User talk:Jbhunley

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TemplateScript

Hello Jbhunley. While updating TemplateScript in your common.js page, I noticed that it was disabled. I wasn't sure from the edit history if that was deliberate, so I left it inactive. Let me know if you'd like me to fix it for you. :) —Pathoschild 22:49, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

User:Pathoschild Please do enable the common.js. I am not sure how it was disabled or what to do about it. Thank you. Jbhunley (talk) 04:49, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Let me know if you notice any problems or have questions. :) —Pathoschild 00:26, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Jbhunley (talk) 01:28, 31 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Replied and discussed per your comments. Montanabw^(talk) 00:38, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging for the splashed white article. Montanabw^(talk) 04:07, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ping and note new edit with comment. (No need for talkback to me, I'm on daily and have it wathlisted) Montanabw^(talk) 22:30, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Civility Barnstar
	For a most useful and congenial discussion of content at Splashed white that led to improvements in the article. This is what collaboration on wikipedia should be! Montanabw^(talk) 09:57, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Montanabw: Thank you! JBH (talk) 00:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I responded to a message you left me

Hello, Jbhunley. You have new messages at K2trf's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Answer to question by ArtemisOfMars

@ArtemisOfMars: In answer to the question you asked here about opening a SPI. Yes you can open a SPI into those users. InstantSnapFeedback has already admitted to previously editing as Salivasnapshot. You can find the diff at BLPN just after I outlined why I thought you both had a COI. If you can prove that they are not Braunden Reed you can get the RichardBrandonReed account blocked for username impersonation. If you can link all three you might be able to have an admin take some kind of action against ISF. My guess is you will need to go through WP:OTRS to avoid WP:OUTING issues.

Before you open the SPI you need to read and understand what evidence is needed then collect the diffs. Without diffs a SOCK accusation is a personal attack. If you have off-wiki evidence you need to go through OTRS.With ISF the SOCKing seems to be a smaller issue to me than the possible impersonation issue. JBH (talk) 21:05, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JBH I will try to find these evidences and put them in my request. I found some relevant information on Facebook, is it something that I can use here on Wikipedia or not? What I found is a conversation about the band's article on Wikipedia between some people and it is dated the same day they started to "attack" Polaroid Kiss article on Wikipedia. Moreover, they only edited the same information: Steve Hewitt. I will work on this and submit what I found to your approval, but it's true that I have to be careful about WP:OUTING issues. I'm going to read the documentation you linked and see what I can do. ArtemisOfMars (talk) 22:34, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JBH What Artifice of Mars is referring to is a group on facebook called 'Ex Polaroid Kiss Members'. Feel free to read any conversations in there and contact the members if you have any questions about this issue, as I can assure you that any screenshots Artifice of Mars sends to Wikipedia will be heavily edited.InstantSnapFeedback (talk)

@InstantSnapFeedback: I looked at that group when the accusations came up at BLPN it is a closed group so I have no idea of its contents. I do not use Facebook much and while I edit under my own name I am not comfortable exposing of-wiki accounts with a view, even if small, into my real life while I am trying to work on an ongoing dispute so I did not join to look. Since the URL at BLPN links to your actual identity I will find the edit and have the people at WP:OVERSITE purge that link. JBH (talk) 00:26, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JBH Thank you. I appreciate that.InstantSnapFeedback (talk)

@ArtemisOfMars: Do not put any off-wiki information or other's personal information on Wikipedia. They take privacy here very seriously. If you have relevant information, and in this case the only thing that I think would be relevant is proof that the RichardBrandonReed account is being used by someone other than Richard Brandon Reed, you need to contact the WMF offline either via email or via OTRS. They will tell you how to proceed. I am not comfortable dealing with personally identifiable information, nor do I want to be in the position of being an advocate for either of you. I see many issues related to Polaroid Kiss that have been going on for a long time. As I work on this clean up I hope to be able to maintain a working relationship with each of you but I will and can only make my editorial decisions based on Wikipedia policies and guidelines. I can not even, in most circumstances, "do what is right" if it is in violation of policy. JBH (talk) 00:26, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

For both of you, since we seem to be communicating ok here, please allow me to make a comment on the SPIs. Both Wiki-culture in general, and I in particular, tend to be very forgiving of past transgressions on-wiki. The policy here is that blocks are preventative not punitive. We have editors here who have made major missteps and are still editing here. If you have been SOCKing admit to it, list all of your previous accounts on your user page and promise not to do it again (and don't). COI and even limited impersonation can be handled all that is needed is to admit it, say "sorry I did not understand the policies - I do now and I will follow them from now on". It is best, in my opinion, to ask an admin to block the old accounts and I would say it is required for an impersonation account. After that you are an editor in good standing and you will have gained credibility with the community because you backed away from the cliff.

