Talk:Hardstyle

Bogus Edit

I am now going to fill the notable artists section with artists that are really unnecessary for the section. My point is to show everyone that we don't need a lot of artists here. Salamibears58 (talk) 16:35, 2 January 2012 (UTC)Salamibears58

HardStyle vs European Classical Music

Seems to me that the biggest influence in Hardstyle music is not electronic music, but old world classical melodies, theatrical music and carnival music. That is what make hardstyle more interesting - it is really orchestral music, and would sound just as good if it was played by a full symphony orchestra as it does with synthesizers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.38.147.4 (talk) 21:27, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Nu-Style article

I added more stuff to this area. However, my english is not so good, so there might be some typos. 88.114.158.1 (talk) 17:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Useless Links

They've been a number of red links (links that lead to no-where) for sometime. Should they finally be removed or not, in order to improve the quality of this article? I have tried to fix this in the past through the use of Google to find the relevant homepages and what not, but more keep appearing! Phobos Gekko 15:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Notable Artists Vandalism?

Please, stop writing hardly relevant names on the Notable Artists page. As the name of the category suggests, these artists listed should be considered NOTABLE for the scene... Im a big fan of the genre but yet Ive never heard of a single release by "DJ Irish" or "Psylent Pulse". I think the list should better be short, but useful. --ha-core 12:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

It is a mess. I've flagged that section with {{Redlinks}} and the whole article as {{unreferenced}} --GraemeL ^(talk) 13:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

who actually has heard of Psylent Pulse? also there's a wikipedia page for it?--Yiyun 10:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It is self-advertising probably. Anyway the article is deleted now. --ha-core 20:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Should The Prophet not be added to the notable dj's? Also Brennan Heart. Littlemissymoo (talk) 17:04, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The list kept on growing and growing with artists that only released a couple of single releases, but weren't notable at all. So I tossed out most of the names and added only notable artists with a wikipedia page to it. I think we should keep it that way

I'm adding some names that have been released on albums produced by Gary D.Chaisson72 (talk) 06:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC) 01:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I removed angerfist from the notable artists, because he is not hardstyle producer. He produces gabber hardcore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.158.1 (talk) 17:06, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Who is Adam AF2? Its uncited so i am deleting it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.43.218 (talk) 18:01, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Does Anyone Mind If I Put Hardstyle Mafia, They Were Pretty Big And They Should Be Noted. Dowa2bp (talk • contribs) 18:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Trance?

To me, it seems like hardstyle should be a sub-genre of hardcore, not trance. Am I wrong?

Well, hardstyle is a fusion genre of hardcore and trance. In fact, it should be in both categories, but I think it is more close to trance music than to the gabber music. --ha-core 21:38, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

We may want to make note of it's similarity to 'hardcore' music, and place a link to the hardcore wiki page in the introduction. Does this sound reasonable?

There is already a link to both gabber and hardcore techno in the introduction.--ha-core 07:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Hardstyle has nothing to do with trance, these are both different genres. Trance is just another form of electronic music which has evolved from house. Saying Hardstyle has evolved from trance is like saying Death Metal has evolved from country since they both use guitars.

Hardstyle HAS A LOT TO DO WITH TRANCE. Hardstyle is a form of HARD DANCE, which Hardcore is not classified as. Trance was the one of the first Hard Dance genres to emerge, and from using elements of Trance, other genres were born, which Hardstyle came from. People think Hardstyle came from Hardcore, this is incorrect. --Jordii 9:15, 6 March 2009

Im confused to which genre hardstyle belongs to, or if it has It's own. Please elaborate..

Hard Dance is the genre Hardstyle is 'grouped in'.

I disagree that it has nothing to do with trance. As previously mentioned it is a mesh of trance and hardcore but not as sloq as hard trance and not as quick as hardcore. I DJ hardstyle and have listened to thousands of tracks and i can tell you there are huge elements of trance in many tracks. Don't get me wrong, i am not a trance fan but i can hear the trancey elements. Firstly, many tracks are lengthy, there are stacks of breakdowns and you can't tell me that half the breakdowns hardstyle tracks have don't sound trancey! If it has to be classified it is closer to HARD trance but still with hardcore influences. I own tracks with both trancey and hardcore breakdowns all at once! To me the driving reverbing basslines clearly indicate the similarity with HARD trance. It't not hard trance or hardcore. It's a mix of the two and yes it is it's own style outright.

