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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by BacheMosbat (talk | contribs) at 03:14, 31 January 2012 (WP:RELIST|Relisted). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Bahram Nouraei (rapper)

Bahram Nouraei (rapper) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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This rapper exists, but lacks sufficient substantial RS coverage. Article created by an apparent spa. Epeefleche (talk) 07:33, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Jigsaw. Welcome back to the project. That would be a good time for you (or any of us) to re-write or add to the article (which you can have userfied, if it is deleted), with substantial RS refs. But we don't generally to my knowledge treat as notable subjects or wp articles on the basis of editors having been commissioned to write such articles in the future. (Others are welcome to correct me if I am wrong on this point). Is that the sole rationale underlying your !vote?--Epeefleche (talk) 23:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Thank you for welcoming me, Epeefleche. The article about Bahram Nouraei was commissioned because the editor recognizes and acknowldeges Bahram's importance and influence as an artist. I have followed Bahram's work for nearly three years. I didn't write about him before out of fear of triggering more persecution. Rappers in Iran don't have it easy, you know. And Ettala'at keep close tabs on the internet, including Wikipedia.jigsawnovicht (talk) 6:22, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Hi Jisaw. I believe you may have inadvertently !voted twice above. You may wish to cross one of the !votes out (while keeping the text, as I expect you meant to title it "Comment"), and indent it below my comment, which it responds to. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Thank you for your suggestion, Epeefleche. I'm still acclimating to HTML and Wikipedia protocol. I'm sleep deprived. Working on the Bahram article for publication was very intense. His life is really interesting.jigsawnovicht (talk) 23:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep One thing has to be understood. In Iran due to limitations on certain "western" articles like music, sources might be rare to come by but these authors and figures often have a vast enough following to merit Wikipedia entries. That plus the fact that he has multiple sources already in presence makes it a keeper. I have no problem with this bloke having his page at all. Dr. Persi (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Often having a vast enough following" is not what leads to a finding of notability on wp. Rather, the subject must meet wp's notability standards. Many of these authors and figures in Iran do -- see, for example, those reflected in Category:Iranian singers; this specific rapper does not seem to have the requisite substantial coverage in RSs, however.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • To be fair to the doctor's point, singers are not always deemed "west-struck" like rappers are. Bahram's "Letter to the President" is cited in Laudan Nooshin's excellent "Hip Hop Tehran"—See Iranian_hip_hop#Further_reading. My lack of Farsi, the multitudinous variations of transliterations of Farsi into English, and the name changes and different name forms of this rapper discourage me from searching, but i would not be quick to delete. 86.44.40.0 (talk) 00:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also would not be quick to delete. However, given the absence of verifiable, substantial RS support for his notability (having looked for it), I believe a slow deletion is in order. The problem with the above !vote, and the reason it should not be weighed strongly in the close here, is that it is not wp-policy-based.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps. I view his comments as a mix of informed comment and the important essay WP:BIAS. Guidelines like WP:MUSIC try to give likely indicators of notability based on western typicality. The point that sources are harder to come by here is well made. 86.44.55.100 (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • We try harder to overcome any bias. But we don't suspend our notability guidelines, however. Or imagine -- without verifiability, a core policy being met -- that multiple substantial RS coverage exists in the absences of verifiable evidence of it. We still require that our verifiability policy and our notability guideline be met. Any !votes here that suggest otherwise aren't based in policy, IMHO. And of course an essay is just the view of one or more editors, and is not akin to a wp guideline or policy.--Epeefleche (talk) 05:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 17:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Since this article has been relisted, I'm adding this as a new comment below the above notice as instructed. I just added to the Bahram Nouraei (rapper) article this excellent quote from London-based journalist Cyrus Sharad, who wrote IN ENGLISH that, "Against such a repressive backdrop it was perhaps inevitable that Iranian hip hop would find an audience...kids...dutifully memorising and repeating the sentiments of lyricists such as Bahram, Pishro, Erfan (Erfan Hajrasuliha), and Zedbazi with the same reverence that their elders once recited the slogans of the Iranian Revolution." This is part of the reason that Bahram was arrested and persecuted. Cyrus Sharad should be regarded as a serious journalist. His website shows that his articles have been published by Ambit / BA High Life / BBC Online / FT / Hotshoe / Huck / Iran News / Knowledge / Little White Lies / Mint / Modart / Navidson Record / New Statesman / Observer / Sight & Sound / Stella / Stool Pigeon / Sunday Times / Telegraph / Think Quarterly / Time Out / Transworld Snowboarding.jigsawnovicht (talk) 9:04, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
    I struckout your vote here because you already voted. Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Armbrust, B.Ed. Let's talkabout my edits? 19:50, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Though Sharad is a respectable journalist, the above is in the nature of a passing mention. However, with this, the cite i mention above (as 86.44...), and some of the article cites such as that of Mashkouri, a freelancer who writes for iranian.com and used to edit zirzamin.se, it seems to me broadly incontestable that this is a notable act. 86.44.38.30 (talk) 02:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Supported by the wp policy WP:SELFPUBLISH. Which states in part "self-published media, such as ... personal websites, ... personal or group blogs ... are largely not acceptable as sources.... Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so. ...Self published material is characterized by the lack of independent reviewers (those without a conflict of interest) validating the reliability of contents".--Epeefleche (talk) 05:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here's a brief (one sentence) mention in "The Music of the Children of Revolution: The state of music and emergence of the underground music in the Islamic Republic of Iran" [1] Sanam Zahir, The University of Arizona. Near Eastern Studies. So he keeps showing up in overviews of all underground music, here, or of all iranian hip hop, in Nooshin above. Has anyone checked R.C. Elling's "Zirzamin: Hip-Hop i den Islamiske Republik"? Or Sholeh Johnston? Have our Persian colleagues checked Haft Sang and anthropology.ir for all instances of "Bahram"? And so on. He is extremely difficult to search for, in a field where there is good reason for sources to be scarce, and where editors have little expertise, and yet we have quite a lot indicating notability. 86.44.55.100 (talk) 05:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The sources provided do not indicate that this person meets WP:N or WP:MUSIC. For the Farsi sources I am trusting User:Spada2's claim that the Farsi sources do not indicate notability because that user is quite experienced and seems to know Wikipedia policy well. This artist is mentioned in some places in English but not in a way that indicates notability. Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:29, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as per nom. Neither of the two sources (nassir-mashkouri.com & beshkan.co.uk) are reliable. Noted that both the articles have been written by same person (Nassir Mashkouri).Farhikht (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sokout.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:40, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. My four page feature article about Bahram will be published on February 5, 2012, and is expected to be on newsstands by February 7th. The article is in English, and will be published by an internationally recognized magazine. The article mentions Bahram's Sokout album.--Jigsawnovich (talk) 21:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. In June 2009 the BBC (British Broadcasting Corperation) broadcast segments of the "Ye Mosht Sarbaz" video in which Bahram Nouraei and his former producer, Atour, appear as part of an English language segment during which Hichkas was interviewed by a BBC correspondent.--Jigsawnovich (talk) 1:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached. Footage of Bahram Nouraei performing was broadcast by the BBC. And it would be premature to delete this article before we find out whether in fact a feature article in a magazine that meets the Wikipedia guidelines for RS is indeed published within another week as claimed by a commenter above.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BacheMosbat talk(talk) 21:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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