Talk:Charing Cross

Dear Queen?

"Charing Cross" is a corruption of "cher reine cross", that being French for "dear queen" Does anyone else think this is cackamamie? I'm often wrong. Wetman 06:00, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

First reference to this street is as "cyrringe" dated 1002 (S:903) and "la Cherring’ (1198) meaning 'turn, bend’ (in road) from West Saxon cierring. So can not be named after Queen Eleanor. (see Mx:167, Gelling 1954, Ekwall 1962:175, Mills 2001:44). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.41.184.208 (talk) 10:05, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

There is a Charing in Kent, near Ashford. Derivation is either "bend in the road" - so the bit in the article about "bend in the river" might not be quite correct, but alludes to the road by the river maybe? 2nd alternative may be ‘place associated with a man called Ceorra’. Both above according to the BBC see here. Nothing about queen, I'm afraid! Peter Shearan 13:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

"Chère Reine" is the correct French form. John O'Farrell claims that the name Charing Cross derives from Edward I traveling with the funeral cortège of his dear wife Queen Eleanor "all the way to London, ordering an ornate stone cross be erected at every point at which they stayed: Lincoln, Waltham Cross and finally Charing Cross". 7 October 2008

Conflicting

(1) The name Charing Cross, now given to a mainline railway station and the surrounding district of central London, comes from the original hamlet of Charing, originally in the area of the modern day station.

(2) The name Charing Cross derives from the old English word charing, meaning a bend in the river; thus, the Charing Cross is "the cross by the village at the bend in the river".

The second suggestion is at least consistent - 'char' does relate to a turn or bend (incidently we still use the word today for tea-lady, deriving from a person that does good 'turns' or 'chores'). So Edward's cross goes down near a bend (in the river or a road perhaps), the landmark is established and the area becomes known as Charing Cross. The 1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica says the origin is unknown although the cher reine theory is mentioned. AtomBoy 01:32, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Surely the word Char lady comes from the fact that Tea is known colloqiually as Char, from the Mandarin word chá (茶). Y control 12:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The word charwoman has nothing to do with tea or Mandarin and predates the introduction of tea to Britain and is in any case incidental to this Charing Cross entry. Check the OED for charwoman etc. if you are interested. I'm going to hoist out the Charing hamlet reference until someone comes up with a substantive reference. AtomBoy 21:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The map

Whats going on with the map? It looks fine to me. MRSC 20:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Exact centre of London

The article states that Charing Cross is "officially recognized as the exact centre of London". I've added a "fact" tag to the "officially" bit. It seems to be so (certainly throughout WP articles on London), but it is not clear what "officials" are recognizing CC as the centre.

It looks like someone has since added a link to a BBC article. Thanks! 82.27.243.53 19:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I've knocked that off as the BBC article does not itself seem to quote anything official but just a "tradition". I can't find any official appointment of Charing Cross as a reference point, even on the DfT site. Older maps often used St. Paul's Cathedral (or sometimes the Monument?) as the "centre" and that is where road-numbering kicked off from. The main "heavy-duty" users of Charing Cross as a measurement point seem to be the Civil Service and I suspect that they are to blame, possibly via the Ordnance Survey or otherwise by selecting a measurement point more central to where they tended to gather.--MBRZ48 (talk) 05:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)--MBRZ48 (talk) 05:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Moreover, the claim that all Greater London residential roads start their numbers from the end closest to Charing Cross is simply not true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.78.192.122 (talk) 11:34, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

"nearest places"

Nearest places

• Trafalgar Square
• Soho
• Holborn
• Mayfair
• Bloomsbury

Nearest tube stations

• Charing Cross tube station
• Embankment tube station
• Leicester Square tube station
• Waterloo station
• Westminster tube station

Nearest railway stations

• Charing Cross railway station
• Waterloo East station
• Waterloo station

What is the point of that whole section? What connection do Holborn, Mayfair etc have with Charing Cross? Holborn station is nearly a mile away. And why would you go to Westminster station if you were heading for Charing Cross? Lfh 10:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I've trimmed the transport back a little. Nearest places is still a bit confused, Covent Garden is between Soho and the area; Strand/Aldwych is to the east; Whitehall to the sw; the Mall to the w; Waterloo and the river to the s ... Kbthompson (talk) 11:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

OK replaced with a compass wheel. It should make more sense, except Covent Garden is NNE! Feel free if you've got any better ideas. Kbthompson (talk) 12:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Charing Cross Explained

'Charing Cross' denotes a road junction location like The Angel, Islington. Charing Cross Station was named after the junction location not vice-versa. This road junction is still marked on the map as 'Charing Cross', even though it is no longer a postal address. Colin4C (talk) 11:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

You are right, but the Angel is the name of a former Inn, and Charing Cross is the former cross in the village of Charing. By extension these names have become associated with road junctions after the original has passed into history. Kbthompson (talk) 11:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

It's Victorian replacement is named 'Charing Cross' in EH's national register of monuments - see link to IoE under refs. It's about 50 m to the east of the original site - agreed? Kbthompson (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree that it is 50m east of the original, but EH or no EH, the Victorian replacement is definately not Charing Cross (see for example Pevsner's guide to the buildings of London)..Seems that, since I left their employ, EH cannot get the staff...evidentally employing graduates of Luton polytechnic to write their reports these days...the old school pipe smoking archaeologists may have been shameless layabouts, but at least they had a bit of general education on British history and culture. Colin4C (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

There are a number of reasons why I think you unnecessarily pedantic on this point. It may be a pastiche, but if enough people call it a dog ...

