Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/National Centre for Excellence

National Centre for Excellence

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No indication of notability, or what makes it stand out from other educational institutions. Yes, I know that all high schools can be notable, but this article as it stands does not demonstrate that. Primefac (talk) 14:56, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The consensus is not that high schools (more properly secondary education institutions) "can" be notable, but rather that they almost always are. This school is pre-school to XII standard, which would make it the equivalent of an American K-12 school. The level of coverage easily found in national media should be sufficient to prove notability, but keep in mind the vast majority of Indian media is not readily available online, and often is not in English. Local and regional (likely non-English) sources are near certain to exist in addition to what can be found online with little effort. Such sources are the core to the idea that American high schools are notable, so to delete an Indian school because such sources can not be found in 2 minutes of Googling would smack of systematic bias. Pinging @Cutest Penguin: who accepted this at AfC for further input. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:11, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The implication that I recklessly throw out AfD's without first considering things like WP:INDAFD is not warranted. I actually discussed this with CutestPenguin earlier today (though I believe her exact words regarding this AfD were "good luck"). However, during that discussion she was unable to convince me that the school was notable (and I was unable to convince myself).

As a side note, the top stories in your link above do not talk about this National Centre for Excellence (except for one name drop), something I noticed when I did my own search for more sources and is probably one of the unfortunate side-effects of having a relatively common name. Primefac (talk) 20:39, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My comments are intended as a discussion of the subject's notability, not a judgement of you. (I always ping AfC acceptors if they are active.) Sorry if you took them otherwise... Thanks for pointing out INDAFD, which I was actually unaware of. Using one of the suggested links there gives a much clearer picture of notability. I do not believe we have deleted a single US high school is a long time, so my comments about systematic bias remain valid. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, INDAFD states "Schools offering Nursery— Class XII are almost certainly notable", which is what this subject is. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:12, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:12, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Primefac: At what ground you are saying that this school is not notable? Well, according to Wikipedia all high schools can be notable and this article can be kept as per NSCHOOL and NSH which say, Articles on high schools and secondary schools, with rare exceptions, have been kept when nominated at Articles for Deletion except where they fail verifiability. If the verifiability is the reason behind your nomination then there are several reliable resources on the internet that can tell you that it is notable as well as exist physically; please have a look at this TOI article, CBSE Affiliation confirmation and another TOI article published in the newspaper that proves that this school is notable. I'm not sure if it can be considered to reliable but the facts and information can be verified from here. Cheers! — CutestPenguin^Hangout 06:24, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -The Google search results coming up with school name as keyword are not really related to the school anyway. They are talking some other thing about. If we are here to establish GNG or ORG standard, then the subject beyond any doubt falls flat on those grounds. The school can only be proved to be exist by few passing mentions in independent, reliable sources.

Make it straight. If we go by WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES, #2, -then it should be kept and if ORG, -then deleted. What are we on? Anupmehra -Let's talk! 11:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Did you see my second link which turns up articles such "School shuts shop" that are clearly about the school itself, as opposed to the many about students and such? This coverage would certainly to sufficient to "keep" an article about an American high school. To enforce higher standards on an Indian school (whose best sources probably can't be found online) would be systematic bias. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:41, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, but I just had a glance. I have earlier tried the search engine to find sources and one that I got, cited in the article. I'm not a fan of WP:OSE and at this time still would like to maintain my neutral stand on this one. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 08:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey those articles are of another school called National Center for Excellence in sarjapur road and not in Malleshpalaya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahulmdinesh (talk • contribs) 17:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's the same organization, as should be clear from the fact that people at that location were told to go to this one. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:46, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

delete per Rahulmdinesh above. There is a serious lack of independent coverage here. The first ref is entirely trivial. The second is simply a rote registration and per WP:MILL it's not encyclopedic for an organisation to simply exist and no more than that. Also see WP:NOTDIR. The third ref was a bit more substantial, a comment on a very small school that appears to have closed suddenly and disappeared with the money. However that's two years old (if it were really notable I'd expect to see later coverage too) and Rahulmdinesh points out that it's not even the same school. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Pick a random high school in the United States and do a similar search (Here is one in my city [1]) and you will see the coverage for National Centre for Excellence is quite similiar... and most local Indian sources are not online, unlike most US local sources. Why then is the US high school notable, while the Indian secondary school is not? (And don't bother to say the US school isn't notable, consensus is quite clear that US high schools are all notable.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:46, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"consensus is quite clear that US high schools are all notable" Firstly it's not always clear, secondly that is never an excuse for failing GNG. WP:NHS is quite clear on that. It's a generalisation that so few US high schools will be unable to pass GNG that there's little point in nominating them for deletion (There will be some arguing, someone will be pressured into searching, they will find something, it closes as keep). However that's not at all the same thing as saying, "Non-notable organisations with no sourcing skip around GNG because they just happen to be schools". Andy Dingley (talk) 19:38, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, OUTCOMES couldn't be more clear "Most independently accredited degree-awarding institutions and high schools are being kept except when zero independent sources can be found to prove that the institution actually exists." This is because we "know" secondary sources exist, even if we can't find them immediately. And you conveniently dodged my question about how the RS coverage of this Indian school is materially different than the RS coverage of the random US high school I search for. Here is the answer - there isn't any. Both have "routine" coverage and nothing super in depth. If National Centre for Excellence is non-notable, then most US high schools are non-notable because the coverage is the same. However, consensus is that this level of coverage is sufficient for schools. (That is, it is sufficiently "significant" to meet the GNG.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:22, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Then what about other schools in Bangalore like Jyothy Kendriya Vidyalaya, Little Flower Public School,Insight Academy School Bangalore and many more..... Why delete only National Centre for Excellence¿¿¿ if this case is true then there over 10,000 to be deleted which is a loss for Wikipedia and These schools i gave as examples don't even have proper referencing. This school at least has 3 to 4 references. So there is no need to delete this article. And the examples I gave are just 3 out of 100s of schools in Bangalore. There are over 10,000 CBSE schools in India. So stop debating on the deletion of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahulmdinesh (talk • contribs) 11:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a secondary school per longstanding precedent and consensus. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:50, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per essay all high schools can be notable and NSCHOOL. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 15:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone. Can I remove the delete stuff from the article?