Closer to trance? No, trance if you look at the beats etc, is 1 big loop as you will, hardstyle is many loops of tiny samples and a big melody on top of it. Besides that, hardstyle is much harder than trance. Nowadays it is even more closer to hardcore, because the sound is becoming harder. Hardstyle, in the Netherlands and Italy is its own style. I can't speak for France and Spain. By the way, I suggest that you remove the notable artist section. It is never complete, and many artist that are in now, are not that notable. Altought you can say that is my opinion of course, but that's just 1 more argument to remove the section. Mallerd 18:40, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The same for the labels section. Perhaps only the pioneer labels, Straight On, Danamite .. Mallerd 18:41, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hardstyle is a fusion of Nu Style Gabber and Hard Trance, guys. Salamibears58 (talk) 14:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Events

I would like to point out that GraemeL has removed the 'Events' section to this article. If you click here and read dot-point 7, you'll find that it specifically says "although mention of major events or promotions may be acceptable". Feel free to prove me wrong, but personally, I do think the events section should be reinstated. --Phobos Gekko 10:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree... At least the largest events like Qlimax or Sensation Black should be mentioned. --ha-core 08:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Music sample

Should that music sample be changed? Even though Blutonium Boy is one of the top hardstyle producers, I don't think that clip's a good example of hardstyle, it sounds more like hard acid trance. That clip doesn't even have a beat. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.216.248.160 (talk) 07:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

seconded. what the heck is with those samples?! nothing like hardstyle, christ on a bike. am removing them now --MilkMiruku 07:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

It is hardstyle, with acid sounds in it...compare Acid over sydney with 10 kleine bassdrums or other tracid traxxx. you will see you are wrong. Mallerd 18:43, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

someone should add a DJ Zany track, any popular Zany track clearly represents hardstyle.

I highly recommend the upload of an early hardstyle track, an intermediate hardstyle track, and a modern, new school hardstyle track. The upload of all three shows the progression of the genre from the featuring of reverse bass to its slow morph into the pitched kick style we define hardstyle as today. An intermediate or progressive hardstyle track, I would define, is a track created during the time of the change to the modern style that features a pitched kick, but not a strong emphasis on the mid range frequencies of the kick. Other than just the change in the kick, one can also notice a difference in the synthesizer leads used in the songs. Early hardstyle features a highly detuned saw lead, gradually morphing to a lesser detuned and complex, rich, multiple waveform sound for newer hardstyle tracks.

This strategy is only to demonstrate the progression of the more mainstream hardstyle. In aid to the subgenres of hardstyle, such as rawstyle and dubstyle, an upload of songs demonstrating these variations would help demonstrate their deviations as well.--184.46.26.181 (talk) 23:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Holland or Netherlands?

The article states that "Many of hardstyle's biggest DJs, especially those from Holland, have evolved into Nu-Style", however I am not certain whether the editor meant Holland, the region in the Netherlands or if they meant the whole country, as the term "Holland" is still sometimes used to refer to the whole country. Credema (talk) 05:23, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

It means the Netherlands as the country. In English the term Holland is the same as the Netherlands except if stated otherwise. In Dutch the 2 terms are 2 different things. Perhaps it's best to replace all the "Holland"s with "the Netherlands". Mallerd (talk) 21:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Friendly Response: Holland is most probably being used in this article to mean the Netherlands, as many people outside of Europe still often use the two terms interchangeably to mean the country. This is often due to convenience. Holland is shorter in length and has fewer syllables than 'The Netherlands', making the former particularly easier to remember and articulate for the average citizen of the United States of America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.55.38 (talk) 02:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Jumpstyle

I think it's totally wrong to place a bit of jumpstyle information on the hardstyle page. Jumpstyle is a other genre than hardstyle. This is mostly result of the dutch people who have gone from pop to jump saying that all hardstyle tracks are jumpstyle, while they don't know anything about what is jump and what is not. I suggest the jump thingy to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.94.0.3 (talk) 12:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Notable Artists

Ok, listen. I was told i need a source, ok i know that but the current artists you're keeping on the page don't have sources so why did you remove mine? You should have removed them all. And for the record, Blutonium Boy, Brennan Heart, Deepack, Donkey Rollers, Headhunterz, Noisecontrollers, Showtek, Southstylers and The Prophet are well known artists and should be noted. I have a feeling this doesn't matter, but on Last.FM they are some of the top hardstyle artists. http://www.last.fm/tag/hardstyle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.242.104 (talk) 18:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The artists who are kept on the page have Wikipedia articles about them, which shows they are notable. If the other artists you mention are notable, you should easily be able to find mentions of them in independent, published sources. Continually adding these artists back to the list without any indication of notability could result in you being blocked and this page protected. Thanks, Gwernol 14:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