I was also thinking of the datum point thing. It's not authoritatively defined. First it was adopted as a significant landmark close to Scotland Yard where the beasts who administered the legal niceties were quartered. Second, the AA was founded 1902?, and their first offices were in Fleet Street; moving to Leicester Sq 3 years later. From 1909 they began publishing gazetteers and maps. They also put up many of the first roadsigns and distances. I think it's their adoption of it as a datum that led to the convention. Proving it - well that's another matter. Kbthompson (talk) 10:53, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Charing Cross Explained II

The opening sentence reads: "Charing Cross is located at the junction of the Strand, Whitehall and Cockspur Street in Central London, England." However, it doesn't say what Charing Cross actually is. Is it a road? Is it a station? Is it a cross? What is it? Nzseries1 (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

That's a somewhat philosophical question...It's not the station, which is at a different location and was named after the pre-existing Charing Cross...it's not the cross, which is no longer extant and has been replaced by a statue of Charles I on the same location...its not the road, which has been renamed...its not the village of Charing, which has long been submerged within the urban sprawl of London...Possibly best to think of it as the junction of the three roads mentioned above, but not as actually having any physical dimensions in real space...Colin4C (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I figured it wouldn't be that easy - thanks for letting me know! Nzseries1 (talk) 15:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to add that as Charing Cross railway station is not the same entity as Charing Cross, is differently located, and has its own wikipedia article, I have reduced the info on it in this article. Colin4C (talk) 21:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the cross—the structure—it is mentioned that it was destroyed prior to 1675, but not how that happened. (Same thing in the Eleanor cross article.) I find it an important omission. Now, I don't have any specific sources in mind, but I believe the cross was pulled down by parliamentarians in the Civil War, viewed as a royal symbol, and that this was actually the fate of several of the crosses. The time-frame fits, as does the later replacement by a statue of none other than Charles I. Waltham, The Duke of 04:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think you are right about that. Someone (a royalist I guess) wrote a satirical poem about the destruction of the cross by the roundheads. The cross was also the site of a gallows where some of the regicides were hung, drawn and quartered at the Resoration. I'll see if I can find some refs. Colin4C (talk) 19:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

It should also be noted that the Charles statue was moved for a road widening scheme; it's about 5 m from where it originally stood. I read somewhere, the base was reconstructed by Pugin. It's a photo opportunity for someone. Kbthompson (talk) 18:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

So we need a shot incorporating the Charles statue and a glamorous model and/or myself and Kb standing where the original was. Might be a book deal in this. "In Search of Charing Cross: Pretentious Psychogeographical Musings with a Message - with an introduction by Will Self" would be the obvious title. Cannot remember when the last book about Charing Cross came out, if indeed there ever was a book on the subject. Colin4C (talk) 19:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I saw a brilliantly facetious satire on the removal of the Cross; with lawyers wandering too and thro because they could not get their bearings. No, I think the introduction to our book should be by Iain Sinclair - I picture you standing in the middle of the road with a divining rod; amongst heavy traffic. I'll be by the plinth leering up at a pendulous model. Perhaps just a shot of the statue would suffice. We could also provide a map with tenuous leylines stretching across England from the monument - making interesting geometric and cabalistic symbols.

There is also a plan to move London Stone - do these people have no sense? Kbthompson (talk) 10:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

and finally in Brave New World even the name is taken away and it becomes Charing T....--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Charing Cross

I grew up from birth to 30 years old in the rural area of Charing Cross. Small village of about 500 people south of Chatham Ontario Canada. I now live in Chatham. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wsummerfield (talk • contribs) 15:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Charing Cross / New Ross

Charing Cross is also the original name of a village in Nova Scotia, Canada founded by a British soldier, Captain William Ross, in the late 18th century, later called Sherbrooke, then renamed again to New Ross. The center of the village is still refered to as "the Cross". The forty British soldiers established a settlement several kilometers away from the Cross known as "the Forties". Near the Cross is an old stone carving / etching that was discovered in the 1980's that has been investigated and linked to the Knights Templar and the Holy Grail conspiracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.192.84.151 (talk) 02:05, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Residential house numbering in London

I've removed the assertion that "all residential roads in Greater London have the houses numbered such that number 1 is at the end nearest Charing Cross" because it's false. Some streets I'm personally familiar with are numbered the opposite way. For a random example, see Newby Street SW8 on Google Street View.--A bit iffy (talk) 05:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Post code

Charing Cross (as the central point of London) gets listed as SW1A by Google/Bing maps, but WC (presumably WC2N) by Wikipedia. I suppose if you think about it, those are the postcodes of surrounding buildings, but the junction itself doesn't have *a* postcode until someone puts a building there that you can mail. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? 109.156.119.136 (talk) 23:21, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Charing Cross as postal address

I was told by my bank manager at (RBS) Drummonds, that their address of 49 Charing Cross (London SW1A 2DX) was uniquely on Charing Cross, not Charing Cross Road. The building is not next to Charing Cross station, it is on the south west side of Trafalgar Square, next to Admiralty Arch, and I suppose, therefore, between Whitehall and The Mall. The point is that at some point there must have been 1-48 Charing Cross, although it is difficult to see where they would have stood as presumably Whitehall has been an open thoroughfare since mediaeval times, but maybe the east end of it was called Charing Cross, and maybe it extended in the area now occupied by the south side of Trafalgar Square. This could be linked to the fact that the original Eleanor Cross site is now a good way 'down' Whitehall. Maybe some London historical expert could add to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.193.120 (talk) 12:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Distances don't add up

The article says: "The site of the cross has been occupied since 1675 by an equestrian statue of King Charles I", and later "1865, a replacement cross was commissioned from E. M. Barry by the South Eastern Railway as the centrepiece of the station forecourt; about 160 feet (49 m) east of the original site".

This implies that the monument outside the station is 49 m away from the statue of Charles I, but there is no way that can be true. It's more like a few hundred metres. 86.151.118.165 (talk) 21:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)