Talk:List of urban areas in the United Kingdom

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Archives

Archive 1

Manchester - Liverpool a single metropolitain area

If Manchester and Liverpool are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both. Tetron76 (talk) 17:11, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By your logic "If St Albans and London are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both." Metropolitan areas are different than urban areas and are usually much wider. Eopsid (talk) 17:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have never heard anyone regard Liverpool and Manchester as the same place. There might be a RS which would allow the usage as a metropolitain area or may be I am simply ignorant on this area. But from wiki definition it describes an area that has to have a core. There is a clear geogrphic split in the regions, no common administrative region. There are also metropolitan universsities for both cities. As for St. Alban's there is certainly a case that it shouldn't be regarded as London either but relative size makes the Manchester-Liverpool much more questionable. 149.170.169.3 (talk) 18:12, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the ONS map used as a link for metropolitain areas Manchester and Liverpool are clearly very distinct as not even a touching boundary. Source 5 does mention Liverpool-Manchester but this is likely a cyclical reference and should not really be used as at best it is secondary source which doesn't state its primary source. Sinc eit states that it uses encyclopaedia as ref it cannot be known whether this includes wikipedia itself.149.170.169.5 (talk) 18:40, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On the ONS map of Travel to Work Areas the wolverhampton and Birmingham TTWAs have no common boundaries either but they are in the same urban area and hence same metropolitan area. That reference is really used in cases where the urban area is not mentioned in the other sources. Source 5 is used as a source on numerous other pages such as List of metropolitan areas in the Americas, List of metropolitan areas in Asia and Metropolitan areas of Mexico so I think it can be used as it's usage here is so widespread. Eopsid (talk) 19:24, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored the article to sensibility. The point isn't worth discussing, somebody is POV pushing. Until the ONS says it is a single urban area, then it isn't. In some contexts, it is useful to take them together but this is not one of them. See also North West England#Metropolitan areas. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:54, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Camborne/Redruth

Shouldn't that be on the list, According to the Camborne article it has a population of 59,100. 82.33.88.252 (talk) 01:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The source this article uses has a lower figure of 39,937. The Camborne article's source gives a 404 error so I am doubtful whether the 59,000 figure is real or not. Using the power of Google I found the working source and it seems the 59,100 figure is for the Camborn, Pool and Redruth Community Network Area which doesn seem the same thing as an urban area but the source does say that it is the largest urban conurbation in Cornwall. Eopsid (talk) 11:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What should happen to this list when the 2011 census data comes out

When the 2011 census data comes out, I propose that we rename this article as 'List of urban areas in the United Kingdom (2001)' and start a new list for 2011. The new list would take over the title of 'List of urban areas in the United Kingdom' and is not renamed with the 2011 qualifier until 2022 when the 2021 list comes out. My reason for this is that it will be interesting to see where there has been growth and where there has been decline.
Does anyone have the 1991 data? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can we just update the figures and then add a seperate column of some of the 2001 values (this could end up appearing cluttered but we could just delete some of the less useful columns) or a seperate section comparing the two.

On the subject of the 1991 data if you look at the notes section of this articles source the definition of an urban area changed slightly between 1991 and 2001 also the ONS dont have the 1991 data accessible on their website. Eopsid (talk) 17:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect that other factors (local government, definitions) have changed in ten years. I don't doubt that we will need to replace this article - I'd just rather we didn't simply over-write it with the new data. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:52, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2010 estimates and 2011 census data

Just in case anyone is interested. The ONS have estimates of the population in 2010 for most of the urban areas listed in this article. See this spreadsheet [1].

Also on this page [2] the ONS talks about when they will release the data for the urban ares. They say that they have yet to finalise the date but it appears it will be some time before or during February 2013.

On a speculative (OR-y) note. The new data should show that Newport and Cwmbran are now one urban area and so are Basildon and Wickford because they are when looking at Google maps. Eopsid (talk) 19:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I recently contacted the ONS about when the 2011 census data will be released. They replied that it will be released in Summer 2013 but that they are going to be called Built-up Areas rather than urban areas to "avoid previous inconsistency in terminology with the rural-urban definition, and provide a name that more accurately describes the geography". Eopsid (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The 2011 census data on built up areas has been released and can be viewed here [3] This is only for England and Wales. So I propose we split this article into 3 sections one for Scotland, one for Northern Ireland and another for England and Wales. What forms part of some built up areas has changed massively from the 2001 data especially for Newport, Cardiff, Sunderland and Tyneside. So I'm not sure a column showing how much the population has changed would be useful. Eopsid (talk) 13:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just updated the article with the 2011 census data. I split it into three sections as I mentioned before. Eopsid (talk) 19:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Farnborough/Aldershot Largest Settlement

This has been changed back a few times but the largest settlement in the Aldershot Urban Area is Farnborough, with a population of 57,147.

Aldershot has a population of 33,840. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This article's souce gives the following populations which differ from your claims which you no doubt got off Aldershot and Farnborough's Wikipedia articles: Aldershot Urban Area 243,344 Aldershot 58,170 Camberley/Frimley 47,123 Farnborough 57,147 Farnham 36,298 Frogmore 9,665 Sandhurst 19,546 Yateley 15,395 Eopsid (talk) 09:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This articles listings are incorrect. Rushmoor has a total population of 94,400 at the 2011 census. Farnborough's 2001 figure of 57,000 has increased, athough the figures are not yet released. This leaves 37,000 in Aldershot even if the increases only took place Aldershot, which they haven't as over 2000 homes have been built in Farnborough in the last 5 years. Further to this Farnborough has 8 local council wards to Aldeshots 5 and 3 county council wards to Aldershots 2. In the 2012 local elections 67% of votes cast were cast in Farnborough. Aldershots own wiki page list, it's population correctly in 2001 at 33,840. Farnborough is the largest settlement in the AUA by some distance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 (talk) 14:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This entire article is about the Office of National Statistics (ONS) 2001 definition of urban areas and the population figures of 2001 from ONS. We can update this only when ONS issue new urban area data from the 2011 census; I don't know if they've done that yet. When they do, we can then update the entire article, but we can't guess the figures ourselves. For one thing it's likely some of the urban areas will be redefined at that point. The ONS 2001 figures are based on "urban areas" and conurbations within them, not towns, so the figure Eopsid quoted is for the Aldershot conurbation (Aldershot subdivision of Aldershot Urban Area) in 2001, not Aldershot town in 2011. -- Dr Greg talk 18:51, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ONS as a poor source for Urban Area data

There is currently a discussion at Talk:Largest urban areas of the European Union about whether Demographia.com is a better source for UK Urban Area data than the Office for National Statistics. 19:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)