As such, Blutonium Boy can be added. Mallerd (talk) 12:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I have removed all "red" Artists from the Notable Hardstyle Artists section. Only djs with pages on Wikipedia have not been removed. Hard Kidd (talk) 9.33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I've just editted the section down to a selection of just notable artists that have a wikipedia article. I think it's best to keep it that way, cause the list kept on growing and growing with names that only had 1-2 single releases and aren't really notable. Besides that, that way the list can be miles long. --94.229.48.218 (talk) 01:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Sources

The article has been tagged for nearly six months as lacking in reliable sources, without even a single reference being added. Sources are required for Wikipedia articles - please see WP:V which is one of our core policies. Unless proper independent, published sources are cited soon, I will reduce the article to a stub. Thanks, Gwernol 13:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Last chance. Its been a month without any sources being added. Please source this article by the end o the week or I will reduce it to a stub. Thanks, Gwernol 17:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've reduced it to a stub, since there is apparently no interest amongst the editors here in supporting the article with proper sources. Editors are welcome to expand the article, if they have proper sources. Please do not replace the material deleted unless you have sources. Unsourced material will be removed. Gwernol 23:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Gwernol, I'll try and take this one forward- please discuss areas you want removed and we'll cut around them instead of deleting everything- some of it may be valid on its own merits. Things like description of hardstyle music's sound is difficult to source without a sample, but I'd say this description is accurate. I haven't been editing this before or I would have responded before- I used this article to learn about hardstyle- I don't want other people like me who look for it on wikipedia to only find out that it's a "sub-genre" of trance music.

Perhaps we could get rid of the area about its popularity and just focus on what it sounds like, who some notable artists are, where it originated etc. I understand you gave people time to work on this, but why not look for what we can save, and make something of this article? Get back to me on my talk page Kyle Dantarin (talk) 14:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

changed, it is not related to hard trance at all

If you all knew something you would know it evolved from hardcore.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.208.91 (talk • contribs) 21:41, 24 December 2008

Get your facts right. Hardstyle has NO ROOTS in Hardcore music. If you think Hardcore sounds like Hardstyle, you're quite stupid. Hardstyle is classified as HARD DANCE not HARDCORE, Hardcore is a different classification entirely and has no affiliation to Hard Dance. Hardstyle evolved from Hard Dance subgenres such as Hard Trance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.89.40.113 (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe take a look at this http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/?why_yes,_it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.3.95 (talk) 16:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Best Wikipedia article ever?!

This looks like it might just be the best Wikipedia article of all time. I feel like I really hit the jackpot with this one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.59.53 (talk) 13:16, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Well i think that hardstyle comes from hardcore... both styles were pushed in the netherlands en the artist who produced hardstyle they were also busy with hardcore is that time and are/were in both scenes important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.156.57.10 (talk) 15:33, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} [Dj Wheelz]

Mohawksteveo (talk) 11:09, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Invalid request. --JokerXtreme (talk) 11:14, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Notable Hardstyle related events

The link 'Decibel Festival' in the Notable Hardstyle related events section should be removed, as it links to the Decibel Festival in Seattle in the United States, which is not a hardstyle event. The Decibel Outdoor Festival is held in Hilvarenbeek, The Netherlands and does not currently have an article on Wikipedia. More information on Decibel Outdoor Festival at 120.20.120.234 (talk) 06:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

US Hardhouse

I think that US hardhouse also had a strong influence on hardstyle, specialy on The Beholder's records, and i don't think UK hardhouse had any influence on it.

Edit request from Rahkesh, 19 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The "hardtrance" link in the first line of text should be changed to "hard trance", the original link to the trance (music) page has little information on hard trance and a hard to find hard trance link. Also "hardtrance" should be changed to "hard trance" for consistency since throughout the article its spelled with a space.

Rahkesh (talk) 03:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

 Done Spitfire19 (Talk) 04:04, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Evolution over the years

I think something should be putin on how the genre has changed since its conception. If you use the Defqon.1 anthem from 2003 (DHHD - 30 Minutes) and compare it with the 2010 anthem (Wildstylez - No Time To Waste) you can see how its lost its "heaviness" it originated with. Apparently this is due to artists being forced to commercialise their music or face losing their jobs. Taken from | Global Hardstyle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.85.38 (talk) 21:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree, this is a vital part of its history and is the primary cause of the criticism the genre receives today. I posted a talk segment regarding the criticism and the possible inclusion of such an article on the Wikipedia page.