ArtemisOfMars, I know you deny being a SOCK, that is what SPI is for. If they clear you I will apologize, that is why I did not accuse you and just let the accusation hang. InstantSnapFeedback when I asked if you edited as Salivasnapshot you said yes, that got you a lot of respect in my book so I will just ask; Did you edit under RichardBrandonReed?

@JBH No, I did not edit under RichardBrandonReed.InstantSnapFeedback (talk)

Cleaning up the Polaroid Kiss mess be much easier with the two of you working with me than with than having out-of-policy editors working against me. So neither of you are taken aback I will tell you the next thing I am going to do is nominate Polaroid Kiss for deletion at AfD. It was my opinion from my first edit at BLPN that it was non-notable. I can not PROD it until the page protection expires but I will let you see the deletion proposal so you have a few more days to look for viable sources to improve the article. I spent a lot of time looking for good sources because I know this article means a lot to you and others but the sources just are not there. JBH (talk) 00:26, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

From the Euromaidan Talk page

Too Much Advocacy and Too Little Neutral Point of View

The Euromaidan article is extremely problematic. It fails to conform to the three basic article policies: (1) no original research, (2) neutral point of view, and (3) verifiability.

The article covers a highly politicized issue on which there are several sides of the story, and none of the sides appear to comport well with verifiable facts.

Recently I deleted two paragraphs that contained a narrative that advocates just one of the several non-factual versions of this issue. The text in question was completely unsupported by references.

I also made two minor editorial corrections where I could see that point of view could be easily removed by simple word changes.

For instance, the original text said "Many protesters joined because of the violent dispersal of protesters..." Calling the police action violent is pejorative and reflects one side of the story. Another side would say that the police were responding to a provocation and were seeking to restore law and order.

I thought that a POV-neutral way of describing the incident would be to use the term "forceful dispersal" instead of violent dispersal.

Similarly, a sentence beginning with "Escalating violence from government forces..." seemed to reflect the same point of view that is in contention. For the sake of neutrality, I changed that to "Escalating use of physical control by government forces..." In both cases, my edits maintained the undisputed description of the events, but without the pejorative words used originally.

And, finally, in a later section the narrative discusses an action of the parliament. It said that the body "allegedly impeached the president." That suggests that there has been no authoritative determination made about whether the president was really impeached or not. But this is an instance where there is irrefutable evidence that the president was not impeached. I modified the text accordingly, and provided references to reliable sources.

After having done all that, Volunteer Marek, citing "POV pushing, weasel-ing and removal of relevant text," undid all of my editorial corrections.

In my opinion this article in its present state is an affront to the facts of the matter. It is a narrative of advocacy.

The article needs to be more factual and less partisan.

One of the challenges in achieving that is the unfortunate amount of media bias that has manifested in covering the topic. There are vast differences in media storylines depending upon which country's media is doing the reporting.

This mainstream bias means that simply citing media reports will not establish something as factual. The media reports themselves would have to be fact checked before they could be relied upon.

But if there is some reasonable way to move toward fixing the present article's problems, I'd be glad to help in a modest way. (Although, I must say that I have no appetite for going back and forth with individuals like Volunteer Marek who apparently wish to preserve a distorted description of the issue.)

But are there others who might be motivated to join in to remove POV rhetoric from this article?

If not, perhaps Wikipedia readers would be better served if this article were deleted entirely.

