism, etc. Carrying on this discussion in hundreds of pages is mere clutter that is off-topic in the articles about localities. --Irpen 18:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Biruitorul ^Talk 18:58, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

If there's controversy over the terms Romanian and Moldovan, then it should probably be mentioned, not necessarily explained in detail, where the terms are used. After looking at this a bit more closely, it looks like it is really relevant in the more-specific article about Budjak, where there is a table note linking to Moldovenism. I'm satisfied with this. —Michael Z. 2008-06-26 20:44 z