The genre "lost its 'heaviness' it orginated with" primarily because of the need for change. As Mr. Heady-Headhunterz introduced pitched kicks and emphasis on melody with his song "Sacrifice," such an eye catching change quickly gained popularity among the people who buy and listen to the genre. In order to continue making sales and money, other artists have to adopt this change or they will be swept under, lose popularity, not make sales, and in a way "face losing their jobs." Budding artists nowadays have to follow in this change and compete with the big name artists to have the spotlight so they can begin making sales and money through this overly produced genre. Because there are now so many artists producing the same sounding material, this is how commercialization ruined the genre as it does everything else. --184.46.26.181 (talk) 23:43, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

"Melodic" style

Never heard of Melodic style before, shouldn't that be Nu-Style? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.114.218.236 (talk) 20:07, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

yep it is nu-style--86.172.239.131 (talk) 23:18, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I have also heard few refer to this as "hardstyle-trance" and though Nu style hardstyle takes certain elements from trance, specifically, the melodies and uplifting sound, it is still hardstyle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.46.26.181 (talk) 23:04, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Notable Artist Section does not include many notable artists

Guys, this is getting ridiculous. There are way too many notable artist that aren't mentioned in the notable artists section. Artist like Brennan Heart, Davide Sonar, Dj Isaac, Noisecontrollerz,and Toneshifterz are extremely popular worldwide, play in front of audiences that reach 5-digit numbers, and sell cd's like they're mad. And yet they don't deserve a spot on the notable artists section? So what they have red links, that just means a wikipedia article hasn't been written about them yet. They're still notable artists, are you gonna mislead readers of this wikipedia page into only knowing half of the hardstyle scene? Same story goes for the notable related events section. Q-Base, Defqon Festival, Sensation Black, and many other events are notable in the hardstyle world. Every time I try to add these things they get deleted. C'mon guys, readers of this wikipedia page should get the full story. And also, to all the people who say hardstyle has roots in hardcore, let me just tell you, that even though hardstyle is related to hardcore, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO ROOTS IN IT. They are two genres that evolved independantly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.212.7.43 (talk) 01:38, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

P.S. THE BENNASSI BROS. DO NOT MAKE HARDSTYLE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.90.90.214 (talk) 00:14, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm gonna try to add Brennan Heart, Davide Sonar, DJ Issac, Noisecontrollers and Toneshifterz to the Notable Artists section right now. Salamibears58 (talk) 02:32, 10 August 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Wait a sec, it says on the edit page for that section to not add Artists without a Wikipedia Article. Sorry. Salamibears58 (talk) 02:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

I just removed Zatox since it was a red link. I also added Showtek since they were the first group to release a Hardstyle album. 206.127.180.142 (talk) 19:42, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

3/4 does not mean triplets

I don't think I have ever heard a hardstyle track that is not in 4/4 - 3/4 does not mean triplets, it means 3 quarter notes per measure. And really the only 'dance' music I've heard use a time signature of anything other than 4/4 would be some more experimental or IDM tracks. There are, however, quite a few hardstyle tracks written using triplets (a quarter note divided by three) rather than eighth notes (half a quarter note) or sixteenth notes (a quarter of a quarter note). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.80.28.12 (talk) 21:48, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Page locked

Why the **** is this page blocked? Kthx. --- » ʀѳɗʀiɱ3ɗɛiʀ0z ^{[̲̅т̲̅α̲̅l̲̅k̲̅]} « 10:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Poor article

I find the article poor, there is a lack of information about origins and development of the style, the early years. Por example, i found out that hardstyle could have started in 1998 in Italy by Cristiano Giusberty aka Technoboy. Dutch sound came later, by 2001. But it started to be known as hardstyle in 2001-02, first hardstyle compilations or events were born. First records sounds like very minimal hardhouse / techno tracks, with some acid touch; some years before, hardstyle became harder, darker and more melodical, takin influencies from both hardcore and hardtrance music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.136.184.168 (talk) 12:35, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Do you have references? Salamibears58 (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

K Guys

Just so you know, if you're gonna add a notable artist, make sure that artist is notable to the Hardstyle scene in which they emerged (i.e. Technoboy is notable in the Italian Hardstyle scene, and he emerged in it) Salamibears58 (talk) 20:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Suggestions for improvment (there could be more)