Comments please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tikva2009 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Following the above Talk post of January 14, and having heard nothing in response to my invitation for comments on the policy violations after more than a week, it seemed to me that there was no controversy over the suggested deletion. Subsequently, I posted a notice for deletion. Then at 03:41, 23 January 2015‎ Jbhunley deleted my proposed deletion saying "No, Just no. This is an improper use of PROD." Jbhunley did not address the policy violations that I asserted. I also received a notice from Jbhunley that said, "The template you used is for non-controversial deletions only. I have removed it from the Euromaidan article. This is a reminder that Euromaidan is subject to the discretionary sanctions you were previously notified of. JBH (talk) 04:57, 23 January 2015 (UTC)" Can someone tell me whether Jbhunldy is also subject to discretionary sanctions for deleting a legitimate deletion notice? Tikva2009 (talk) 04:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)tikva2009 BoldItalic Signature and timestampLinkEmbedded file AdvancedSpecial charactersHelpCite == Too Much Advocacy and Too Little Neutral Point of View == The Euromaidan article is extremely problematic. It fails to conform to the three basic article policies: (1) no original research, (2) neutral point of view, and (3) verifiability. The article covers a highly politicized issue on which there are several sides of the story, and none of the sides appear to comport well with verifiable facts. Recently I deleted two paragraphs that contained a narrative that advocates just one of the several non-factual versions of this issue. The text in question was completely unsupported by references. I also made two minor editorial corrections where I could see that point of view could be easily removed by simple word changes. For instance, the original text said "Many protesters joined because of the violent dispersal of protesters..." Calling the police action violent is pejorative and reflects one side of the story. Another side would say that the police were responding to a provocation and were seeking to restore law and order. I thought that a POV-neutral way of describing the incident would be to use the term "forceful dispersal" instead of violent dispersal. Similarly, a sentence beginning with "Escalating violence from government forces..." seemed to reflect the same point of view that is in contention. For the sake of neutrality, I changed that to "Escalating use of physical control by government forces..." In both cases, my edits maintained the undisputed description of the events, but without the pejorative words used originally. And, finally, in a later section the narrative discusses an action of the parliament. It said that the body "allegedly impeached the president." That suggests that there has been no authoritative determination made about whether the president was really impeached or not. But this is an instance where there is irrefutable evidence that the president was not impeached. I modified the text accordingly, and provided references to reliable sources. After having done all that, Volunteer Marek, citing "POV pushing, weasel-ing and removal of relevant text," undid all of my editorial corrections. In my opinion this article in its present state is an affront to the facts of the matter. It is a narrative of advocacy. The article needs to be more factual and less partisan. One of the challenges in achieving that is the unfortunate amount of media bias that has manifested in covering the topic. There are vast differences in media storylines depending upon which country's media is doing the reporting. This mainstream bias means that simply citing media reports will not establish something as factual. The media reports themselves would have to be fact checked before they could be relied upon. But if there is some reasonable way to move toward fixing the present article's problems, I'd be glad to help in a modest way. (Although, I must say that I have no appetite for going back and forth with individuals like Volunteer Marek who apparently wish to preserve a distorted description of the issue.) But are there others who might be motivated to join in to remove POV rhetoric from this article? If not, perhaps Wikipedia readers would be better served if this article were deleted entirely. Comments please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tikva2009 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 14 January 2015 (UTC) Following the above Talk post of January 14, and having heard nothing in response to my invitation for comments on the policy violations after more than a week, it seemed to me that there was no controversy over the suggested deletion. Subsequently, I posted a notice for deletion. Then at 03:41, 23 January 2015‎ Jbhunley deleted my proposed deletion saying "No, Just no. This is an improper use of PROD." Jbhunley did not address the policy violations that I asserted. I also received a notice from Jbhunley that said, "The template you used is for non-controversial deletions only. I have removed it from the Euromaidan article. This is a reminder that Euromaidan is subject to the discretionary sanctions you were previously notified of. JBH (talk) 04:57, 23 January 2015 (UTC)" Can someone tell me whether Jbhunldy is also subject to discretionary sanctions for deleting a legitimate deletion notice? Tikva2009 (talk) 04:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)tikva2009[reply]

Jbhunley, please explain yourself. Thanks. Tikva2009 (talk) 05:31, 23 January 2015 (UTC)tikva2009[reply]

 – — ° ′ ″ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §   Sign your posts on talk pages: Tikva2009 (talk) 05:31, 23 January 2015 (UTC)   Cite your sources: Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).[reply]

Edit summary (Briefly describe your changes) Preview of edit summary: (→‎Too Much Advocacy and Too Little Neutral Point of View)

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@Tikva2009: Jbhunley was completely correct in removing the prod notice. You, however, are close to being sanctioned. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 05:35, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]