• The Notable Artists section is perfect as is. Despite my activity in the past about listing artists "notable to the scene in which they emerged", I now think that a handful of artists is enough. From listening to those artists, newcomers to Hardstyle could expand their horizons and discover other artists without Wiki articles. Same with the "Notable events" section. Qlimax, Defqon 1 and Black are enough. Salamibears58 (talk) 17:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Feel free to add anything else to this list. Salamibears58 (talk) 17:18, 23 November 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Hardbass in Chile

Hardbass is very popular in Chile. 190.47.38.9 (talk) 15:05, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Finally?

It's good to see that this article almost has its act together. The only this is the lack of verifiable content. But for the most part people have worked around the limitations. This article was a pain in the butt to maintain. I guess that goes to show me that sometimes you just have to let something go, and then go back to it and see how it's grown. Makes me wanna cry... Aw... shucks! Lighthead ^þ 06:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

More K Guys

I've deleted most of the uncited material from this article. I'm also proposing deleting the "This Article needs additional citations for verification" label because of this. Thoughts? Salamibears58 (talk) 22:57, 19 December 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Why can't I add Noisecontrollers to notable artists?

For some reason the Noisecontrollers wikipedia page won't show up if I add them to the notable artists section. It shows up as a red link, so that should mean the Noisecontrollers doesn't exist. That is false, because there actually is a Noisecontrollers wikipedia page. Could somebody add Noisecontrollers in that section, because it is a notable act (Bas Oskam and Arjan Terpstra) for sure. Noisecontrollers are on the 35th place of the DJ mag top 100, that means they are the second best hardstyle dj's of the moment (Headhunterz on 17 is higher on the list). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.73.43.102 (talk) 11:17, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

The page has been deleted. See here. Shuipzv3 (talk) 11:21, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Request new segment creation: Criticism

I would like to propose the inclusion of a segment regarding the criticism of the genre thrown about on the internet, specifically YouTube, in which one can frequently view this. The progression of the genre to what it is today constantly draws fire from many, centralizing on the genre's newer sound because of its stark deviation from the old sound it originated from. Some even cry the genre is now entirely unrecognizable. These are one of those cases where you have to see and hear it to believe it. Some cite over commercialization, others the simple progression of time as the reason for the genre's change.

Many direct criticism toward the kick, the synth, melodies, and even the vocals. Criticism directed toward the kick point out its over-emphasis on the mid-range frequencies, lack of reverse bass, but primarily about how all (personally, I have not found one that does not, and I have listened to a lot) of the recently released tracks have the same kick sound. Criticism directed toward the synths point out its usually uplifting sound and transformation from simplistic detuned saw to overly complex, layered saw and square waves. Criticism directed toward the melodies oftentimes point out its euphoric and highly uplifting tune, and when combined with a synth sound that follows the mood, draws probably the most criticism of all other types of criticism. Some also criticize the vocals as too much like pop music (too pop-ish) and this places too much emphasis on the lyrical content instead of strictly the sound of the music.

I consider this topic as one deserving attention. If one were to look around on YouTube at the more recent videos of hardstyle, they can find criticism on the genre and what it has changed to. I would like to see a section regarding this topic added to the Wikipedia article as it is a part of its history.--184.46.26.181 (talk) 23:44, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I think not. You can find this criticism in every music genre if it has evolved towards a wider-known sound. For example, Dubstep. There is some fire thrown at Skrillex etc. for ruining the genre. This section is very unimportant. Elitists are everywhere. Salamibears58 (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2012 (UTC)Salamibears58

Hardstyle Wiki

Hello there. I have recently founded and I'm working hard on the Hardstyle Wiki (link: http://hardstyle.wikia.com/wiki/Hardstyle_Wiki). I would like to fans of hardstyle with some experience of wiki editing to join! And when it has enough content, I shall add it to the main Wikipedia page. I'm counting on you! --- ☣ Hardstylehunt3r ^(talk)_(contribs) 05:12, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Dubstyle - Wobble bass

I'm wondering, Dubstyle does have 2-step and breakbeat rhythms, but does dubsyle also have a wobble bass like dubstep incorporates?

Sources

http://www.lostbrotherhood.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=4426
http://barangulesen.com/archives/category/e-musical-instruments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD9D9hZmMiE

I'd appreciate some feedback, Cheers